If I were a lost man

I wanna throw this one out there.
If I were a lost man and told you that I was lost. What would you do to witness to me? If I told you I've already said the sinners prayer and repented and denied myself but I still don't have assurance of my salvation. What would you say? If I said that I've done all that how would you help me?
The reason I ask this very important question is because it seems like we all know the problem, but whats the solution?
It's easy to see all the problems but whats the root of the problem and whats the solution?

Hi there,
I think I understand what you're saying- it is easy to point out the bad in the church.

In my opinion, that person would need to "repent of their dead works."(Hebrews 6:1)

Once we repent of trying to earn salvation by good works(self denial, praying etc.) then we can enter in His rest wherein we find assurance. Keeping in mind that this rest we enter, will lead us to deny ourselves- this kind of self denial is good for it is not of ourselves but by grace- by the power of the Holy Spirit.

This is true also for believers who are being purified as they grow in grace.

If we continue in unbelief, trusting in our own "righteousness," we are guilty of pride which God hates.

Praise God for the FREE GIFT of His grace to all who would recieve it!

Thanks for the reply ServantJohn.

O.K. If I said I repented and turned from my sin but I still have a guilty conscience and can't get any peace. HOW WOULD YOU HELP ME? These are not just hypothetical questions by the way. They are real questions, that real people ask. Here I am. I'm in church every time the doors are opened, I serve, I might even be the pastor. What is my problem? I'm doing everything I know is right, but I still feel empty. I'm coming to you for help, PLEASE HELP?

Personally speaking, I would befriend you and trust that the Lord would show Himself through all my own imperfections. In life I would attempt to teach you lessons of a farmer, I doubt that you would realize you were being taught though.

I just edited the previous comment underneath. I figure it is more suitable to the question.

FAITH is the key.

We need to enter His rest by simply BELIEVING.

I heard a good analogy given by someone about holding on to good works to save them. Imagine a person hanging over hell. He is holding on to a rope and underneath him, Christ is there ready to catch him. He is afraid but Jesus promises that He'll catch him. The rope and the man are a picture of someone who is still holding on to good works to save him. He needs to let go and trust in Jesus to save him.

The blood of Jesus is sufficient and He gets ALL the glory!

I hope this helps.

dohzman wrote:
Personally speaking, I would befriend you and trust that the Lord would show Himself through all my own imperfections. In life I would attempt to teach you lessons of a farmer, I doubt that you would realize you were being taught though.

Hey dohzman thank you for responding,

Becoming a friend is always the best first approach. Thats the same thing Jesus did.
O.K. so now your my friend. I'm in turmoil here I just can't get any peace youve been my ear and heard my heart cries. I feel like such a fake. I stand before people and preach, or I teach a sunday school class, or am a faithful member of a local church. I'M supposed to be an example, but I know that I don't have the hope that I should be giving someone else. I don't think I'm really saved. I just don't know what I'm doing wrong. Why can't I just get some peace? Outwardly I'm doing everything right, but inside I know what I really am. I'm confessing to you all the hidden things in my heart and I've asked God to forgive me, but nothing seems to help. I need some comforting words. Help me.

ServantJohn wrote:
I just edited the previous comment underneath. I figure it is more suitable to the question.

FAITH is the key.

We need to enter His rest by simply BELIEVING.

I heard a good analogy given by someone about holding on to good works to save them. Imagine a person hanging over hell. He is holding on to a rope and underneath him, Christ is there ready to catch him. He is afraid but Jesus promises that He'll catch him. The rope and the man are a picture of someone who is still holding on to good works to save him. He needs to let go and trust in Jesus to save him.

The blood of Jesus is sufficient and He gets ALL the glory!

I hope this helps.

Alright hang with me brother.

These are tuff questions, I know but I think were starting to get somewhere.

You said I need to just believe, but I do believe. I believe the best I know how. I really believe that Jesus died for my sins. I really believe he rose from the dead. I've been to the altar 100 times and I feel good for a little while but it wheres off and It's back to the same thing. What now? I don't know how to have faith. What is faith? Saving faith. How do I get it?

well i would tell you that you need to seek God with all your heart, and keep on seeking Him. And befriending was a good point or solution, spend time with this person, and even for myself i could spend time in prayer for that person and seek God on their behalf and come back to them with some counsel. its funny tho, as i say that, i think to myself yea that sounds good, but would you really do that, knowing myself i dont think i would, but then you know, im not my old self. so yea! =)

its kinda funny, i was dealing with this issue not too long ago, only a week, still im feeling some after effects of it, the mind is a hard thing to change when something has been engraved in it, but praise God nothing is too hard for Him.

