Looking for advice about church

F

farshort Oct 3, 2008

I hope this isn't thought of as airing out dirty laundry,but I have been wrestling with this for a few years.

I go to a non-denominational church,and I have had several issues with it.For one,there is "prophesy" constantly coming forth from different sources,none of which has come to pass.

Also,there seems to be no hunger for holiness.Sure there is lip service given to the subject,but no noticeable striving for it.And don't get me wrong,I love my pastor,and I pray for him every day,we are pretty good friends,but he seems to be lax in the leadership department,meaning he is very non-confrontational to a fault.

It breaks my heart to say these things,but I am torn between staying because of my love for the bretheren,and the need for spiritual growth,both for me and my family.Since I am the head of the household,and have a great responsibility for my wife and children,I feel like we need to move on.

There are other issues,such as no set doctrine.I understand that we are not all going to be exactly the same,and I have much room for grace[as I should],but although we are not all on the same page,sometimes I wonder if we are in the same book.For lack of a better term,it's a literal dog's breakfast,which seems to me would be devestating for any new belivers [which are few and far between].

Anyway,so any words of encouragement or advice is appreciated.Again,my love for the people is what has kept us there this long. :cry:

J

JoanM Oct 3, 2008

You must hear from God. You must. Your post sounds as though you have a divided head/heart. Are there any there that agree with you (doctrine, Word of God, born-again, heart-cry)? Do you pray with them, study the Bible with them? Did God plant you there? What has changed? God kept me in a body sliding into appostacy (for real) as I begged Him to let me go. 18 months of prayer with 5 to 9 other Christians. The body separated from that denomination, without a split and the membership grew. I thought it should have made the secular newspapers. I witnessed God, doing the impossible. I know a man who was born again in a body with very few appearent believers, who then lead a Bible study. God used him in presenting the gospel to maybe 30. A few left after a few months. It was disuptive to the larger congregation. God led all the rest out when the leadership made that Bible study extreemly difficult to continue. Just my thoughts. Several on this site testify that God led them individualy out of a fellowship and they needed years to recover, restore clairity, Love, balance, etc.

The reason you need to know that God has called/put you anywhere is that there is always a reason (your growth and other's in Christ). When things get hard, ~~[u]~~the certainty of the call[/u] is central. Ask any missionary. Are you, as the head of your family, leading them or or is this body leading them?

No simple answers ~~[u]~~until you hear from God[/u]. If you really loved me, you would tell me the Truth in that Love. How have you expressed your Love for the brethern? I am not asking these questions for you to answer here. They are just things to consider before God. Others can suggest other considerations. You are not the first to ask this question here. Maybe you could search for threads?

Praying.

B

boG Oct 3, 2008

I want to give some advice but I had some quick questions.

You had said:

Also,there seems to be no hunger for holiness.Sure there is lip service given to the subject,but no noticeable striving for it.

Is there deliberate and obvious sin in the church (think of the church of Corinth: divisions, drunkeness, sexual immorality, etc.)?

What exactly do you mean by hungering for holiness? What would you like to see in your church that would be classified to you as being holy-minded?

seems to be lax in the leadership department,meaning he is very non-confrontational to a fault.

You say there is "lip service" about holiness and "prophecy" in the church; does the pastor also have private counselling and home visitations?

What would you in particular like to see your pastor, as a leader, do?

such as no set doctrine

You said the church is non-denominational. Is the church new: and the pastor just hasn't put together an official doctrinal statement?

Yea, I would (nicely) press him for a doctrinal statement also.

sermonindex Oct 3, 2008

We dont have a tremendous amount of information to work with here, and thats why people are asking these questions.

I will say this tho... you are the head of your family, and God has given you a great responsibility. Especially when it comes to the spiritual growth of your children. If this church is having a negative effect on your children, and on your family in general, then the only option is to leave. Your family comes first BEFORE your loyalty to a body of believers.

And of course, the best advise any of us can give you is... pray pray pray.

