The Great Whore of Revelation 17

Dear Krispy,

As you know we are 3 hours behind you here on the west coast and I just heard on the radio talk/news station that this was happening as we speak.

The words of the newscaster was ...

Quote: "They are coming together, the faith of Islam and the Vatican, the Catholics in dialogue to come together as one religion as they both believe in one god..... "

I sat there at the intersection and said ...here we go ....

Wow, Krispy! I was helping my sister-in-law with research for a paper that she is writing at Stanford regarding the Temple Mount. It is amazing that there are so many ties that bind Muslims, Jews and Roman Catholics! They each hold tenaciously to sacred sites and sacred articles.

Ironically, the Jews and Muslims are both awaiting a Messiah-like figure. I truly believe in the possibility that the Anti-Christ will be accepted by both the Jews and Muslims and will unite them in a unified religion that recognizes both of their longings for a unifying religious figure.

It is heartbreaking.

welllll, now ain't that interesting! Actually, not all that long ago as I was studying Revelation, I got the sense Islam will figure predominately in the end times...interesting how others are now saying the same thing and that events appear to be proving it...

Islam, Catholicism and Jews - all joining together would make for one formidable power to be reckoned with. Will you still support Israel politically? The USA has in the past stood by them in their conflict with Arab nations and it has not been done without Christan support....Oh, my! Would our support for Israel facilitate this alliance? Getting kind of political here, I admit, but would such support not have serious ramifications?

Hey, Krispy, what say?

ginnyrose

According to Newsweek, on the 23rd of Oct., President Bush met with several Muslim women from the Middle East.

"When it comes to my views on Muslims, I believe that we pray to the same God," he told the women, according to a person at the meeting who, like others quoted in this story, asked for anonymity speaking about private conversations. "I believe we share in the same beliefs. I believe Muslim mothers want their children to grow up in peace."

Is this simply ignorance, or lack of regeneration?

Hi jlosinski...

jlosinski wrote:
According to Newsweek, on the 23rd of Oct., President Bush met with several Muslim women from the Middle East.

"When it comes to my views on Muslims, I believe that we pray to the same God," he told the women, according to a person at the meeting who, like others quoted in this story, asked for anonymity speaking about private conversations. "I believe we share in the same beliefs. I believe Muslim mothers want their children to grow up in peace."

Is this simply ignorance, or lack of regeneration?

Before we make such a claim, let's make sure that we at least get that right. An anonymous source said that President Bush said that; We don't know for sure if he said those exact words.

:-(

Thanks for the response, I understand the concern, especially concerning the amount of media sources that choose to remain conveniently annonoymous :roll: (did I spell that right?), however, past comments by President Bush would seem to correlate with this account- he spoke at a DC mosque's 50th anniversary in 2007:
"Calling the mosque’s anniversary a “celebration of America’s diversity of faith and our unity as free people,” Bush quoted the poet Rumi: “The lamps are different, but the light is the same.”

I'm not trying to be a conspiracy theorist, or slam President Bush, but since he is a very high profile "evangelical" I am questioning whether this is a case of ignorance, lack of regeneration, or perhaps it is me being too critical... I figured that it fit with the rest of the thread. Soo, can a regenerated Christian uphold beliefs that contradict our essential doctrines? Perhaps out of ignorance?

Hi Brother...

jlosinski wrote:
Thanks for the response, I understand the concern, especially concerning the amount of media sources that choose to remain conveniently annonoymous :roll: (did I spell that right?), however, past comments by President Bush would seem to correlate with this account- he spoke at a DC mosque's 50th anniversary in 2007:
"Calling the mosque’s anniversary a “celebration of America’s diversity of faith and our unity as free people,” Bush quoted the poet Rumi: “The lamps are different, but the light is the same.”

I'm not trying to be a conspiracy theorist, or slam President Bush, but since he is a very high profile "evangelical" I am questioning whether this is a case of ignorance, lack of regeneration, or perhaps it is me being too critical... I figured that it fit with the rest of the thread. Soo, can a regenerated Christian uphold beliefs that contradict our essential doctrines? Perhaps out of ignorance?

Of course, we don't even know the extent of what the President really said. I have seen so many rumors from emails and the internet that later proved to be partially or even entirely incorrect.

