The Outlaw's Prayer

I agree with you my brother. To be honest, reading those words made me think about Sheldon's What would Jesus Do book. Man does it make me sick. But you know something brother, in reality i doubt that such people are trully God's children. What sadens my heart the most is that those people who look like Christians, but indeed aren't, give this foul notion of what Christianity is all about, thus many are daily being deceived and in turn end up thinking themselves to be right with God, when in reallity they are a thousand miles away. Brother iam a nobody to judge anyone, but sureley Jesus wolud not act the way so many so called Christians are acting.

By the way, it is good to be back in sermonidex. God bless you my brother.

I like it.

[i]"Lord, I know I don't look like much, but I didn't think you'd mind. I just wanted to be with your people, Lord: it's been a long time.[/i]

There is an admittance woven throughout that at least is honest enough. Perhaps an aside but praying this morning had this verse jump up in my thoughts, partly due to the present circumstances of this economy and all the associated woes - The corruption and manipulation, the wonder of how much fear is driving all this, how culpable we may all be, what my own contribution is and so on ... Not sure if this happens to others but often a verse will come to mind a bit tortured or backwards -

[i]In the days of prosperity - consider[/i]

Seemed paradoxical, when it is really stated;

[i]In the day of prosperity be joyful, but in the day of adversity consider: God also hath set the one over against the other, to the end that man should find nothing after him.[/i] Ecc 7:14

How extremely sad!!!!!

It kind of reminded me of a happenstance ... A homeless man went downstairs where there was a church board meeting, while upstairs we were having a prayer meeting. The pastor brought the man up to my husband and said, 'He'd like to know about the Lord, do you think you could help him out, we're busy downstairs with church business' ...

Of course it was a great blessing for us as a small group to introduce this man who had NEVER heard the name of Christ to salvation. It was a powerful and wonderful moment!

The one thing I consider is that regardless of what churches do, the churches are made up of people, who need to be aware of what is going on around them. There should be someone who is aware enough of what is going on that they would see what's up and go outside the doors and sit on the steps and minister the gospel to the unconventional. It comes down to the individual responsibility of the person who names themself after the name of Christ...regardless of what the "church" does.

As I have heard on more than one occasion from a preacher friend of mine: "Even if everyone around you is messed up and not living the Christian life as they ought to, what does that have to do with you? What are YOU doing? You are responsible for the light that is within you. You stand even if every one else is bowing down to the idol."

Lord, help us to see how You see!

Just a thought...
Love in Christ,
Lori

I'd sure hate to be in this crowd.

This is a timely subject for me right now.

The age old problem for the religous crowd. Some start out fine. Some long ago were born of the spirit but have hardened their hearts. Some were only born of religious family names that are on the plaques hanging around the building. They are embattled and mistrusting. They sing hymns of grace but are always plotting ways to keep undesirables away. As Jeremiah put it They ready their tongues like a drawn bow; with lying, and not with truth. They are the church-owners association, and sinners can only be a part of their church after they somehow manage to lose all their tattoos, body mods, facial hair, and also get a decent paying job.

They may represent the church-owners association, but they are not representative of Christ.

To the wornded and brokenhearted,
whom the world has disowned
there's a savior, a man of sorrows
flowing mercy from his wounds.

To the guilty whose held captive
by the chains of yesterday,
their's forgiveness like a river
that can wash your stains away.

To all the hungry and the thirsty,
come to the table of the Lord
and know that there are no strangers
in the household of God

To the fearful and the doubting
who've forgotten their first love
there is a father and he's waiting
to welcome you back to home.

To all the hungry and the thirsty,
come to the table of the Lord
and know that there are no strangers
in the household of God.

Blessings,

MC

I would like to think that if y'all hadnt been there the pastor would have taken the time himself to lead the man to the Lord.

It is a great possibility, and whether he would have or not it was the statement that he made was so telling, and yes, I do believe it is an indictment on the "church" as a whole.

Plus I believe that we were there and that it was an appointment set up by God. It was a blessing to us and it was a blessing to him, and what the pastor did was a part of that.

So many churches today are so program driven that they are no longer Holy Spirit led

Yes, I do think that one of the issues is that due to costs and expenses, focus on attendance and income have made the business of the church more of a corporation based business. I'm not trying to knock anything, it just seems to have been a trend for quite awhile.

And one of the issues within any corporation is what is their business based on? What drives their business, what brings in the needed income? And when customer service becomes such an important factor: the "customers" time, their convienience, and their "satisfaction" becomes all inclusive.

Which seems to be at odds with the "program" of being led of the Holy Spirit.