Also recognize that nowhere in the Bible are we ever exhorted to stay in a "fellowship" where there is false doctrine and false prophets. No where.

In fact, we are ~~[b]~~commanded[/b] to seperate from them.

Krispy

A

alan4jc Oct 3, 2008

http://www.braveheartedgospel.com/

Watch the video by Carter Conlon

The issue at stake is Gods glory

H

HeartSong Oct 3, 2008

http://www.braveheartedgospel.com/ Watch the video by Carter Conlon The issue at stake is Gods glory

Oh my, this about broke my heart.
Oh God, give me courage . . .

I

InTheLight Oct 4, 2008

Sounds like you are dissatisfied with this church. Are you thoroughly dissatisfied with yourself?

In Christ,

Ron

sermonindex Oct 4, 2008

Hello, Farshort:

The Bible tells us that in these last days false prophets and false teachers (Pastors) will be the norm. 2 Peter Chapter 2 has many things to say about false Prophets and false Teachers that are helpful.

If prophecy is not fulfilled, you have false prophets in your Church. If your Pastor is not concerned about this, and lets it continue, rather than addressing it, then at the very least he has no Spiritual discernment.

Since sound Doctrine is not being taught, then why would you want to continue at this Church? As the Family Priest, you are responsible for your wife and children and yourself. If you are not being fed, then your wife and children are not being fed and it is time to move on.

It is time to find a Church that will meet the needs of your family and yourself. That is a hard thing to find today. Typically Charismatic Churches, that believe in the gifts of the Spirit are extremely weak on sound doctrine. If you find a Church that is Doctrinally sound, typically that Church believes that the gifts of the Spirit were only given to the early Church, and are rejected as the "real deal" today.

It is a fine line, but look at it as an adventure. The internet has a tremendous amount of information available today. Many Churches have websites that go into great detail about their position on Doctrine and Spiritual Gifts. Good hunting!

False Prophets:

Deuteronomy 18
20. But any prophet who falsely claims that his message is from me, shall die. And any prophet who claims to give a message from other gods must die.'
21. If you wonder, `How shall we know whether the prophecy is from the Lord or not?'
22. this is the way to know:~~[b]~~ If the thing he prophesies doesn't happen, it is not the Lord who has given him the message; he has made it up himself. You have nothing to fear from him.[/b]

Has the Bible warned us about false prophets in the last days?

Yes it has:

24. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25. Behold, I have told you before.
Matthew 24:24-25

Jesus has warned us in advance, false prophets would be here, they would look good, show great signs and wonders, for one reason: TO DECEIVE THE VERY ELECT.

1.\tBeloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1John 4

~~[b]~~Should a sincere person follow a false prophet for any reason?

[size=x-small]No,[/size]

"...the punishment of the prophet shall be even as the punishment of him that seeketh unto him."
Ezekiel 14:10[/b]

Walter
:-D

farshort wrote:
I hope this isn't thought of as airing out dirty laundry,but I have been wrestling with this for a few years.
I go to a non-denominational church,and I have had several issues with it.For one,there is "prophesy" constantly coming forth from different sources,none of which has come to pass.
Also,there seems to be no hunger for holiness.Sure there is lip service given to the subject,but no noticeable striving for it.And don't get me wrong,I love my pastor,and I pray for him every day,we are pretty good friends,but he seems to be lax in the leadership department,meaning he is very non-confrontational to a fault.
It breaks my heart to say these things,but I am torn between staying because of my love for the bretheren,and the need for spiritual growth,both for me and my family.Since I am the head of the household,and have a great responsibility for my wife and children,I feel like we need to move on.
There are other issues,such as no set doctrine.I understand that we are not all going to be exactly the same,and I have much room for grace[as I should],but although we are not all on the same page,sometimes I wonder if we are in the same book.For lack of a better term,it's a literal dog's breakfast,which seems to me would be devestating for any new belivers [which are few and far between].
Anyway,so any words of encouragement or advice is appreciated.Again,my love for the people is what has kept us there this long. :cry:

J

jsisrl Oct 4, 2008

alan4jc wrote:
http://www.braveheartedgospel.com/
Watch the video by Carter Conlon
The issue at stake is Gods glory

9-11 Dream just a few minutes before:
http://home1.gte.net/web23vhn/dream.htm

F

farshort Oct 4, 2008

Yes, i am thoroughly dissatisfied with myself.I feel like a complete and utter failure as a Christian,sometimes I hate to refer to myself as such,as it would seem to bring dishonour to Christ to refer to myself that way.

