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Devotional

Can you try and be holy?

sermonindex Nov 12, 2008

Our calling is not primarily to be holy women,(or men) but to work
for God and for others with Him. Our holiness is an effect,
not a cause; so long as our eyes are on our own personal
whiteness as an end in itself, the thing breaks down. God can
do nothing while my interest is in my own personal character--
He will take care of this if I obey His call. In learning to
love God and people as He commanded us to do, obviously your
sanctification cannot but come, but not as an end in itself.
... Florence Allshorn (1887-1950), Notebooks [1957]

R
rbanks Nov 12, 2008

True Holiness is of the Lord imparted to the believer as He beholds the Lord through the mirror of His Word.

I believe the scripture teaches that we must “be” before we can “do”. We don’t do to become but we become so that we can do. The disciples were to tarry until. The apostle’s were sanctified by faith in Christ and filled with the Holy Ghost before they were sent. God qualifies those he calls. It is not those who went but those who were sent.

Although we can not wait on perfect holiness before we do anything of the Lord, we must have before we can give. We are to grow in holiness as we go with the Lord and His work. Let us also not think that our doing will contribute to our holiness because as we know our holiness is of the Lord and only as we are in the Lord.

sermonindex Nov 12, 2008

Hi rbanks. That was a vague enough reply :)You write

"True Holiness is of the Lord imparted to the believer as He beholds the Lord through the mirror of His Word."

Not really sure what you mean by that, I think I do yet perhaps clarification would be good. To the babe in Christ that statement might not make a lot of sense. If you like, its "Christianeze speak." So, expound if you please :) Here is some plain speaking below that we can all relate too.......

Act 3:12 And seeing this, Peter answered the people, Men, Israelites, why do you marvel at this? Or why do you stare at us, as though we had made this man to walk by our own power or holiness?

As someone who is a born-again believer and Spirit filled, I have found that Christ is glorified in my weakness. When I am weak then He is strong. It is my humility, my brokeness that leads me into His presence. I am humbled because when I read His Word I realize how far short I fall. I am broken and surrendered because I know that I can "do," nothing. All of this leads me into His presence. And its in His presence that I am sanctified. Its because of being in the presence of the Living God that I am horrified at my own state. And out of that I am changed, just because of Him and my love for Him. I know that my sin seperates me from Him and its out of my desire to fellowship with Him that I humble myself and am broken before Him.

Psalm 51.. "Behold, You desire truth in the inward parts; and in the hidden part You shall make me to know wisdom. Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean; wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which You have broken may rejoice. Hide Your face from my sins, and blot out all my iniquities. Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me.
Cast me not away from Your presence, and take not Your Holy Spirit from me.Restore to me the joy of Your salvation, and uphold me with a willing spirit. Then I will teach transgressors Your ways; and sinners shall be converted to You."

As a Catholic I had many rules to keep and I broke them all, they were burdensome to me. As a born-again Christian, I no longer want to "not break rules." Its because of my love for my Jesus that I do not want to harm Him in any way. Its what motivates my whole life. His love for me and my love for Him. Out of this Love flows everything else. My sanctification, my desire to read the Word, my desire to follow the Words of Jesus. Out of my love, out of my fellowhsip with Him comes everything. It is in this place that we change. Any other starting point ends in self-righteousness for we know that in our flesh there is no good thing.........brother Frank

S
sojourner7 Nov 14, 2008

Frank, here's something from Oswald Chambers
in regards to the question:

"Do I believe I need to holy ?? {see your need}
"Do I believe God can come into me and make
me holy ?? {see your Saviour}
"If by your preaching you convince me I am
unholy, I then resent your preaching. The
preaching of the gospel awakens an intense
resentment because it must reveal that I
am unholy; but it also awakens an intense
craving {once God has convicted, He will
awaken a sense of forgiveness and redemption}
God has one destined end for mankind, which is;
holiness. His one aim is the production of
saints. God is NOT an eternal-blessing
machine for men; and He did not come to save
men out of pity; He came to save men because
He created them to be holy."

sermonindex Nov 15, 2008

appolus,
you said you are born-again, Spirit filled, humble, broken, surrendered, and wholly motivated by love for your Jesus. Do you obey Christ's commands?
Ben

sermonindex Nov 15, 2008

Hi Ben

You write ..........

"appolus,
you said you are born-again, Spirit filled, humble, broken, surrendered, and wholly motivated by love for your Jesus. Do you obey Christ's commands?
Ben

Actually Ben, I did not write that......brother Frank

sermonindex Nov 15, 2008

appolus, will you forgive me?

