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Theology

Hebrews 6:4-6

sermonindex Nov 19, 2008

[size=small][b]Hebrews 6:4-6[/b][/size]

[b]New International Version (NIV)[/b]
[b]4[/b] [color=cc0000][b]It is impossible[/b][/color] for those who have [u]once been enlightened[/u], who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in [u]the Holy Spirit[/u], [b]5[/b] who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, [b]6[/b] if they fall away, [color=cc0000][b]to be brought back to repentance[/b][/color], because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

[b]New King James Version (NKJV)[/b]
[b]4[/b] For [color=cc0000][b]it is impossible[/b][/color] for those who were [u]once enlightened[/u], and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of [u]the Holy Spirit[/u], [b]5[/b] and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [b]6[/b] if they fall away, [color=cc0000][b]to renew them again to repentance[/b][/color], since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

[b]New Living Translation (NLT)[/b]
[b]4[/b] For [color=cc0000][b]it is impossible to bring back to repentance[/b][/color] those who were [u]once enlightened[/u]—those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in [u]the Holy Spirit[/u], [b]5[/b] who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come—[b]6[/b] and who then turn away from God. [color=cc0000][b]It is impossible to bring such people back to repentance[/b][/color]; by rejecting the Son of God, they themselves are nailing him to the cross once again and holding him up to public shame.

[b]Young's Literal Translation (YLT)[/b]
[b]4[/b] for [color=cc0000][b][it is] impossible[/b][/color] for those [u]once enlightened[/u], having tasted also of the heavenly gift, and partakers having became of [u]the Holy Spirit[/u],
[b]5[/b] and did taste the good saying of God, the powers also of the coming age,
[b]6[/b] and having fallen away, again [color=cc0000][b]to renew [them] to reformation[/b][/color], having crucified again to themselves the Son of God, and exposed to public shame.

[b]New American Standard Bible (NASB)[/b]
[b]4[/b] For in the case of those who have [u]once been enlightened[/u] and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of [u]the Holy Spirit[/u],
[b]5[/b] and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
[b]6[/b] and then have fallen away, [color=cc0000][b]it is impossible to renew them again to repentance[/b][/color], since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

E
EvangelistC Nov 22, 2008

excellent passage.

W
White_Stone Nov 22, 2008

When we read Hebrews the other day, I wondered about Peter denying Jesus 3 x's. Not sure of the application here. Anyone care to explain their view on it.

Also, reading of Christian's in Laos who have been forced to deny their Faith or see their children starve. What about that.

Not that this is a faith breaker for me but I am curious.

Thanks for posting, it opened a door for me to ask about these points.

Best regards,
white stone

sermonindex Nov 23, 2008

White Stone,
That was actually before Pentecost when the Holy Spirit filled Peter and the others. The verse is talking about Spirit filled christians.
I don't know about Laos specifically but the children who died innocently will be on thrones for eternity with the Lord Jesus so their parents actually did a much more noble thing than feeding them, sending them to college or whatever silly worldly concerns.
If they denied Jesus and their children saw it then they may as well have denied their own children as well.

W
White_Stone Nov 23, 2008

"That was actually before Pentecost when the Holy Spirit filled Peter and the others. The verse is talking about Spirit filled christians."

Thank you, benjoseph,

I understand now. Praise the Lord!

ws

P
passerby Nov 24, 2008

"That was actually before Pentecost when the Holy Spirit filled Peter and the others. The verse is talking about Spirit filled christians."

It could be that I did not get the intended meaning of the above statement.

The Lord Jesus said this before the pentecost:

Joh 14:17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.

Joh 14:18 "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

sermonindex Nov 24, 2008

The Lord Jesus said this before the pentecost:

Joh 14:17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.

Joh 14:18 "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

Hi Passerby,

I thought of that first verse also. It says dwells [b]with[/b] you and [b]will[/b] be [b]in[/b] you.

Which reminds me of this passage (Col 1:27)

24 Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ's afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church. 25I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness— 26 the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints. 27 To them [b]God has chosen to make known[/b] among the Gentiles the glorious riches of [b]this mystery, which is Christ [u]in[/u] you[/b], the hope of glory.

Do you think that they had Christ in them instead of dwelling with them when they were filled with the Holy Spirit?
Do you think that denying Christ when he is living in you is a lot worse than what Peter wept over?

Does that explain what I meant?

Ben

P
passerby Nov 24, 2008

Do you think that they had Christ in them instead of dwelling with them when they were filled with the Holy Spirit?

They dwell in them yes, and also dwells with them.

Do you think that denying Christ when he is living in you is a lot worse than what Peter wept over?

I am thinking that this is related to the context of Hebrew 6:4-6. Can you give enlightenment on these very controversial verses.

B
bible1985 Nov 25, 2008

that verse is used by many to say that you can lose your salvation but in verse 9 paul reminds us christians that it is impossible for a true spirit filled christian to do so. It said something like i am persuaded better things of you and the things that accompany salvation. I do not think a true born again believer who has come to know jesus personally would ever want to leave him completely, maybe fall into sin but never leave him.

H
hmmhmm Nov 25, 2008


bible1985 wrote:
I do not think a true born again believer who has come to know jesus personally would ever want to leave him completely, maybe fall into sin but never leave him.

To sin is to leave Him. He does not accompany you to your sin or support it or have any part of it.

Those who love God keep his commandments, when we sin, fall is a bad word because it makes it sound like an accident. Sin is not. sin is willfull rebellion towards God. Yes there is unconcius sin to, but known sin is never an accident. It is a choice to leave God and chose SIN instead whatever, if it is fornication or a prideful thought. Its departure from God.