I think that we should wait until after the President has "retired" from his two terms in office and then writes his memoirs before we actually try to determine his beliefs from a few rumored statements. If I had a dime for every time I read a quote that wasn't entirely accurate in the New York Times, Washington Post or even USA Today -- I would be a very wealthy man. However, our words are not nearly as "set in stone" as the indisputable words of our Lord. I think that we have all "slipped" from time to time.

The President has shared his testimony in the past. Only the Lord and he know the validity of that testimony...or the meaning behind any words that he has ever spoken.

Thanks for the note. I didn't mean to knitpick. I just hope that we can all be careful about making a distinction between fact and rumor (as difficult a task as that might be). I am so aware of my inability to do so at times!

Thanks ccchhhiiirrrsss (chris? christopher?),
I appreciate not speaking too hastily, I was just reading Proverb 17:28 "Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise..."
I suppose the scenario would be different if President Bush held a position of authority in the church, and was spouting this stuff off. As it is, he is a layman, but my concern is the public platform that he holds. I'm done with newsweek, to me it's turning into the equivilant of "People" magazine, as far a substance goes. I just got a subscription to Answers Magazine from Answers in Genesis.

Hi thingsabove...

thingsabove wrote:
This interview of Pres. Bush with Charlie Gibson should clarify the Pres. position on muslims and christians praying to the same God. He says we do pray to same God and that muslims and christians both go to heaven. If this link dosen't work just go to youtube and type in "bush on god" and you'll see the interview pop up.

Do you work? Do you work in an official capacity at any job where you are not the boss? If so, you know the danger of saying something that you believe personally while serving in an official capacity. I know that this is difficult to understand for some people. I worked at a state university for several years. When I either worked in an Archives...or teaching in the classroom, I wasn't permitted to share everything that I thought about this world, its systems, its religions, its culturees or even its leaders. To speak like that would have been resulted in, according to the University, the misuse of my position to preach opinion.

Does a doctor who is performing an initial health screening at a major hospital for a woman who wants cosmetic plastic surgery for vanity's sake immediately stop and preach that it is selfishly immoral? While he certainly shouldn't lie...you understand that he was hired for a job to represent his Hippocratic Oath AND to represent the hospital. In interviews with the President, a very confrontational media asks questions to a President in which he answers from his official position. He knows that the world is watching. So the temptation might be there to NOT say what HE thinks, but what the position of the government might be. Could you imagine the world's reaction if he said, "[i]I think all Muslims are worshipping a false god and Muhammad was a lying, self-absorbed pedophile[/i]"? It would have been honest (at least from what we know to be true), but I have a sneaking suspicion that there would be many more planes hitting buildings. Hopefully, you can see the temptation of a flawed man in answering such pointed questions.

This interview of Pres. Bush .... should clarify the Pres. position on muslims and christians praying to the same God.

Your statement could be applied to David's sin with Bathsheba. Did his actions "clarify" David's position about adultery? Or was he simply caught up in sin? Did Peter's "live like a Jew" instructions to Gentiles "clarify" Peter's position about our physical conduct? No, because even he himself was living like a Gentile...and he already knew that he should not call something unclean that God has made clean.

Do you see the difference? An answer...or even a series of answers...might not actually "clarify" anything that we believe. How many times have individuals on this wonderful website's forums given very well written and articulate answers for which they later repented? We are all flawed men...and we have all been guilty of saying or doing something that we hope wouldn't "clarify our position" on such things. Words are very powerful...but they are also quite deceptive. If one listened to some of Obama's speeches, you would think that he truly wanted to save the lives of unborn babies! Yet his positions are clear by both his actions, his long history in the Illinois state legislature, and by what he says when he isn't trying to obtain the votes of those who don't approve of abortion. The same can be said of every candidate...and even every man. It is unwise to believe that their words can actually "clarify" anything less we fall more readily to deception.

Please don't misunderstand me: I don't approve of or agree with what the President might have said in this interview. I just don't think that it is wise to think that such an interview should actually "clarify" his own personal position on anything.

Actually, Krispy, this was the rule for anyone in our University (regardless of faith, nonfaith or ideology). Of course, those with tenure know that they can "bend the rules." Yet a Muslim professor was actually fired for sharing his beliefs a few years ago in the same University (and department, no less).

But yes, there is an unfair practice of applying such a "standard" to Christians. Perhaps it is because we are the "evangelical" ones?