I thought you were "brother Frank"
Who is Frank? It sounds like I might not be able to ask him my question.

Thank you,
Ben

sermonindex Nov 15, 2008

HI Ben

I am appolus and my name is Frank , one and the same :) My comment was that I did not write what you said that I had written. If you give me an actual quote then I would be glad to comment or answer a question on that....brother Frank

sermonindex Nov 15, 2008

Hi Frank :)
Did you write the parts that are not bible verses or were you quoting another writer?
Thanks,
Ben

sermonindex Nov 15, 2008

HI Ben....yes I did. If I did not write it I would have credited the "writer." When you write "appolus said," you have to quote what I said. When you re-arrange what someone said and put it back together again, it can often mis-represent what the author actually said. That is why it is important to actually quote. Does that make sense ?.........brother Frank

sermonindex Nov 16, 2008

Frank,
I understand that can happen. I don't think it just did though. But I don't feel good about the way I brought up that question with you. Some of the things you said sounded a lot like people I know who like to sound very spiritual but laugh at fearing God and obedience. That is no excuse, however, for me to not be more trusting and humble if I want to ask someone about things like that. I'd still like to leave the question part out there though if you will forgive me for being rash. I feel like I was being proud. I'm sorry if I offended you. If you'd rather, since I barged into your devotional thread and am feeling more embarrassed the more I think about it, we could save it for another thread. - Ben

sermonindex Nov 16, 2008

Hi Brother Ben

:) I am smiling because I feel that your last post was sincere. I did not feel that way about the previous post which had asked me a question that felt to me like a "gotcha," question. I much prefer truth spoken in love, even if it is hard. So, now that we are on firmer ground I believe I can respond to you.

I think they key word for me in my little post was "when." I started out with that word and thought I had set the scene, so perhaps I was not very good and conveying that. When I am humble, or when I am contrite and broken, it is the "when," that is the key. Humility ushers me into the presence of God. In order to be humble, I must have a clear picture of who I am.(edited upon reading...I can only have a clear picture of who I am when I am standing in His presence.The light from Jesus, illuminates my own state) When I have a clear picture of who I am, I realize that I am weak, and that I have fallen short and that I have sinned before a Holy God. Indeed, a cry of "Woe is me, I am a man of unclean lips," would be appropriate. And as with everything else in our Christianity, it is all about abiding. A continuous action verb. Not a one time deal. So can I say I am broken? No. What I can tell you that I have been broken, and I have a continued need to be broken and contrite before my Lord. Am I surrendered? No. Have I been surrendered? Yes. Again, I must abide in that state. It is not a one time deal. Much like being filled with the Holy Spirit, again, not a one time deal, we must continue to be filled. So thae answer to those points is yes and no. I have been filled, I have been broken, I have been humbled and I have been surrendered. To say otherwise would not be true. To claim that I had arrived at those states would be folly and not following the Holy Spirits direction of "beware when you stand lest you fall." I am not sure where , from my post, or anything that I had ever written that would give you the idea that I would " laugh at fearing God and obedience."

So, your question is "Do you obey Christ's commands? To the degree that I am surrendered brother, yes I do.

Just a thought when we are talking about this subject. It is vital that we have balance in our relationship with the Lord. Having said everything that we have said above, we must always remember that thos of us that have been saved are a redeemed people. We are the children of God. We are sons and daughters of the most High God, we are priests and priestesses in a Royal Priesthood. We walk , not as wretched men who need delivering from this body of death, but as redeemed men who walk after the Spirit of God who gives us life. I would not no part with any notion that we cannot strive towards a victorious life. Too many times have I seen and heard Christians using this argument, or Romans 7 to suggest that we cannot live a life of victory, so why bother, and they use it to justify their sin. We serve a victorious God who evercame. And while we acknowledge that their is sin in the flesh, and that this will not change until that which is corruptable is raised in incorruption, we are still called to live a holy life. Examples of victory would be too numerous to number. But in a society wher divorce is rampant, Christians ! do not get divorced ! In a society where one hates his enemies, political or otherwise , Christians ! Love your enemies! You see, this is overcoming. This is following the commands of the Lord. In a society where one renders evil for evil Christians! Do not do that! Break the chains with your love. Respond in love, live the sermon on the mount. Every single thing that Jesus taught His followers to do is possible, and only those walking in the Spirit can achieve these things.For, while they are possible, they are only possible in the supernatural, not in the natural. So, it is just as well that we follow a supernatural God who can enable us to do all those things. Who will He enable? And here we come full circle. He will enable the Humble, the broken, the surrendered, the contrite. Its all about Him. And the closer we get to Him, the more that we can become like Him. And the more that we can become like Him, the more that we follow His commands and the more that we follow His commands, the more that our light so shines before men. And to those who shine this light before men and lift up the name of Jesus and draw all men to Him, they are only to aware that it is all Him and that it is not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit says the Lord.....................brother Frank

sermonindex Nov 16, 2008

Hi Frank, I appreciate your patience with me. Thank you.