Repentance is returning....to return you must have left somewhere, in this case God.

B
BenK Nov 25, 2008

hmmhmm said:

"Yes there is unconcius sin to, but known sin is never an accident."

Do you believe that there is a difference in the eyes of God?

H
hmmhmm Nov 25, 2008


BenK wrote:
hmmhmm said:

"Yes there is unconcius sin to, but known sin is never an accident."

Do you believe that there is a difference in the eyes of God?


Yes i do believe that

If lets say you commit adultery and murder someone, we know that is sin, but if you happend to take one minute to long luchbreak at work and you did not work when you was paid to. Unless you planed it that was theft and you stole from your company that you work for, such sin if accidental i think is not as severe as lets say you plan to do something you know God hates you doing.

B
bible1985 Nov 25, 2008

i think god hates both sins, but i think their is a bigger sin than others most definitely. For even the smaller sins the holy spirit will speak to you and tell you to stop even with those.

W
White_Stone Nov 26, 2008

http://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/1924_mauro_which-version.html

WHICH VERSION? AUTHORIZED OR REVISED?
(1924)

By Philip Mauro

The present inquiry is in regard to the many differences, some of them quite serious, between the "Authorized," or King James Version, first published in 1611, and the "Revised" Version of 1881. The total number of the departures of the latter from the former is over thirty-six thousand.

sermonindex Nov 26, 2008

Do you think that denying Christ when he is living in you is a lot worse than what Peter wept over?

I am thinking that this is related to the context of Hebrew 6:4-6. Can you give enlightenment on these very controversial verses.


Sorry I took so long to respond, passerby.

I've been thinking about this a lot. I don't want to comment too much right now because I'm still learning. I've been real afraid of these types of verses in the past and I don't want to say anything that might give someone a wrong idea. I'd be glad to hear anyone else's thoughts on it though. It's not like we can't talk about it.

Ben

P
passerby Nov 27, 2008

I agree with you. It is good to slow down in cases like this to avoid putting any stumbling block to others as well us to ourselves.

Reading Hebrews 6:4-6 can draw us to ask questions regarding the security of our salvation.

But let us not discuss formally at the moment about 'OSAS' or 'perseverance of the saints' as this will require an extensive cross-reference. Let us place our focus in this very 'episle to the hebrews'; its intended recipients, on what was the author's main theme/s, what were his pressing concerns at that time about this particular group of people.

This epistle was addressed to jewish christians, and one of the main purposes of the letter was to give insight to the relationships of the old covenant/testament and the new covenant/testament and within this theme that I am trying to look now at the context of Hebrews 6:4-6.

It is my understanding that it was not really the intention of the author to establish a doctrine about 'believers security' or regarding 'unpardonable actions or sin' with these verses. His concern was a 'crisis of belief' that could result to apostasy from 'the new covenant', to the drifting away from the 'message of grace and faith', to the renunciation of the gospel reverting back to Judaism.

This apostasy is like conspiring with those who crucified the Lord Jesus Christ, accusing Him of great lie, blasphemy, and that like a hardened criminal, He must be crucified and suffer an openly shameful death.

It is impossible to restore this kind of apostasy to our Lord, doing ritual sacrifices of the old testament, "For it is impossible that the blood of bulls and goats should take away sins" (Heb 10:4). There is no hope for a messiah, He had already come..."There remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins"(Heb 10:26).

Well, a very simplistic explanation, I hope it is not a stumbling block to anybody.


P
passerby Nov 27, 2008

Clarification:

It is impossible to restore this kind of apostasy to our Lord, doing ritual sacrifices of the old testament,

What I mean is that repentance is but a futile effort for it is impossible to be restored to God by depending on those old testament rituals again.

B
bible1985 Nov 27, 2008

i agree passerby on your intrpretation of the book of hebrews. Also hebrews ch. 10 verse 26 is pertaining to those jewish christians too.

H
hmmhmm Nov 27, 2008


bible1985 wrote:
i agree passerby on your intrpretation of the book of hebrews. Also hebrews ch. 10 verse 26 is pertaining to those jewish christians too.

do you mean it does not apply to us?

is there a difference between a gentile christian and a jesish christian?

if so, then we can not apply the letter of romans to us neither, since we are not romans, nor galatians or any other letter. since there is no letter to the swedish does that mean i have no scripture that applies to me?

what is written in hebrews is for all christians for all times, yes some aspects of the letter has some cultural aspects that need to be known. but some of the reasonings here are not good.

we should not explain away warnings in scripture with it does not apply to us since we are not jews.

they where born again christians by gods spirit. The letter to the hebrews apply to all in that group, regardless of ethnic group or culture.

we need a greter trembling at the word of God and less reasoning. We need more awe and reverence to what God has spoken. if a verse in hebrews dont 'match' your theology, dont reason away scripture to fit doctrine, better say, i do not know, yet...

God may reveal it some day, but until then we must not alter scripture or diminish it by saying ' it does not apply to me'

we will be judged by every word written in that book, no matter jew or gentile.

please do concider this.

W
White_Stone Nov 27, 2008

AMEN!

Your post hit home, thank you for taking the time to enter it.

We do seem to reason away our awe of God, that is a significant point - the strongest point in your post, to me. The human language and understanding is not capable of total understanding or explaining away the mysteries of God. I believe the practice of falling on your face before God should be reestablished. There do not seem to be many humble Christian's around, pointing at myself here, too. Our worldly knowledge and learning has puffed us up and done it's best to explain away all the glory. (Excuse me, I get a little carried away on this subject)

Praise the Lord!
ws

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