I have been to churches where what the Holy Spirit wanted to do was most important; but the services sometimes lasted for 3 to 4 hours- they were blessed to us, there were people saved, there was a sense of fellowship missing within a majority of "church businesses", there was opportunity for other members of the body to exercise their gifts and talents. But some people didn't like to visit much due to the long services.

It really is a wonderful thing when God runs the churches business!

Just one perspective.
Blessings,
Lori

One thing our "fast food" microwave generation knows nothing about is "tarrying". And I'll be the first to admit that I'm not good at it either. But we sometimes need to take our watches off... forget about the game on TV (set your DVR... lol) ... and wait upon the Lord.

AMEN!!!
I think that has something to do with the "cost of revival" and our struggle, in this fast paced society of counting God's time with more value than our own.

We all struggle with time, with our own perceptions of other people, of our perceptions of "church", with our desires to place God as first in our lives.

Yet, it is an absolute necessity to allow God to take the splinters and/or beams out of our eyes so we can see with a clear eye how to walk in the Spirit of God and see things as God sees them.

[i]Well you know we run around to buy the latest thing we need; oh, and I would be the first to say I'm guilty. But can we go the second mile to give a cup in Jesus name? Oh, you know we need to ask ourselves these questions..
For God so loved the world that He gave,
He gave and gave,
He still gives today;
and the only thing He came to take away,
was our sin
so we could all begin to love His way.[/i]
(A Kelly Willard song)

Blessings,
Lori

I did a search on the web concerning Johnny Paycheck. I feel real sad about this man. He seemed to have a sense of what is right but failed to appropriate it into his own heart and life. Ditto to George Carlin. No one can write or speak like this unless they have a profound sense of righteousness.

So sad...

ginnyrose

There's many, many songs that touch upon this very thing: the acceptance/refusal and/or hypocrisy by church goers. Frankly, it doesn't move me one way or another because these complaints are so banal and cliche and often voiced by people who have no desire at all to know God. At the end of the day, it's not about which church accepted which whino, etc. Knowing God isn't at all contingent upon being accepted by a local congregation with open arms, and I don't even believe such a thing can help a man know God. All it really demonstrates is the reality of a non-judgmental and philanthropic body of believers (which we should be). In truth, there are many churches like this, ministries which are unassuming - and, of course, there are others that aren't. The ones that aren't are the ones that get songs written about them to make people believe all of them are like that. It's all subjective, anyhow, and ultimately interpreted by the seeker. I have seen people bend over backwards to accomodate a poor sinner who is down and out, and the first time the believer fails to give more money or empathy, the believer is now a hypocrite. Suddenly, the sinner is able to call to mind a plethora of Bible characters who wouldn't "treat me this way" or - as in this song and a hundred others - would be treated the same way on account of their poverty and long hair and sandals and camel skin and leather belts, [i]ad nauseum.[/i]

It's a wordly lament that really doesn't hold clout with a spiritual man or woman. I do not turn away those whom the Lord brings, but I also will not overly preoccupy myself with appeasing the needs of a man or woman who just wants money or sympathy and is not after God and repentance. I do not know of any true, God-filled believer who would turn away a poor man on account of his/her appearance. The body of believers in all these songs represents a disingenious assembly, a decoy church in an attempt to soil the true church, and often the songwriter doesn't even know what he/she is doing. Elvis Presley is a very bad representitive of Christianity, so is Merle Haggard and Cash and Paycheck and George Jones and Waylon Jennings and everyone else who wrote songs about followers of Jesus and the church, whether in a positive or negative light. How desperately we need discernment in these matters. These types of songs are written by men who do not know God - men who are enemies of God by wicked works and alienated from Him in their minds - and yet they would subconsciously shift the liability of their state, in part, to a certain hypocritical (and oftentimes hypothetical) body of believers, in order to get woe from their godless listeners. Paycheck probably wrote this song to elicit some sappy pathos in a good 'ole country western tradition (even if he had sincere intentions), but it doesn't work with me. The song got its airplay and he and the band went right along chugging the beers and cashing the royalty paychecks (no pun intended).

Sorry to ruffle things up here a bit, Steve. You know I love you. I await your response, brother; we can go toe-to-toe on this topic if you like (I draw the line at two-steppin, tho)!

:-D

Brother Paul

On the other hand we have reached a day in this church age where people have lost respect for God and his people. I believe when people get saved there is such a change in their life that causes them to want to do better.

I don’t think there is anything wrong with wearing a suit and a tie for the leadership of an assembly or for anyone else for that matter. I do think it is wrong to have a better than thou attitude. I think that if a truly born again believer is dressing nicely and he sees someone who is dressing poorly, different than him, or even expensive attire he/she should be able to see past the outward appearance with the love of God toward our fellowman.

