Will only the christians that are baptizwed with the Holy Ghost go in the rapture?

Please only y give a response if you belive that the baptism of the Holy Ghost happens after conversion.

Jerry, I can only speak from my own experience.
Salvation came when I realized my shame and sin
and invited Christ into my heart and life. The
baptism and filling of the Spirit came later
when I began to understand what it meant to be
filled and led by the Spirit. We must be Spirit
born, Spirit filled, and Spirit led Christians.
The Spirit is the pledge of Christ within us,
the hope of glory. When our Blessed Lord returns
for His own, He will know us by the emblem of
His Holy Spirit within !!

Hi Krispy,

You challenged me on issue yesterday and I was about to start a thread. Now somebody else has done it.

I do believe that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is distinguished from but subsequent to repentance, faith and water baptism and there is overwhelming evidence in the scriptures for that.

The Holy Spirit is not necessary for those who are satisfied to have the correct doctrine only.
He is not neccessary for those who have it all togehter and know the answer to everything.

The Holy Spirit is promised to everyone, but not everyone, in fact only a minority is desperate enough to be filled with the Holy Spirit.

You have to ask for Him or you may not receive Him.

I see it sometimes as a counter reaction to Charismatic chaos. There is even a book entitled "Charismatic Chaos"
Satan works a dual strategy as always.
Either people go into wild exaggerations and as a reaction others reject any envolvement in anything that smells Charismatic.

There was a small move of the Holy Spirit in my country Germany just about at the time of the Azusa Street and Welsh Revival. There were some strange manifestation that were likely caused by demons. Subsequently the whole move was condemned by most Christian leaders. Some go so far as to say that Adolf Hitler was God's judgement because of this rejection.

Can you go to heaven without being filled with the Spirit? Can you go to heaven without being baptized in water?
I would answer: What is the reason why you did not get filled with the Holy Spirit or baptized in water? Was is ignorance, indifference or rejection of this truth?

How do I know if I am filled with the Holy Spirit? When you can cry out Abba Father. The Spirit Himself will witness to you.

In addition to the bible verses quoted by others I would mention these:
Acts 10:44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. 46For they heard them speaking in tongues[b] and praising God.

Act 8
14When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into[c] the name of the Lord Jesus. 17Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

narrowpath

Why did Jesus send the Holy Spirit? Why did He say He Himself would not leave us comfortless and would come Himself also?

The Holy Spirit is not Jesus Christ, even though they are One Spirit with the Father. For we are all baptized into One Spirit. The Holy Spirit shed no blood, the Holy Spirit did not hang on the Cross. The Holy Spirit is not life, only the Spirit of Christ by the Incorruptable See of the Father is Life. The Holy Spirit is our Teacher and works in the Soul of man. The Spirit of Christ is our rebirth and the life of all that are saved by the Father, new creatures in Christ.

The "another Comforter", who is the Holy Spirit who abides with us forever does what? To testify and teach Christ to the believers.

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Who is our life, our life Comforter and who is the teacher of that life, another Comforter?

John 14:16-20 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

So we have two Comforters, One to everlasting life which is Christ, and One to live with us forever declaring to us who Christ is and what He has said.

Spirit, Soul and Body.

Spirit, is Christ, Soul, where the Teacher Holy Spirit dwells, Body, clay pots, quickened to contain the God Head and all that God represents of His children, born of God by the Seed of Christ in us, making us son's of God also and lead by the Holy Spirit of Truth.

God is the One that sends the Holy Spirit and He is the One that Seals us into the life of Christ, new creatures in Christ Jesus, which we already have received, lest how could we be sealed.

The Holy Spirit Parakleet, Teacher is not the Spirit of Christ that gives us life, for without Christ's Spirit we are none of His and have no birth rights. But Baptized into all three, The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit, Which water baptism displays to all that see, we are now son's of God in Christ Jesus by the Holy Spirit, signed, sealed and delivered.

In Christ: Phillip

Please only y give a response if you belive that the baptism of the Holy Ghost happens after conversion.

I am post-tribulation in theology, though I do believe in a post-conversion Spirit baptism. Regardless of your view, the idea that only those who have been baptized in the Holy Spirit will go when the trumpet blows (no matter the timing) is entirely unbiblical.

May I be so bold as to say if somebody says otherwise, they are clearly enslaved to a works based theology, and thus, likely not even saved let alone filled with the Holy Spirit?

Will only the christians that are baptizwed with the Holy Ghost go in the rapture?\t

Reply Please only y give a response if you belive that the baptism of the Holy Ghost happens after conversion.

This question is loaded with terms that need defining (Rapture, Conversion and Baptism with the Holy Spirit). I guess we should also ask can a person be baptized with the Holy Spirit [i]before[/i] conversion?

May I be so bold as to say if somebody says otherwise, they are clearly enslaved to a works based theology, and thus, likely not even saved let alone filled with the Holy Spirit?

This depends on what is meant by Spirit Baptism, I think.