Can I ask you a yes or no question?
Do christians sin?

sermonindex Nov 16, 2008

Hi Ben...I have never met one who did not. I feel that there is a point coming ;-)

sermonindex Nov 16, 2008

It is a very important point but not my point to make. It's God who gets to make the good points. I'm not trying to trick you or manipulate you. I really did regret the way I approached this at first. I assumed your winking thing means you think I'm still being sneaky. Most importantly however I see that you didn't want to be asked a yes or no question nor did you want to answer this particular one. You haven't hurt my feelings or anything like that. I don't want to just preach at you though.

sermonindex Nov 16, 2008

Hi Ben...I am just not sure why you do not make the point? I do not mind at all being asked a yes or no question if I believe that there is a yes or no answer. In this particular case, I have answerd your question. The smiley face is just for keeping it light and friendly. You write......

'Most importantly however I see that you didn't want to be asked a yes or no question nor did you want to answer this particular one'

Ben, that is simply not true. I am not really sure where you are coming from my friend. As we had already discussed, I did not answer your previously asked question because you framed it incorrectly, and then I took a long time to show you where I was coming from in my last post,which, I may add, you did not comment on at all. So here is what I suggest brother, if you have a point to make otr a question to ask, just make the point or ask the question :-) Its really not that hard :-) ...........Frank

sermonindex Nov 18, 2008

Frank if you don't mind I'm not going to pursue this any further. I don't feel right about saying anything more here. I'd be glad to talk to you in general though. It's not like I want to ignore you. Sorry for taking a while to get back but I had give it some consideration. Thank you - Ben

E
elected Nov 18, 2008

Quote:
God has one destined end for mankind, which is;
holiness. His one aim is the production of
saints. - Oswald Chambers

Without holiness no men shall see the Lord.
We were predestined to be in the immage of the Son of God.

E
elected Nov 18, 2008


The more i try to be holy the more i sink in the miry pit, the more self rightous i become. The more i try to make myself rightous and holy the more miserable and cast down i feel.I think many honest christians like me have gone through this experience and after a while we have realized that we are under the bondage of the mosaic moral law. We try sometimes to obey God in the disguise of the flesh and spiritual pride.

Only Jesus can make us holy and the condition he requires of us is faith in Him.Sanctification is by faith only in Christ just as justification is by faith only. Good works dont sanctify us they are the result of a genuine faith that works by love.

"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." Eph. 2:10

If we abandon ourself to God's providence, and that means we believe God is in control and everything that happend to us will work out for our good. If we live in total surrender to his devine will and hunger and thirst for rightiousness, God will take care of the rest.

It does not matter how zealous you are for God, how much work you do for him in his kingdom, if his presence is not in you and with you in what you do, soon or later you will be worn out and exhausted or worse the sense of accomplishment and success as a worker in his vineyard will make you self-rightious and your ego or "I" will increase and usurp the place of Christ in the throne of your heart.

Apostle Paul taught chrristians to "to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness." This new self is already holy and rightous,we dont make our new self holy and rightous.We partake of the divine nature in Christ Jesus when we as branches abide in the True Vine and the words of Jesus remain in us.

Jesus is the source of grace and holiness

Blessings,
Redi

All the my works of rightousness are filthy rags in the sight of God. If i do His works then they are acceptable in his sight

sermonindex Nov 26, 2008

Dear Redi

Amen to that brother.I have nothing to add to what you say, only to say amen and that you have captured the essence of what is the means to be holy. The means to be Holy is Jesus alone, its all about Jesus and dwelling in His presence. That may be to simple for many, but if we stay close to Him, if we love and desire to be in His presence , then comes everything else. To gaze upon Jesus is sanctification. To remove our eyes and look at Holiness is to begin a work, yet, we have ceased from our works and entered into His rest which is why, what He requires of us is not burdensome, it simply flows from His presence..............Frank

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