I believe we as true Christians should be showing the love of God toward people no matter how worldly or ungodly they dress. I also think it is a shame for people who call themselves Christians and yet not care about their outward appearance. We are ambassadors for the King and our outward image should reflect his holy character within.

I think it is sad when we let people with a self righteous attitude reflect on our behavior as true Christians. I hear people say well God don't care how you dress because it is only the heart that counts. This is not true for we have been bought with a price and we are His temple and we are to glorify God in our spirit and body.

Maybe you could compose something Paul.

Could be something in reply to Mr Paycheck song. :-P

Many churches throw money at these things. They have ministries to the poor and widows and prisons, but the closest most believers get to an actual orphan or prisoner is a check they drop in the plate. Most believers dont get their hands dirty.

I agree totally. But is this really the concern of Johnny Paycheck? There are myriads of programs and groups (secular and otherwise) that cater to this. Hollywood celebrities give millions to Sri Lanka and Indonesia and tons of money and clothes and food flow from churches in the United States into Mexico and Central and South America. What are his qualms? It seems in this song he was slighted because he saw stained glass windows that cost a fortune (they do!) and a hungry whino sleeping in the gutter.

This shouldn't be the real focus of religion, though I can certainly see it from an unconverted point of view. It's basically a "Look! Hypocrisy!" charge by a man seeking to shift culpability. What concern is it of his how much stained glass windows cost and the ratio of the poor versus the amount? Why doesn't he have the same concern over sin and the condition of his own soul? We who are the sons and daughters of God know of all the hypocrisy that masquerades itself in the supposed "church", I'm really not impressed or enlightened or care to "amen" a man who doesn't care a hill of beans for what really counts - Jesus Christ and his own eternal salvation.

This is the diversion. Take all the attention off what really matters and put it on something that is in no way a fair representation of how true Christians live and love and behave. These are smokescreens behind which men and women who want no part of God will shoot from to make their point. I say, let Paycheck first live it, and then he can earn the right to tell us what we already know.

Maybe you could compose something Paul.

Could be something in reply to Mr Paycheck song.

;-)

I certainly agree that using church hypocrisy as a reason to reject Christ is often a ruse. The thing that bothers me is when those that are less then socially desirable do come to Christ, they can still be rejected by a church.

I've seen this and it bothers me. (Not everywhere obviously...just too close to home.) (edit: I realize this is a difficult subject. Without sarcasm, I do realize that it is hard to incorporate all levels of a society under one roof. To be fair, Christians perhaps are more generous within their own social context then any other 'community'.)

MC

The thing that bothers me is when those that are less then socially desirable do come to Christ, they can still be rejected by a church.

God takes care of His own children, and He leads them to the right place time after time after time. But the man in this song is different; he's not apprehended by God nor does he want to be. He's driven away from a phony assemblage because of his appearance, and this song would paint a broad stroke of all organized Christian congregations acting like this toward an "undesirable" person wanting to sit for a service.

You know, brother, when I got saved it was reversed! God led me to a Spirit-filled biker church! The Pastor was an ex-green beret Vietnam vet with long hair and tattoos. He wore a leather vest and had a redneck accent that would put Jeff Foxworthy to shame. I was all socially refined, from a very wealthy family upbringing, a tournament chess player, classical guitarist specializing in J.S. Bach and 16th century renaissance lute music, a writer, college educated in Boston, a Russian-Italian polyglot and world traveller and accomplished composer...and here God sent me to a long-haired Bubba sitting on a Harley. But this Bubba knew God very intimately and I suddenly realized I knew absolutely nothing, and that all my knowledge was vain and that I would give it all up in an instant to get what he had. And since that day, a deeper and deeper knowledge of God has been all that I've wanted. I say this because since that day I have also experienced much hypocrisy and prejudice and rejection, but all those things really do is strengthen your life-line to Jesus Christ...that is, if you're truly saved and your heart's right with God. If not, you'll complain and gripe and write songs like this and incessantly bemoan the woeful state of organized Christianity.

It can be so humbling! Right from the start (from when I met Pastor Bubba) the Lord taught me to never, ever go by appearance. A fantastic object lesson! He uses the foolish to confound the wise, and it all makes absolute sense [i]if God already has a hold on you[/i]. If God doesn't have a hold on a man, there will be nothing but criticism and bitterness when he sees that everyone falls way below his expectations. "[i]These are supposed to be Chrtistians?[/i]" he will ask himself, as he begins to ennumerate each flaw. I've had people fall in love with me in church when I was a youth pastor...until I forbade unsaved kids to play the guitar and drums during praise and worship. Then I was "judgmental" and unchristlike in denying kids the chance to worship God. And on and on it goes.

We are to reflect Christ in all we say or do, but when we reflect Christ we mustn't superimpose His image over the expectations of the world or even societal etiquette. Mixtures kill.