Denominations

My current bank has a sign by the counter which reads"coinage is only acceptable when presented in specific denominations"Whenever I see it I have a little chuckle and lift my heart in thanks to God that He doesn't work on the same basis!His/YoursRon B ;-)

I like that!In fact it has given me an idea.Think I will start a new topic in the 'lounge' called 'On the Lighter Side'.We probably all could benefit from a little humor._/crsschk\\_

I suppose I've wrestled with the question of denominations ever since I received Jesus Christ into my life. I've heard extreme 'nondenominational' viewpoints which likened anyone involved in a denomination to an apostate heretic. On the other hand, I've known Christians who seem more sold out to their particular 'brand' of Christianity than they are to Jesus Christ. Personally, I attend a church which is part of an "International Fellowship", but I think the facts are indisputable, it is, or has been turned into, a denomination. I don't believe that God will bless manmade ideologies and politics which have nothing to do with His eternal purposes. However, many Christians find doctrinal security in being a part of their particular denomination. They see it more as believers coming together to stand for essential biblical truth. One good thing about denominations is their collective ability to financially support missions and missionary work overseas and in their homeland. Obviously people 'at the top' of denominations receive salaries, so one has to wonder how much more money could go 'overseas' if the 'overhead expenditures' were non-existent, and all finances went straight to the missionaries and church-planters. I have been very good friends with a few men in national leadership in my fellowship. I've met some of the most generous and Christ-like people in our international headquarters building. However, I've also met those that I would liken to 'wolves in sheep's clothing', who show no more evidence of the fruit of the Spirit than a doorknob. Obviously, there are many great men and women of God who have been used mightily who have been part of 'fellowships' or denominations. For example, A.W. Tozer was a part of the Christian & Missionary Alliance for many years. David Wilkerson was with the Assemblies of God until the late 80s. Charles Spurgeon was a Baptist, although I see little similarity between Spurgeon and the many hundreds of denominations in America calling themselves Baptist. John Wesley was a minister in the Church of England (Anglican). There's no doubt that God can use us within or without denominations. The final issue appears to be loyalty. Who has my heart? Does my General Superintendent, my Bishop, my Secretary/Treasurer...? No, my loyalty, no matter where He might choose to place me will always be to God the Father, and to my Lord Jesus Christ. What can man do to me? I am not my own, I have been bought with a price...

Mark 9:38-40 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.For he that is not against us is on our part.Do you see that repeated "he followeth not us" in verse 38. It is not the label of denomination that is the problem but the 'spirit' of denominationalism which causes the problem. Those names you mentioned in your post we all wide hearted men who embraced all the family of God.I remember, as a very young Christian, listening to a platform of men at an evangelistic rally; they had been invited to introduce themselves to prospective converts. One said "I am John Smith, I belong to the Anglican church". Another said "I am Bill Brown, I belong to the Baptist church". Another said "I am Alan Taylor, I belong to the Salvation Army". Then a fourth man stood up and said "I am Fred Jones, I BELONG to Jesus Christ but I WORK for the Methodist church". I heard that over 40 years ago and the impact still lives with me.

And Fred got it right!Amen.'spirit' of denominationalism which causes the problem Wish I could recall where I heard it, that originaly 'denominations' were set up as a way to distinguish missionaries, not as we have them today, mainly divided over doctrinal issues. To what extent that is true, I don't know. Has anyone else ever heard something to this effect?I agree that it is the 'spirit' that is the problem. Man made traditions, being dogmatic over secondary issues, preferences, loyalty to the 'church' as opposed to loyalty to Jesus.The church I attend is of the mindset of the Restoration Movement of Barton W. Stone and Thomas Campbell. The thought being a return to the New Testament model.." we have no bishops or superintendents or national headquarters to determine local church policies. We elect our own leaders, call and support our own ministers, decide where our missionary money will go. We are not isolationists, though. Our congregations freely associate with one another to accomplish tasks to big for one church alone.""Our message is that 'Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God'. We require no other creed. He alone is Lord and Savior."Something that struck me as I re-read that scripture, "he followeth not us" in verse 38. "US"Maybe a lot revolves around that word. Just prior to that statement by John, in verse 37 "Whoever receives one of these little children in My name receives Me; and whoever receives Me, receives not Me but Him who sent Me." John has an idea as to who "us" is. In verse 39 Jesus reiterates the definition of "us" "..no one who who works a miracle in My name can soon afterward speak evil of Me." before he uses the word again in verse 40 "For he who is not against us" and then the true meaning... "is on our side."In a sense, it's as if that 'spirit' of division was at work right there and Jesus shut it down by giving a clear definition of who constitutes us. How did we manage to miss this and other verses that we are to be one body, with Jesus the head over all?Surely John's intentions were well placed, as most of our's can be, that we want to be sure are 'doctrine' is correct (as we should), that many 'false Christ's have gone out" and we need to be on guard and that we 'test the spirits' etc.But there is still the bottom line and as the slogan says; "In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity."

