Video: The Prostitution of the Blood of Christ: T-Shirts

Not sure how to respond to this. Your video points out many things wrong with the church, and merchandising is definately one of them. No argument there. The Christian bookstores are the money changers of today. And it's interesting that many mega-churches now bring the money changres right into their church buildings... kinda reminds me of the money changers in the temple that Jesus drove out.

On the other hand, there were some things in your video that I found to be petty. By that I mean I dont find all the shirts offensive. Some were, but not all. I have several Christian t-shirts that have something clever on them and they have been amazing conversation starters which have given me many opportunities to witness. One of my favorites is one that says "This Shirt Is Illegal In 52 Countries" and is about the persecuted/underground church in other countries.

In the first part of the video you zoom in on a video of some Christian band. You make the comment "what are they thinking.... with those bright lights..." I dont get that. What do bright lights have to do with anything? Is there plenty wrong with Christian music? You betcha. You're right. But I dont put a blanket condemnation on all Christian music because I have seen Christian music be a blessing and inspiiration in MANY lives, my own included.

Overall... you make a great point. One that I've made here often. In fact, not only are Christian bookstores the money changers of today, they are grossly overpriced on EVERYTHING. Here in Asheville NC there is a Family Christian Bookstore in the same plaza as a Walmart Super Center... and if there is a Christian book or CD I want I check to see if I can find it at Walmart before I even walk into the Christian bookstore because Walmart's price will usually be 40% lower. What a crock.

Sooo... suffice it to say that I get your point. I agree with your point. However, I thought some of your comments and examples were over-critical and petty.

But I love ya! I'm just offering my opinion and hopefully some constructive criticism. And if you disagree with me, thats ok. I can take it. :-)

Oh... by the way... [b]welcome to SI!![/b]

Krispy

I like the video and all of your points to me were valid but christians can go over the other deep end as well. They can be just as scary even dangerous like beating the "devil" out of their children ect... You get my point. I could go on and on...

Bottom line is balance..

Proverbs 11:1
A false balance is [b]abomination[/b] to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight.

Proverbs 20:23
Divers weights are an abomination unto the LORD; and a false balance is [b]not good.[/b]

I think though that you were right on in the video.

There are definitely some valid points. Oh may we be saved from these things.

good video....I think it is embarrassing to the body of Christ with all this "christian" merchandise. If I need a shirt to share my faith then there is bigger issues, If I need some jewelery or other clothing to witness, then again...bigger issues. We are marketing and profiting off the Gospel of Jesus Christ. As I learned tonight going through the 10 Commandments. In our study tonight with the command of taking Gods name in vain is the same thing as profiting for it, by using His name. Basically If I use His name in order to win business or profit from it then I am using His name in vain. We forgot how Holy His name is. The reverence is gone because it is on every single thing...its a commodity now. Orthodox Jews would not even say the name Jehovah, because it is so Holy! But we, I, hear His name daily as a new vernacular, you get used to it, you don't realize that you have let your guard down and conformed to a worlds view. And yes,Christ did more that just walk on water. He is not some cool dude who's everyone's buddy.

Sorry, but I think it is distasteful having a shirt that represents the persecuted church. If non-believers don't care that Christ died for there sins, there not going to be concerned about some person being jailed and tortured for Christ.

Sorry for getting so turned up...I am preaching to the choir here.

mike

Sorry, but I think it is distasteful having a shirt that represents the persecuted church. If non-believers don't care that Christ died for there sins, there not going to be concerned about some person being jailed and tortured for Christ.

Well... before you go off not knowing what you're talking about (which you already did)... it so happens that Voice of the Martyrs is who sells this shirt (altho it may be available thru other outlets). All proceeds from the sale of their shirts and other ministry items goes directly to smuggling Bibles into places like Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, etc.

Wearing that shirt in public has started conversations with people that you would not believe. I get questions from saved and unsaved... and it gives me an opportunity to share the gospel with so many folks.

