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In Obama We Trust ??

F
firstfruit Nov 8, 2008

Dear sisters and brothers in Christ Jesus our LORD;

Our true citizenship and home is in heaven; this I know and believe.

But I am deeply troubled by this recent U.S. presidential election. The entire process has had a different attitude or spirit that I don't ever recall in previous elections.

While waiting at the polling site for my turn to vote I saw several young people also in line to vote.
They wore t-shirts with a disturbing slogan -

IN OBAMA WE TRUST

May God help us; I fear this nation is heading toward its most dangerous era.


Jude:

"And now, all glory to GOD, who is able to keep you from stumbling and who will bring you into His glorius presence innocent of sin and with great joy. All glory to Him, who alone is GOD our Savior, through Jesus Christ our LORD. Yes, glory, majesty, power, and authority belong to Him, in the beginnig, now, and forevermore. Amen.

M
MJones Nov 8, 2008

Speaking of which, the church may have just unknowingly signed up for 'Trust 101'.

G
ginnyrose Nov 17, 2008

The entire process has had a different attitude or spirit that I don't ever recall in previous elections.

I, too, have noticed this. In years past the election was similar to sports teams battling each other to win, but not so this time! There was something very different.

I am not in 'conspiracy theories' looking for hidden meanings in things I do not understand but there is something I have noticed in the political realm. I am 61 years old and the earliest election I remember was in the 50's between Adlai Stevenson and Dwight Eisenhower.

When I reached my teens, I took an intense interest in political affairs which was quite unusual for a young female. And I maintained that intense interest until Watergate, which dampened it considerably. But as time went on, it experienced a moderate resurrection!

Now, what I saw happening was when there was a change in presidents, he will embrace, pursue policies the previous administration thought was too liberal, unworkable or whatever. It did not matter who was became president it always happened. Something started to look strange to me: who is ruling this country? Is the president a mere figurehead for some underground 'government'? and they allow him to do things to fool people into believing the current president is in charge?

This has been my observation and as time marches on nothing has happened to convince me otherwise. Whether there is an expert out there who will agree with me, I do not know, but it has happened too often....

Now have a blessed day!

ginnyrose

sermonindex Nov 17, 2008

I always wondered how the world could possibly follow one leader (anti-Christ)... and worship him... and then I saw the reactions around the world to Obama's election victory. That was a glimpse of what is to come.

Before someone flames me, I am [b]not[/b] saying that Obama is the anti-Christ. Just saying that the reaction to him around the world has a cultish feeling to it. Very strange... especially considering we don't know anything about the guy, and he has done nothing politically. He has no resume.

If he had done some great thing, or accomplished something astounding I could understand it...

Krispy

sermonindex Nov 17, 2008

I remember in 2000 my mother in law was talking about all the modern day prophets 'being led' to go down to Florida and pray for Pres Bush to get elected. Dutch Sheets, Chuck Pierce (not certain) and some others were at the inauguration 'binding over spirits' and blessing the office. I get the feeling that many in the church were looking at the office of President and more specifically the office holder in similar light then as those in the secular world see Obama.

With crisis after crisis and the corruption of many political offices (on both sides), the secular world is desperate for a 'savior'. They know not what they do. But the church, I think, put too much on the shoulders of George Bush and should have known better. Like one lady stated before this election on this forum "we stopped praying for the Presidential Office because we thought we had the 'right guy' in". I'll let her speak for herself there but I know that many thought George Bush was the answer to our ills and put more faith in him than they should have.

Ravenhill said over 30 years ago "we want to get Washington right but we can't even get our own house straight. We want to trade the Prayer Office for the Oval Office." I believe Brother Ravenhill was speaking prophetically here.

Obama's charisma and cool is eerily manifested in this movement of support and almost 'messianic' status.

This is all on the heels of a Todd Bentley movement that spurred the church into a false hyper frenzy. Within the past six months we have seen movements in the church blindly following a false prophet and a secular world practically throwing themselves at a hyper-charismatic political leader. We need discernment, sobriety, and unceasing prayer in these times.

People are hungry for many things that only God can give them. But many in the church, and the secular world, are feeding at the wrong trough.

L
Limey153 Nov 17, 2008

I always wondered how the world could possibly follow one leader (anti-Christ)... and worship him... and then I saw the reactions around the world to Obama's election victory. That was a glimpse of what is to come.

I agree Krispy. Even here in the UK there is alot of hype regarding Obama. When George. W. Bush came to power there alot of people debating wether he would be a good leader or not. However, with Obama it seems that everybody has already made up their minds and decided straight off that he is good.

Here on SI there are a series of sermons by David Pawson regarding the book of Revelation. He points out in these sermons that before the events mentioned in Revelation occur, God brings us a warning, a kind of forshadowing of that event in order to warn us the impending disaster. For example he compares 9/11 with Revelation 18 (the great city brought to ruin in an hour), that 9/11 was a warning or forshadowing of this event.

Maybe (and I greatly stress the point MAYBE!!), Obama will be a warning of the tryanny to come?

sermonindex Nov 17, 2008

When George. W. Bush came to power ...