Hey matt, just saw your post, thank you,

Thanks for the honesty. If I were honest, I would say the same thing.
This is tuff is'nt it? We never know what we'll find when were just honest and sincere with ourselves.
I'm going to give a hint with what I believe the problem and solution is with this type christian or lost person. They are dealt with the same way even though one is regenerate and one is unregenerate they both think alike, and i'll show you why later. here is a hint.
"Identity theft"

Now........brother, I've been seeking God, Ive even fasted. I'm so unhappy and worried. I smile on the outside, but on the inside it's so dark and full of despair. Is there any hope for me? or am I just predestined for hell? You know. Maybe some of us are just not meant to be saved.

The early disciples came to faith in Jesus as messiah when they heard His teachings which came with authority and power and saw His works which were done in absolute unconditional love. Generally speaking, what I personally try to do is I sit for hours and wait on God in prayers and fastings so that I might be able to sow the Word and be ready for opportunities to share with others in your presence. The Holy Spirit is a wonderful invisiable discerner of the heart of all present and is always at work, seeking the lost.Unfortunately I find that I often times am out of step with God.

In our pulpits today we hear very little about identifying with Christ, for as a man thinketh in his heart so is he. I like to give a little book to all my friends called, "Pratice of the Presence of God" by bro. Lawarence. I think its a wonderful little book (booklet really) and an easy read. I also believe that Jesus' life on earth, what he said and what he did was designed to lead the early dosciples progressively into the very faith and belief in Him as God. That was needed for the church to be formed. As to ones in-ability to come to "faith", I believe that word faith has in our generation been so misused, but the teachings and doing of Christ's teachings are designed to bring one into faith. So as a sower of the Word, to teach the saying of Christ in life generally has a positive effect abd bears fruit.
I do have to admitt however that your questions, reasonings and expressed frustrations and doubts throughout this thread have been a profitable exercise in my thinking personally and have forced me back to the very foundations or early years of my walk. It''l be interesting to see where it all goes.

Amen dohzman,

As I said before, it's easy to tell people to believe, or repent, or say a prayer, and many other things but when we put ourself in theri situation and even have been there it's a little different. We have to be honest and really look at things. I could tell that person to get in the prayer closet and beg God, or I might even say theri just predestined for hell, theres nothing that could be done, but that just a cheap way out. If were truly to be soul winners we need to know how to touch people.
Have you ever witnesses to someone and knew they werent really listeneing? I think it's because they already know whats coming. I mean theyve probably heard it all before. I'm a sinner, and I'm going to hell. They may even be a preacher or church member and some of the most faithful and good people youve ever met. One of these people was my great grandmother, who was a devout christian. If there ever a person I thought was an angel in the flesh, it would be her and my grandfather. When she and my grandfather died, neither was sure if they were going to heaven. How could this be? Many are faced with the same feelings and cant get any relief, because WE don't know the answers.
Thanks for hanging with me. I know this is tuff. It's tuff for me to. I think it's time we as the church stop playing our spiritual games with people and start learning how to help them. I'm willing to give it a try.

This I believe is the key to entering that rest.

Phillipians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus. 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

I'll explain later why I think this is key, but I would love some other insight if someone else has any.

stromboli wrote:
This I believe is the key to entering that rest.

Phillipians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus. 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

I'll explain later why I think this is key, but I would love some other insight if someone else has any.

So what does it mean to have the mind of Christ?
To be equal with God. If "God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself" Arent we to do the same thing? God is in us right? We are the throne room of God. So were equal with God because Christ was equal with God, if we have the mind of Christ.
But if we don't have the mind of Christ, it's,"Oh what a poor wretch that I am. I'm such a sinner." It's that Romans chapter 7 kind of faith. So how do we know we are like God. We have HIS righteousness, and the faith of Jesus Christ. We already have it we don't have to do anything but SEE that we have it. Everyone has it they just don't know it. God has dealt a measure of faith to every man.Rom.12:3 We have to open their eyes so the comforter can take refuge and comfort. Why do they think God hates them. "An enemy hath done this."

We already have it we don't have to do anything but SEE that we have it.

Absolutely,

I'm sorry, I meant this for the carnally minded chrisitians not the unregenerate. In many ways the carnaly minded chritian is the same as the lost man though. They think the same way. Their looking at the fleshly aspects of works instead of the spiritual aspect of works.

Not everyone has the Spirit but everyone does have a measure of faith. Just wanted to clarify. Thats why the preasure is not on the lost person to have faith. He already has it. The faith has to become saving faith by effecting the heart.