Believe it or not, most of the people who ask me about the shirt are [b]non[/b]-believers. One thing that really strikes at their heart is that they take their freedoms for granted. It also gives me an opportunity to tell them about Christ, and demonstrate for them the level of devotion that our persecuted brethren have toward Him in other countries around the world.

Believe me when I tell you that it is a very convicting thing for an unbeliever to hear about how much some people are willing to sacrifice and go through for their faith in Christ. Most Americans "believe in Christ" but are not born again. When they hear about our persecuted brethren it really does cause many Americans to reconsider their so-called faith... and I have led people to the Lord because this shirt opened up a conversation that may not have happened otherwise.

I was asked to speak about the persecuted church in a friends church recently, and I wore that shirt... and I was actually "teaching" before the Sunday School class started.

Many of our persecuted brethren around the world wear literal scars for our Lord Jesus... the least I can do is wear my love for the Lord and His people on a t-shirt.

What you call distasteful, Mike, God has used to open up hearts to the gospel. Be very careful when you condemn something that God has obviously used to His glory... it's dangerously close to blasphemey.

Not only that, but it's foolish to mock or condemn a shirt that you havent even seen. There are a couple of folks here on SI that have bought the shirt from VOM at my suggestion, and they can confirm every word I've said here.

So on this one Mike, sorry bro... but your dead wrong.

Krispy

What you call distasteful, Mike, God has used to open up hearts to the gospel. Be very careful when you condemn something that God has obviously used to His glory... it's dangerously close to blasphemey.

That is a stretch...I wasn't the one mocking this guys video calling some of it petty. Also since when did a t-shirt became part of the canon of scripture? Since you called it blasphemous for me to disagree? Just because others on SI may have bought the T-shirt doesn't mean they have some influence over my belief, and make the point that it is absolute truth now!

I would say there is probably not many persecuted Christians walking around wearing that shirt...they could I suppose, but I doubt it. However I will say the verdict is out. The only reason VOM offers that shirt is because American Christians buy this stuff. (I know they are trying to raise money, but just give it and be done.) We have bumper stickers, jewelery, jeans for Jesus now. Because we consume it and buy it with our now Christian credit cards, some places offer now. I appreciate VOM and what they do, but just because they do offer this shirt doesn't mean I have to agree based on who they are in the world. I can disagree with then and it is not blasphemous brother. Would Richard Wurmbrand were the shirt? Maybe..maybe not. I can support the persecuted shirt with out wearing a shirt, and have BTW.
Sorry but for you to say if they can wear the scars for Christ then at least I can do is wear a shirt for the persecuted church! Think about what you just said! I will hold my opinion to myself on that one. Because I fear that this will propel us to regret somethings said.

If you want to wear that shirt, wear it, share it. Personally I don't care, but I felt that you critiqued this guys video to know end, because you were offended by his view point and had to voice it. Which is fine, but to call it petty was rude. He just wanted to share this video, and I thought he did a pretty good job. everyone else had a short statement of encouragement, but you had to go in depth and analyze it to death.

thanks but I don't think I am dead wrong sir.

Mike

I wasn't the one mocking this guys video calling some of it petty

I would hardly call my post about his video "mocking".

Also since when did a t-shirt became part of the canon of scripture?

Did I say it was? No...

Since you called it blasphemous for me to disagree?

No, I said condemning something that God has obviously used to open doors of communication about Him is "close" to blasphemey.

Just because others on SI may have bought the T-shirt doesn't mean they have some influence over my belief, and make the point that it is absolute truth now!

What I meant by what I said was several other folks here have had similar experiences as me concerning a great witnessing tool. It's no different than using tracts to open up doors of communication.

The only reason VOM offers that shirt is because American Christians buy this stuff.

Uhmm... you know the heart of VOM? Have you considered that perhaps VOM offers this shirt in order to help raise awareness of the struggle of our persecuted brethren? It certainly has been an effective tool in my life.