Thats an interesting way of putting it. Here in the US we dont use that terminology in regards to our elected officials. The "power" is in the hands of "We the people..." (supposedly). A government for the people, of the people and by the people.

I understand what you meant, I'm just explaining as an American it struck me odd to hear it put that way. It's just our mindset, I suppose.

And if Obama makes a mess of things in the next 4 years hopefully "We the people..." will kick him to the curb too.

Thats just how we do things around here. :-)

Krispy

L
Limey153 Nov 17, 2008

And if Obama makes a mess of things in the next 4 years hopefully "We the people..." will kick him to the curb too.

There is a well known book called 'The Anti-Christ and a cup of tea' which makes a very compelling argument for Prince Charles being the Anti-Christ. Incidently I have not read the book myself but instead seen a video presentation made by the author. Though I would not make any definate statement on who is the Anti Christ it is certainly very interesting.

One big concern when a country has a monarchy is that there is no "kicking them to the curb", as you put it. Once they are in, they are in for most probably a very long time.

sermonindex Nov 17, 2008

Yes, thats why our founding fathers had the forsight to institute 2 and 4 year terms. To avoid a forever ruling monarchy.

Prince Charles? The anti-Christ? Wow, never would have entered my mind. Probably just my American ignorance, but I don't see where Prince Charles wields much power over anything. Isn't the royal family more like a "figure-head"?

There was a popular movie here in the states back in the very early 1990's called "King Ralph", and is about a lovable loser American guy who suddenly is thrust into the position of "King of England" due to the entire royal family being whiped out in a freak accident. Somehow this guy happened to be a distance cousin to the royal family. After he's been crowned I remember he asks one of his aides if he has the power to fix the nation's problems... and the aide says "No, you don't have the power to fix the nations problems, and unfortunately there isnt anything that prevents you from causing them!"

Thought that was funny.

Krispy

L
Limey153 Nov 17, 2008

The royal family certainly does not have the grip that they once had and it is a widely held view even in the UK that they are more of a 'celebrity family' these days. But contrary to popular belief the royal family have more involvement than people realise.

If anyone is interested I have attached the link below for the video of 'The anti-christ and a cup of tea'. But I would point out to folk right away that as compelling as Tim Cohens arguments are (the author), the Bible should always be our first point of reference.

P.S. Sorry, don't mean to hijack this thread.

[url=http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8938353306894341039&q]Anti-Christ and a cup of tea - video link[/url]

sermonindex Nov 17, 2008

Great! Thanx for provinding the link. I'm looking forward to seeing it.

Krispy

D
dscplmkr Nov 24, 2008

Like it or not, We still have a representative form of government.

This may have just been for me to close the door to fear as I watched what is being discussed here, on election night. I was struck by a thought when I saw the now famous picture of President-elect Obama "hope".

That is, These three remain Faith Hope and Love.

President G.W.Bush represented "faith", I can only speak from my experience, but it appears to me this has been a season where faith has been purified. I can with confidence say my faith in God has matured more during his term than at any other time.

The thought continued that after this comes the greatest of these "Love"

I don't know if that will be in the form of a representative or Love Himself but either way I am excited to press on in the hope to which He has called me.

D
dohzman Nov 24, 2008

2Jn 1:10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.
2Jn 1:11 Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.


Many christians by thier vote sided with Obama and in a sense bidded him godspeed. As the judgements of God fall on this country and the righteous as well as the wicked fall together, many in the church will wonder where this God of protection is. The sword is coming but are the righteous repenting, is the warning going out? I really don't believe so. I know of very sincere people who sided with Obama just because he was african american. They considered not what he stood for. They placed themselves in the same path of destruction as an unbeliever and for what? Pride? To prove a point? We want change? Well we'll have change, it won't be what we want but we'll have change. The judgement of God will accelarate in nature and after a brief time the econmy will continue its downward spiral. The true church will continue to get greater and greater assult from the media and now with america s leadership turning a deaf ear to what takes place against the church instruments like the IRS and other factions will go on the direct attack with increasing regularity, almost becoming a daily news flash in the american church world. For all you brothers and sisters in other countries, you'll see the day when most american church giving will cease, and the impact will be felt and will be severe at first until you start depending on the Lord alone for your supply. Pro 24:12 If you say, ";But we didn't know about this,";
won't He who weighs hearts consider it?
Won't He who protects your life know?
Won't He repay a person according to his work?

Eze 33:1 The word of the Lord came to me:
Eze 33:2 "Son of man, speak to your people and tell them: Suppose I bring the sword against a land, and the people of that land select a man from among them, appointing him as their watchman,
Eze 33:3 and he sees the sword coming against the land and blows his trumpet to warn the people.
Eze 33:4 Then, if anyone hears the sound of the trumpet but ignores the warning, and the sword comes and takes him away, his blood will be on his own head.
Eze 33:5 [Since] he heard the sound of the trumpet but ignored the warning, his blood is on his own hands. If he had taken warning, he would have saved his life.
Eze 33:6 However, if the watchman sees the sword coming but doesn't blow the trumpet, so that the people aren't warned, and the sword comes and takes away their lives, then they have been taken away because of their iniquity, but I will hold the watchman accountable for their blood.
Eze 33:7 "As for you, son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel. When you hear a word from My mouth, give them a warning from Me. etc...... rest of chapter

sermonindex Nov 24, 2008

The judgment of this nation began long before this election. The American church has been brewing another Gospel for some time now. The 70's and 80's saw an upswing in national moralism that put personal holiness at a distance and the prayer closet with cobwebs. The prosperity Gospels and the rise of false prophets have swept the church into a self-serving faith with national moralism as a saving grace.