Heres another thought. If someone is telling you that they are doing everything they know to do such as going to church, dressing right,obstaining from tobacco and alcohol use, etc...... but they still have no inner peace, they are telling you something very important. They are telling you that the fruits they are looking at are outward. What are the fruits of the Spirit. Their all emotional. Arent they? Their internal. Their invisible. Noone really knows but us and God if their even there. Unless..................they tell us. This is when these milk of the word truths are useful. Righteousness of God. Faith of Jesus Christ. It takes the pressure off them.
It is biblical that the whole world is reconciled. All sin is paid for. Thats the hang up. Thats when we become "double minded". Are we or arent we forgiven? Are we forgiven for the sins that weve commited in the past only. No! Were forgiven for every sin that we ever have or will commit.
We as christians spend most of our time just chasing our tail. Thats why we can never grow. We cant get off the milk. We keep laying again those foundations and we cant move forward, and we never learn to walk without stumbling because we never learned to rest and sit.
We spend most of our time in repentance and confession to help us with our guilt because WE DONT EVEN KNOW WHO WE ARE.

I don't want to seperate sanctification and justification, because I believe that you get both once you are born again. It's like a new born. You are born with two eyes two legs and a mouth to speak. You just have to grow enough to learn to speak and walk. We are sanctified and you can say we are being sactified as far as growth is concerned. Not as far as sin is concerned. Sanctification has NOTHING to do with sin. Just wanted to clarify. Does any of this help or is it all too confusing? I don't want to confuse anyone. This is meaty stuff in some ways but I believe new chrisitians can understand this to.

So what does it mean to have the mind of Christ?
To be equal with God. If "God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself" Arent we to do the same thing? God is in us right? We are the throne room of God. So were equal with God because Christ was equal with God, if we have the mind of Christ.

It is biblical that the whole world is reconciled. All sin is paid for. Thats the hang up. Thats when we become "double minded". Are we or arent we forgiven? Are we forgiven for the sins that weve commited in the past only. No! Were forgiven for every sin that we ever have or will commit.

This may be a common notion but it is wrought with error. It seems you are taking many things on gratis and simply repeating them, have you ever took to study if these things are so?

The whole world is not reconciled nor forgiven and in no way are we 'equal' with God. Furthermore ascribing that future sins are forgiven in this same fashion is a great presumption, [i]shall we sin that grace may abound? God forbid[/i].

Sanctification has NOTHING to do with sin.

It has everything to do with it.

[b]G38[/b]

ἁγιασμός

hagiasmos

[i]hag-ee-as-mos'[/i]

From G37; properly [i]purification[/i], that is, (the state) [i]purity[/i]; concretely (by Hebraism) a [i]purifier[/i]: - holiness, sanctification.

[i]For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God: That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified. For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.[/i] 1Th 4:3-7

But if we don't have the mind of Christ, it's,"Oh what a poor wretch that I am. I'm such a sinner." It's that Romans chapter 7 kind of faith. So how do we know we are like God. We have HIS righteousness, and the faith of Jesus Christ. We already have it we don't have to do anything but SEE that we have it. Everyone has it they just don't know it. God has dealt a measure of faith to every man.Rom.12:3 We have to open their eyes so the comforter can take refuge and comfort. Why do they think God hates them. "An enemy hath done this."

Again, a repeating of common era Christian notion. There is no such thing as a 'Romans 7 kind of faith' it's a trite, worn out ad nauseum postulating that there is some grand distinction between the unfortunate chapter breaks. If you read it in context Paul is making an [i]assessment[/i] not a 'that was then, this is now' argument. It is written in present tense vernacular, besides this self-debasing language is throughout his letters and proven out by others ...

It is difficult to know where to start brother but you are promoting much of what was recently debunked in Paul Washers recent message on "Ten Indictments". It has elements of the gospel of self-esteem and cannot be distilled simply down to a matter of "SEEING" as you have it but ultimately is one of [i]knowing[/i]. The answer to the larger question you are positing here is of regeneration, this is what and where the error starts and ends with, [i]You [u]must[/u] be born again[/i]. It is not platitudes nor repetition of contrived prayer but new life of a regenerated spirit that the person [i]knows[/i] in and of themselves that a dramatic change has taken place, not that it is told them, coaxed out of them or manipulated to them. [i]They[/i] will profess because they can do nothing otherwise. [i]How[/i] does this all take place? It certainly varies with the mystery of God's workings in any individual and the Lord said as much of a truth;

[i]The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.[/i] Joh 3:8

But there is no mistaking when it comes.

Brother, search out this site. Plug some of these words like sanctification and regeneration into the search engine. Read and listen to some of the old Puritans and compare them to what you are presenting here, there is a world of difference in the constructs of this day and hour.

A recommended series;

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=25079&forum=34&post_id=&refresh=Go]Spurgeon - Mueller - An Important Series ~ Piper's Biographies[/url]

Alright crssck,

I appreciate the criticism. I find it more profitable to just talk to people in easy to understand language. I'm sorry if i've been a burden.