KJV error Hosea 11:12?

Was reading through Hosea tonight and noticed chapter 11:12:

"Ephraim compasseth me about with lies, and the house of Israel with deceit: [u]but Judah yet ruleth with God, and is faithful with the saints.[/u] "

It says Judah Rules with God and if Faithful.

But if we look at other verses in Hosea it shows just the opposite of Judah. Like verses:

12:2
The LORD hath also a controversy with Judah, and will punish Jacob according to his ways; according to his doings will he recompense him.

6:4
O Ephraim, what shall I do unto thee? O Judah, what shall I do unto thee? for your goodness is as a morning cloud, and as the early dew it goeth away.

Judah's goodness has faded away and God has a controversy with them. Doesn't sound like they rule with God and are faithful.

I looked up the same verse in NASB and it says:

Hosea 11:12:
Ephraim surrounds Me with lies
\t And the house of Israel with deceit;
\t Judah is also [u]unruly against God[/u],
\t Even [u]against[/u] the Holy One who is faithful.

Seems to be more accurate with God's testimony of Judah. Which version do you think has this verse translated correctly?

As always, I find Matthew Henry gets to the point when I become confused.

Yea.. I check out Matthew Henry before I posted. I have his and couple other commentaries on e-sword. While Judah was certainly more Godly than Israel - the kjv translation of Hosea 11:12 does not seem to agree with God's testimony of them in the rest of Hosea (reading in context)

Hos 5:5 And the pride of Israel doth testify to his face: therefore shall Israel and Ephraim fall in their iniquity; [u]Judah also shall fall with them[/u]

Hos 5:10 [u]The princes of Judah were like them that remove the bound: therefore I will pour out my wrath upon them like water.[/u]

Hos 5:12 Therefore will I be unto Ephraim as a moth, and to [u]the house of Judah as rottenness.[/u]

How can Judah rule with God, ask per kjv, and be faithful with the saints (or the Holy One).. and yet God is going to pour out His wrath on them like water?

Also, I don't see anywhere in the text where God is talking about a faithful remnant. I know the Lord's always had His remnant...but in context it's not there.

To sscott:

The King James is the correct rendering of God's Spirit breathed Word.

11. They shall tremble as a bird out of Egypt, and as a dove out of the land of Assyria: and I will place them in their houses, saith the Lord.
12. Ephraim compasseth me about with lies, and the house of Israel with deceit: but Judah yet ruleth with God, and is faithful with the saints.
Hosea 11:11-12

What God is saying to His people "I'm going to bring you back again," "You'll be carried into captivity because of your own foolishness, but I won't wipe you out. You're My prize and I'll bring you back again."

[b]Where would Messiah come from? Out of Judah![/b]
"Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise.... Judah is a lion's whelp ..The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto Him shall the gathering of the peoples be."

8. Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall bow down before thee. 9. Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up? 10. The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be. (Genesis 49:8-10)

Also, we can see God's intent about Judea in Hosea 11:7-9
7. And my people are bent to backsliding from me: though they called them to the most high, none at all would exalt him. [b]8. How shall I give thee up, Ephraim? how shall I deliver thee, Israel? how shall I make thee as Admah? how shall I set thee as Zeboim? mine heart is turned within me, my repentings are kindled together.
9. I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city.[/b]

[b]Admah and Zeboim were two cities destroyed when God judged Sodom and Gomorrah. If you or I were God, we would say "My people continually backslide from Me and rebel against Me. That does it, I'm through." However, I am not God. And praise be to His name, He's God and not a man. Therefore, He would not enter the city to destroy it. This however presents a divine dilemma--for if God is the Holy One, how could He love such sinful people? By the Blood of Jesus Christ. All believers are forgiven, since before the foundation of the World, because Jesus went to the cross to bear all the sin of mankind.[/b] [b][color=990000]All that each man and woman has to do is to believe in Him, Jesus Christ, Messiah, as their Lord and Savior and the Work that He did at Calvary. All believers are forgiven and have access to the Throne of Grace![/color][/b]

Sincerely,

Walter
:-)

sscott wrote:
Was reading through Hosea tonight and noticed chapter 11:12:

"Ephraim compasseth me about with lies, and the house of Israel with deceit: [u]but Judah yet ruleth with God, and is faithful with the saints.[/u] "

It says Judah Rules with God and if Faithful.