[color=000066]For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (I Cor. 12:13)[/color]

Can a person be saved that is [u]not[/u] in the Body of Christ?

This depends on what is meant by Spirit Baptism, I think.

By "Spirit Baptism," I mean that "Pentecostal" (loaded term) experience whereby after one's conversion in which they are born-again (and receive the indwelling and sealing Spirit of God), that person receives a special "endument" with "power from on high," which equips the believer for effectual and powerful service.

Quote:

"""By "Spirit Baptism," I mean that "Pentecostal" (loaded term) experience whereby after one's conversion in which they are born-again (and receive the indwelling and sealing Spirit of God), that person receives a special "endument" with "power from on high," which equips the believer for effectual and powerful service."""

Amen, but the evidence of it is not speaking in tongues, for the witness is in us, The Spirit of Christ for His Body the Church, the Holy Spirit giving power to our minds to the effectual and powerful service of Truth that may be brought to a dying and sinning world.

1 John 5:10-13 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

"He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself:" Then the Holy Spirit comes and teaches us the truth of this mystery, which is, "Christ in you the Hope of Glory".

Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

All that are born again have this witness in themselves. This is the power from on high given to all that are born again in Christ.

If we don't have the Spirit of Christ we are none of His and the rapture and the Father's House in heavenly places are not ours either.

Praise God for the power in the Holy Spirit Teaching of the Truth, to our place in Christ. Heirs of God and Co-heirs with Christ:

1Jo 5:6 This is He that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
1Jo 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

Phillip

quote;
Please only y give a response if you belive that the baptism of the Holy Ghost happens after conversion.

Have you read the parable of the 10 virgins?

First, I request only those that believe that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is after they are saved because that is the stand I shall forever hold becvause I have experienced IT. Second, In reply to your belief of being baptized with the Holy Ghost at when one is saved, did not Paul ask some diciples in Acts 19:1-2:

19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost SINCE YE BELIEVED? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

We would have to agree that the baptism of the Holy Ghost was separate from their conversion.

Your Brother in Christ,
Jerry

By baptism, I mean a pentecostal blessing as in Acts 2. By rapture, I mean a pretribulation rapture.

I do not hold the belief that you must be baptized with the Hly Ghost to go in the rapture. I have a friend who as of the last time I spoke with him, he was leaning toward that belief. I was not satisfied with all the scripture he gave in support of that belief.

jerryaustin1 wrote:

First, I request only those that believe that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is after they are saved because that is the stand I shall forever hold becvause I have experienced IT.

[u][b]Luke 23:39-43 (NKJV)[/b][/u]

Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, “If You are the Christ save Yourself and us.”
But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.” Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”
[b]And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”[/b]

Brother, from scripture, this thief did not experience anthing other then the precious work from our Lord stating, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."

Nothing was done, no implication of being filled with the Holy Spirit, no baptism with water, nothing besides a pure belief in the Lord. This thief is now a brother of ours in Christ Jesus, raised on that day of glory. To state otherwise would be to imply that Jesus does not mean what He says.

As for the pre-trib q&a, I cannot answer your question because I do not subscribe to that thought. :-)

Blessings brother.

jerryaustin1 wrote:
I do not hold the belief that you must be baptized with the Hly Ghost to go in the rapture. I have a friend who as of the last time I spoke with him, he was leaning toward that belief. I was not satisfied with all the scripture he gave in support of that belief.

I understand that you do NOT hold to that belief, but my question is: why is it that do not you hold to that belief?

The Word of God is clear, that if any man have not the Spirit of Christ-he is none of his (does not belong to Christ)

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

If the Spirit of Christ is not in someone, then that individual will not go with Christ in the rapture because "...he is none of his".

I believe that a person is not saved if they have NOT received the Spirit of God (Spirit of Christ, Holy Ghost) because that is the clear teaching to the Church in the New Testament.

If a man believes in Jesus, yet has not the Spirit-his belief in Christ may be motivated or assumed by the flesh-and belief according to the flesh is not justified by God as redeemable means of Grace unto salvation. Our belief in Christ must come from that "drawing of the Spirit"- which the Spirit can and does draw people unto him without being inside of them.

KrispyKrittr wrote:
Billy Graham, Spurgeon, Tozer, Ravenhill... the list goes on and on... all men who never spoke in tongues. Are we prepared to say that none of these champions of Christ were Baptized with the Holy Spirit?

1 Corinthians 12:4-11 [i]"Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to [b]every man[/b] to profit withal. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; [b]to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:[/b] But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.[/i]

Notice scripture makes it clear that tongues is given to [b]some[/b], but clearly not all.

It says "...[b]DIVERS[/b] KINDS of tongues" are given to some. Divers means "various". This means More than one kind of tongue are given to some. This is not the same as " unknown tongue" spoken of in 1 Cor 14:2-4.

In scripture you have "divers(various) kinds of tongues" and you " unknown tongue" and these are NOT the same thing.