To the point of faith in terms of Presidential rule I give all that credit to God. My faith has increased tremendously during the Bush presidency but that has nothing to do with him. And anything that may increase or decrease my faith in the next four years will have nothing to do with Obama.

God raised and lowered leaders to punish Israel for rampant adultery, the Bible never blamed the leadership that ruled them, the culpability and blame was unequivocally on God's people. As soon as the American church stops blaming leadership and starts looking to itself as the problem and repent the faster we can produce for the Kingdom of God. It won't come through politics.

Cal Thomas said this in a recent article about it:

"Too many conservative Evangelicals mistake political power for influence. Politicians who struggle with imposing a moral code on themselves are unlikely to succeed in their attempts to impose it on others. What is the answer, then, for conservative Evangelicals who are rightly concerned about the corrosion of culture, the indifference to the value of human life and the living arrangements of same- and opposite-sex couples? If results are what conservative Evangelicals want, they already have a model. It is contained in the life and commands of Jesus of Nazareth. Suppose millions of conservative Evangelicals engaged in an old and proven type of radical behavior. Suppose they followed the admonition of Jesus to “love your enemies, pray for those who persecute you, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit those in prison and care for widows and orphans,” not as ends, as so many liberals do by using government, but as a means of demonstrating God’s love for the whole person in order that people might seek Him?

Such a strategy could be more “transformational” than electing a new president, even the first president of color. But in order to succeed, such a strategy would not be led by charismatic figures, who would raise lots of money, be interviewed on Sunday talk shows, author books and make gobs of money.

Scripture teaches that God’s power (if that is what conservative Evangelicals want and not their puny attempts at grabbing earthly power) is made perfect in weakness. He speaks of the tiny mustard seed, the seemingly worthless widow’s mite, of taking the last place at the table and the humbling of one’s self, the washing of feet and similar acts and attitudes; the still, small voice. How did conservative Evangelicals miss this and instead settle for a lesser power, which in reality is no power at all? When did they settle for an inferior “kingdom”?

Evangelicals are at a junction. They can take the path that will lead them to more futility and ineffective attempts to reform culture through government, or they can embrace the far more powerful methods outlined by the One they claim to follow. By following His example, they will decrease, but He will increase. They will get no credit, but they will see results."

The only mandate Scripture has for God's chosen is simple: obedience to ruling authorities and prayer for them. Honestly, I don't know if Obama is a judgment on this nation, but I can see where people would perceive this. But I do know that if I'm preconcievibly convinced that it is a judgment, the less likely I am to pray.

I will say this and it may ruffle some feathers but I truly believe it. If the last eight years was an Obama rule many Christians would say it was a judgment on this nation. Therefore I don't look at the state of the leader but the state of the church in determining judgment. I truly believe that we will see a rise of homosexual marriage, or attempts at such, and other immoralities and possible restrictions on the church. But God can do wonders even in the midst of such immorality if the church would clean itself up and cry out to Christ in fervency and patience. If anything this could be a judgment on the church for putting faith in politics and activism to change the morality of a nation in the exchange for personal Godliness, the prayer closet, and faith in Christ Himself.

We've 'McDonaldized' God's power in this nation. We think it needs to be as instant as a one hundred fold return on money given to the TV Evangelist. Patience, perseverance, longsuffering are the staples of the New Testament church. Ask Paul, Peter and John.


sermonindex Nov 24, 2008

[b]ccrider[/b]... I like you! You're singin' my song, bro!

Krispy

sermonindex Nov 24, 2008

Thanks for the comment Brother Krispy... trying to keep perspective.... we're all in this together bro, I take solace in that.

D
dohzman Nov 26, 2008

ccrider----I read what you said and have heard Cal Thomas and read some of his stuff. But you didn't hear what I said. I simply said that this election many christians by thier vote, for the first time in many many years placed themselves on the side of a man whose doctrines/policies are anti-christian and pro-demonic, it was the young vote as well as the christian black vote that carried Obama. By thier vote they decided that reguardless of what he stood for they were going to ignore conscience and or christian values or at the very least the clear principles of Gods Word, and they would in a delibert act exercise self will over the entire ball of wax.
I understand that God has been judging this nation, but this time it is different, many christians will fall in the same judgements as those who are unbelievers. The pulpits can't sound a warning because most pulpits have become pretty self-serving in and of themselves. That is all I was saying. Make no mistake, I've seen our country all the way to the anti-christ's proclaimation, its not a pretty picture.

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