But if we look at other verses in Hosea it shows just the opposite of Judah. Like verses:

12:2
The LORD hath also a controversy with Judah, and will punish Jacob according to his ways; according to his doings will he recompense him.

6:4
O Ephraim, what shall I do unto thee? O Judah, what shall I do unto thee? for your goodness is as a morning cloud, and as the early dew it goeth away.

Judah's goodness has faded away and God has a controversy with them. Doesn't sound like they rule with God and are faithful.

I looked up the same verse in NASB and it says:

Hosea 11:12:
Ephraim surrounds Me with lies
\t And the house of Israel with deceit;
\t Judah is also [u]unruly against God[/u],
\t Even [u]against[/u] the Holy One who is faithful.

Seems to be more accurate with God's testimony of Judah. Which version do you think has this verse translated correctly?

Hello, Troy:

The problem today, in these last days, is that we do not understand the two streams of Bible Text that are available to us. One stream comes directly from the believing Church, from the beginning. This text is referred to as the “Received Text”- i.e. received and protected by the believing Church. It is also called the Textus Receptus. Bibles that follow this thread could be The Bishops Bible and the King James Bible.

The other Bible text available to us today has been passed down from the Gnostics in Alexandria, Egypt. It is referred to as the Alexandrian Text. The Catholic Bible relies on the Alexandrian Text. Also, all of the newer versions of the Bible that have been published since 1881 ALSO rely on the Alexandrian text.

1.[b]God has promised He would PRESERVE continuously, forever, every one of His pure precious Words[/b]: Psalms12:6-7. Psalms 119:160. Isaiah 40:8. I Peter 1:23-25. Matthew 4:4. Matthew 24:35. I Kings 8:56.

2.[b]ALL Scripture is inspired[/b]: II Timothy 3:16-17. II Peter 1:21

3.[b]God has a very high regard for His Word:[/b] Psalms 119:105,130. Psalms 138:2. Ephesians 6:18. Hebrews 4:12

4.[b] Every one of His words are precious and pure:[/b] Proverbs 30:5-6. Deuteronomy 8:3. Matthew 5:18. Psalms12:6-7. Psalms 18:30. Psalms 19:8. Psalms 119:140

5.[b] God has strong warnings for altering His Words:[/b] Revelation 22:18-19. Deut. 12:32. Deut. 4:2. Proverbs 30:5-6. Psalms 50:16-17

[b][color=990000]So, we all have a choice. We can believe God, and pick up His preserved Word, The King James, and STUDY our Bible- when reading a verse we focus on the following: WHO, WHAT, WHEN, WHERE, WHY and HOW. What does the passage say?. Of Whom is the passage speaking? To Whom is the passage directed? What specific words does the writer use? At what time was the passage written? From where was the passage written? What does the passage mean? For what purpose was the passage written? In what situation was the passage written? How does the passage fit into what goes before it and what follows it? What does the passage mean to me?

We are told in 2 Timothy 2:15 to “15. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”

Further, as we go deeper into God's Word, we can ask ourselves the following things from each verse we study, each verse we internalize:
1. Is there a promise to claim?
2. A sin to avoid?
3. Warning to heed?
4. A command to obey?
5. A good example to follow?
6. Bad example to shun?
7. New thought about God the Father?
8. New thought about God the Son?
9. New thought about God the Holy Spirit?
10. Fresh insight into the person of Satan?
11. Fresh insight into Satan’s cruel goals?
12. Fresh insight into Satan’s subtle devises?[/color][/b]

[b]Or we can pick up a newer version (NIV, NKJV, Living Bible, Revised Standard Bible, American Standard Bible, Etc, Etc. Etc.) and then put on our “Textual Critic" hats, and study to try and find out what is WRONG with what we are reading. The problem is, if we have a newer version, that is where the error is found.

The choice is each of ours to make.[/b]

Sincerely,

Walter

TroyorTakoda wrote:
Well I don't know about the Old Testament, but I just started reading How to Read the Bible for All Its Worth, a book used as a curriculum text and recommended by Moody Bible Institute and by Zondervan publishers. It has this to say about the KJV New Testament:

The only Greek text available to the 1611 KJV translators was based on late manuscripts which had accumulated the mistakes of over a thousand years of copying. These many mistakes make a big difference in the meaning of many specific passages of scripture.