Does the fact that there are many denominations mean that we are not one body? It is true that at times the different denominations have been entrenched in their own disctinctive doctrines to the detrement of the Church. However in times past people who have been captured by the love of Christ have been able to work across the denominational and theological lines with each other to be co-laborers in the kingdom of God. This has happened throughout the history of the Church. I would ask; "Must unity entail uniformity?" Ultimately what makes a person a Christian is not his denomination, but the fact that Jesus Christ is alive in his heart. Do we disagree about certain views on this site? Yes. But, let one of the essentials of our faith be harmed, or one of us be in need, and we pull together as one in the Lord. Do we rejoice when brothers and sisters post praise reports? Certainly we don't look to make sure they are apart of our specific movement before we offer our praise. If we look past the surface I think we will find that we are united with an eternal bond and that in Jesus Christ who has, by his providence, placed us where he wants us. And when we stand together in Heaven we will only see each other as we truely are, brothers and sisters in Christ.In Christ,Jeremy Hulsey

I love that quote:"In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity."To Hulsey -I didn't mean to imply the notion that denominations kill the unity of the Body of Christ with their distinctives necessarily. Denominationalism isn't an issue that stays at the forefront of my mind all the time, but I sometimes wonder if denominations, fellowships, and other corporate groups allow their doctrinal statements to dictate to their 'members' what they perceive as the truth, rather than allow the Word of God, the pure doctrine of our Lord Jesus Christ, to dictate His Truth to us. Personally, if I'm fully persuaded of the ministry which God has called me to, I will work in whatever field, regardless of denomination, that the Holy Spirit shall lead me to. Oh, and by the way, I'm really starting to enjoy the discussions in this forum. I like to see different viewpoints being expressed, and that we all seem to have the same heart for our God. I thank God for this website. It's truly a blessing. And so are all of you who walk in the Truth.

Personally, if I'm fully persuaded of the ministry which God has called me to, I will work in whatever field, regardless of denomination, that the Holy Spirit shall lead me to. Yes!Oh, and by the way, I'm really starting to enjoy the discussions in this forum. I like to see different viewpoints being expressed, and that we all seem to have the same heart for our God. I thank God for this website. It's truly a blessing. And so are all of you who walk in the Truth. Could not agree more...And..."the same heart for our God"...Amen. In the short time I have been here it has been a continual blessing. Been encouraged by 'like minded' brethren who long for a deeper walk, who have that hunger for the things of God, the mind of Christ....Have learned much, seen much love, care, and help towards those who are here. It has challenged my thinking as you stated with the variety of view points..'iron sharpens iron' indeed! What a great community we have! We have some minds sharpened by the Holy Spirit through years of walking with our Lord and I for one am grateful that they are so willing to share their experiences and knowledge with us all.I love you all in our Lord.Mike_/crsschk\\_

Taking the quote:"In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity."What are the 'essentials'?Is it just the gospel?Or is it anything more than that?

Your point is well taken Nugent. I'm sorry if my post came across as acusatory towards yours. I am actually in agreement that if looked at only on the surface, we can let our own special doctrine get in the way and bring unnessasary divisions.I was just musing on the thought that, through all the organizations of men, there stands a body, united in Christ. That in actuallity we are in unity already and it is a beautiful site. Truely the Lord is coming for a bride that is spotless and without blemish.In Christ,Jeremy Hulsey

There is a difference, of course, between union and unity. You can tie a dog and a cat together by their tails and you have union.... :-D

Here's another catch-phrase I like:"UNITY! NOT NECESSARILY UNANIMITY (Mark 9:38-40)"And yeah, I think the difference between union and unity, as pertains to the body of Christ, is that "unity" is through our common connection in Christ while "union" would be connection with each other. Unity is prioritized as Christ first, and through that others. Union would be the other way around (unity with others first and then Christ). Is that correct?It seems to me that no matter what anybody thinks or says, the true body of Christ is united, whether they or anyone else likes it or not. Now our part is to realize it and live like it.

"I'm sorry if my post came across as acusatory towards yours."Not at all, Jeremy. I didn't feel your post was accusatory, I just wanted to make sure that what I had written was as clear as possible. Actually, your posts are usually the ones I look forward to reading the most!"...through all the organizations of men, there stands a body, united in Christ."I understand what you're saying here. In every man made organization, there are those who are truly following Jesus Christ and walking in obedience to God. And within and without all of these denominations, there stands Christ's body, only seen in its entirety by God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Powerful.

'Taking the quote:"In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity."What are the 'essentials'?Is it just the gospel?Or is it anything more than that?'Maybe we need to start a thread discussing just what these 'essentials' are. I would consider the nature of God, the 100% divine and 100% human nature of our Lord Jesus Christ, our Redemption (Christ's death on the cross), the resurrection of Jesus Christ, the inspiration of the Holy Scriptures, all to be essentials. I'm well aware that there are others that could be considered essentials. What are your thoughts?