I have trouble praying because I don't know what I could possibly have to say to God.I know that it is only through Christ that I could have the privilege of coming to Him,but I cannot get around the idea that what does one say to someone who is like Him,holy beyond my ability to comprehend,more powerful than anything,the ultimate in power,and knowledge of me to the point that He would know if I were lying even if I did not know.For all I know everything I could say to Him, besides praise, may be a lie.

Though I know that I have access to Him through the shed blood of Christ,I am still filled with dread at the thought of being in His presence,since I am at the opposite end of the spectrum from Him.

I am very grateful to Him for the things He has delivered me from,which are many,but there is so much more to go,and my ability to repent seems pathetically weak.That is why I am so torn about the church I attend.Though there are many faults in it,so there are many faults in myself,and somehow I feel like God has not deserted me,so how can I desert them?

There is much more that could be said, but I feel this is enough for now.

M

murrcolr Oct 5, 2008

farshort wrote:
Also,there seems to be no hunger for holiness.Sure there is lip service given to the subject,but no noticeable striving for it.And don't get me wrong,I love my pastor,and I pray for him every day,we are pretty good friends,but he seems to be lax in the leadership department,meaning he is very non-confrontational to a fault.

Have you spoken to the Pastor?

My advice would be to pray until you get the break through and when God speaks to you. You do excatly what God has said.

I

itg3712 Oct 5, 2008

Some thoughts...

As you attend the Sunday service(s) and hear the preaching and follow the announcements, ask yourself if you've prayed enough for the pastor and the church that week? Will you feel your responsibility for the quality of what you witness this week?

Every church is moving in a direction towards either greater apostasy or greater revival. I've seen a large amount of apostasy and not enough revival. How can you be an influence towards revival? What are your risks before men if you do more? What are your risks before God if you don't?

1 Timothy 2:2 exhorts that we pray for those in authority that "we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty". Are godliness and honesty growing in your own life and in your local congregation? Are you mourning and lamenting in private prayer over the lack of it? Are you praying for an increase in devotion, love, righteousness and honesty?

Know that the primary feeding of your family needs to take place through the family. We can hear a sermon every week and go to Sunday School classes weekly but we won't know our Bibles well unless we study them on our own. Our prayers needs to abound way beyond what we're likely to do at church prayer meetings. Are you feeding yourself and are you feeding your wife and family? Can you bring that together? How well will your wife and family give time and attention to seeking God in prayer and the Word? Are your wife and you agreeing well together in prayer for the growth of each individual family member? How is each individual family member growing inside your local congregation? Who is doing best? Who is struggling the most?

Do your wife and children have their hearts with you so that they will support you in staying and support you if you need to leave? I'm sure that they have relationships with people that they enjoy where they are. They will miss those if you make a change. Do you risk rebellion and discontent within your family if you make a change?

In the end, are you being faithful and good so that we can hear the commendation of "well done" on the Solemn Day?

Are you being salty enough that others around you have a choice to receive or reject? Is the Kingdom of God being expanded through your service through the local church? Does your local church have outreach?

If you raise your profile and testify to more truth within your local church, will they reject you and will you need to "shake off the dust from your feet" as a testimony against them (Matthew 10:14)?

"When they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over (all) the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come" (Matthew 10:23).

These are principles that I've believed that I've followed. My outcomes are not as good as I've wanted. My prayers, confessions, supplications, laments, seekings for wisdom and strenght and for His Face and Grace continue.