(I know they are trying to raise money, but just give it and be done.)

Actually... I give to them monthly, along with financial support to other ministries... with nothing in return. I dont even claim my giving on my income tax because I dont ever want that to become a motivation to give. I want to give according to the leading of the Holy Spirit.

We have bumper stickers, jewelery, jeans for Jesus now. Because we consume it and buy it with our now Christian credit cards, some places offer now.

No argument there... as I have stated very clearly from the beginning of this thread, and a miriad of other threads.

Sorry but for you to say if they can wear the scars for Christ then at least I can do is wear a shirt for the persecuted church! Think about what you just said! I will hold my opinion to myself on that one. Because I fear that this will propel us to regret somethings said.

As I stated... and you have conveniently ignored... I do more than wear a shirt. Most folks here dont have any idea the ministries I am involved in. I do not share that because I know me, and I know it can be an issue of pride for me. So suffice it to say that to characterize me as only "wearing a shirt for the persecuted church" is not only false, but shows that you have ignored everything I've said about on this very thread.

I felt that you critiqued this guys video to know end, because you were offended by his view point and had to voice it. Which is fine, but to call it petty was rude. He just wanted to share this video, and I thought he did a pretty good job. everyone else had a short statement of encouragement, but you had to go in depth and analyze it to death.

Just because you have a negative view of me doesnt mean that my original post was negative. Your projecting things onto me that simply are not true. I gave an honest opinion so that perhaps he can gain some insight into how OTHERS may view his video. Obviously he expected feedback or he wouldnt have posted it here of all places. I cant voice my opinion? My post wasnt vindictive or angry or negative... it was honest. Some of it was petty. Most of it was right on, and I stated that clearly. But because it would contradict the picture you're trying to paint of me... you ignore that part completely.

Lastly... your response to me is completely negative and unChristlike. You're the only negative response I've received concerning this thread, and believe me... if I step out of bounds I hear about it both on the thread and in PM's. So far... just you. I suspect your angry response to me shows that this has more to do with your dislike of me than anything else.

Me, personally... I love you.

And dont call me "sir"... I work for a living.

Krispy

From Easton's dictionary...

Blasphemey:

[i]In the sense of speaking evil of God this word is found in Ps. 74:18; Isa. 52:5; Rom. 2:24; Rev. 13:1, 6; 16:9, 11, 21. It denotes also any kind of calumny, or evil-speaking, or abuse (1 Kings 21:10; Acts 13:45; 18:6, etc.). Our Lord was accused of blasphemy when he claimed to be the Son of God (Matt. 26:65; comp. Matt. 9:3; Mark 2:7). They who deny his Messiahship blaspheme Jesus (Luke 22:65; John 10:36). Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost (Matt. 12:31, 32; Mark 3:28, 29; Luke 12:10) is regarded by some as a continued and obstinate rejection of the gospel, and hence is an unpardonable sin, simply because as long as a sinner remains in unbelief he voluntarily excludes himself from pardon. [b]Others regard the expression as designating the sin of attributing to the power of Satan those miracles which Christ performed, or generally those works which are the result of the Spirit's agency.[/b][/i]

I've heard it described as attributing the works of the Holy Spirit to that of Satan. When the Holy Spirit uses a tool (in this case a t-shirt) to bring about witnessing opportunities... and someone calls it "distasteful", and condemns it... I dont know what else to call it.

Krispy

KrispyKrittr wrote:

I wasn't the one mocking this guys video calling some of it petty

I would hardly call my post about his video "mocking".

Also since when did a t-shirt became part of the canon of scripture?

Did I say it was? No...

Since you called it blasphemous for me to disagree?

No, I said condemning something that God has obviously used to open doors of communication about Him is "close" to blasphemey.

Just because others on SI may have bought the T-shirt doesn't mean they have some influence over my belief, and make the point that it is absolute truth now!

What I meant by what I said was several other folks here have had similar experiences as me concerning a great witnessing tool. It's no different than using tracts to open up doors of communication.

The only reason VOM offers that shirt is because American Christians buy this stuff.

Uhmm... you know the heart of VOM? Have you considered that perhaps VOM offers this shirt in order to help raise awareness of the struggle of our persecuted brethren? It certainly has been an effective tool in my life.

(I know they are trying to raise money, but just give it and be done.)

Actually... I give to them monthly, along with financial support to other ministries... with nothing in return. I dont even claim my giving on my income tax because I dont ever want that to become a motivation to give. I want to give according to the leading of the Holy Spirit.

We have bumper stickers, jewelery, jeans for Jesus now. Because we consume it and buy it with our now Christian credit cards, some places offer now.

No argument there... as I have stated very clearly from the beginning of this thread, and a miriad of other threads.

Sorry but for you to say if they can wear the scars for Christ then at least I can do is wear a shirt for the persecuted church! Think about what you just said! I will hold my opinion to myself on that one. Because I fear that this will propel us to regret somethings said.

As I stated... and you have conveniently ignored... I do more than wear a shirt. Most folks here dont have any idea the ministries I am involved in. I do not share that because I know me, and I know it can be an issue of pride for me. So suffice it to say that to characterize me as only "wearing a shirt for the persecuted church" is not only false, but shows that you have ignored everything I've said about on this very thread.

I felt that you critiqued this guys video to know end, because you were offended by his view point and had to voice it. Which is fine, but to call it petty was rude. He just wanted to share this video, and I thought he did a pretty good job. everyone else had a short statement of encouragement, but you had to go in depth and analyze it to death.

Just because you have a negative view of me doesnt mean that my original post was negative. Your projecting things onto me that simply are not true. I gave an honest opinion so that perhaps he can gain some insight into how OTHERS may view his video. Obviously he expected feedback or he wouldnt have posted it here of all places. I cant voice my opinion? My post wasnt vindictive or angry or negative... it was honest. Some of it was petty. Most of it was right on, and I stated that clearly. But because it would contradict the picture you're trying to paint of me... you ignore that part completely.

Lastly... your response to me is completely negative and unChristlike. You're the only negative response I've received concerning this thread, and believe me... if I step out of bounds I hear about it both on the thread and in PM's. So far... just you. I suspect your angry response to me shows that this has more to do with your dislike of me than anything else.

Me, personally... I love you.

And dont call me "sir"... I work for a living.

Krispy

Well I don't have a problem with you or dislike you, because I don't know you, I think you probably can be a little hard and zealous with your opinions. Not to say they are wrong or right, but for me, you can come across hard; reading your previous threads. How do I know this...because I can be that way too.

I don't know why saying "sir" means that you work for a living? Didn't get that one.

As far as the other responses, I won't respond back, only for the purpose that it will perpetuate this more.

:-)

Well I don't have a problem with you or dislike you, because I don't know you, I think you probably can be a little hard and zealous with your opinions.

You're absolutely right... I can be. And I've had to back track at times and apologize for it. But I dont think my original post was over the top or too harsh. But thats open for interpretation.

How do I know this...because I can be that way too.

We have common ground then. :-)

I don't know why saying "sir" means that you work for a living? Didn't get that one.

It's an old military joke.... I was messin' with ya, but you didnt get it, so nevermind.

As far as the other responses, I won't respond back, only for the purpose that it will perpetuate this more.

Believe it or not, I had made up my mind that I had said all I had to say about this... so let's just put it bed.

Love ya, bro...

Krispy

Believe it or not, I had made up my mind that I had said all I had to say about this... so let's just put it bed.

I agree

I can take my blows from the best of them. :-)

Never hard feelings with me...just the yankee in me...I suppose!

Blessings to you and love you in the Lord
Mike

Never hard feelings with me...just the yankee in me...I suppose!

Ahhh... now I understand! Well, we're both American by birth, my brother. I just happen to be Southern by the grace of God. :-)

Krispy