The NKJV revisers distorted the translation even further by ridding it of its "archaic" way of speaking. This is why for serious study you should use almost any modern translation except the KJV or the NKJV.

To: Sscott:

[b]I believe that if each of us had a complete understanding of the Everlasting Blood Covenant Relationship that God has with Israel, then it would not matter which Bible we picked up when we studied Hosea 11:12[/b]

From: David Hocking, Hope for Today- Israel 60 years of miracles. The Messiah of Israel is the only hope of Israel and the World! (August, 2008)

[b]Israel is God’s Creation![/b]
Isaish 43:1
"1.But now thus saith the Lord that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine."
Isaiah 43:7
"7.Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him."

[b]Israel is God’s Choice![/b]
Deuteronomy 7:6-9
"6.For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
7.The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:8. But because the Lord loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the Lord brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.9. Know therefore that the Lord thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;"

[b]Israel is God’s Calling![/b]
Isaiah 45:3
"………that thou mayest know that I, the Lord, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel."
Isaiah 48:12
"12.Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last."

[b]Israel is God’s Confirmation![/b]
Isaiah 44:26
"26.That confirmeth the word of his servant, and performeth the counsel of his messengers; that saith to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be inhabited; and to the cities of Judah, Ye shall be built, and I will raise up the decayed places thereof:"
Psalm 105:10
"10.And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant:"

[b]Israel is God’s Covenant![/b]
Genesis 15:18
"18.In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram"

Genesis 17:7-8
"7.And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
8. And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."

Psalm 105-8-10
"8. He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.
9. Which covenant he made with Abraham, and his oath unto Isaac;
10. And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant:"

[b]Israel is God’s Comfort![/b]
Isaiah 40:1
"1.Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God."
Isaiah 49:13
"13. for the Lord hath comforted his people, and will have mercy upon his afflicted."

[b]Israel is God’s Commitment----
A Commitment based upon a PLAN- He has to save them![/b]
Isaiah 43:25
"25.I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins."
Isaiah 44:22
"22.I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee."
Isaiah 62:11
"11.Behold, the Lord hath proclaimed unto the end of the world, Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy salvation cometh; behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him."

[b]A Commitment based upon the PROTECTION He would give them![/b]
Isaiah 43:2
"2.When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee."

[b]A Commitment based on the PURPOSE He had to be glorified![/b]
Isaiah 43:7
"7.Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him."
Isaiah 60:21
"21.Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified."
Isaiah 61:3
"3.To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified."

[b]A Commitment based on the PROMISES of His Word![/b]

Isaiah 40:5
"4.And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it."
Isaiah 46:11
"12. Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it."
Isaiah 55:11
"11.So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it."

[b]A Promise of Return[/b]
Isaiah 43:5-6
5. Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;
6. I will say to the north, give up; and to the south, keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth;

Ezekiel 36:24
"23 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land."

[b]A Promise of Resurrection![/b]
Ezekiel 37:11-14
"11. Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
12.Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13. And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up out of your graves,
14.And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord."

Sincerely,

Walter

sscott wrote:
Was reading through Hosea tonight and noticed chapter 11:12:

"Ephraim compasseth me about with lies, and the house of Israel with deceit: [u]but Judah yet ruleth with God, and is faithful with the saints.[/u] "

It says Judah Rules with God and if Faithful.

But if we look at other verses in Hosea it shows just the opposite of Judah. Like verses:

12:2
The LORD hath also a controversy with Judah, and will punish Jacob according to his ways; according to his doings will he recompense him.

6:4
O Ephraim, what shall I do unto thee? O Judah, what shall I do unto thee? for your goodness is as a morning cloud, and as the early dew it goeth away.

Judah's goodness has faded away and God has a controversy with them. Doesn't sound like they rule with God and are faithful.

I looked up the same verse in NASB and it says:

Hosea 11:12:
Ephraim surrounds Me with lies
\t And the house of Israel with deceit;
\t Judah is also [u]unruly against God[/u],
\t Even [u]against[/u] the Holy One who is faithful.

Seems to be more accurate with God's testimony of Judah. Which version do you think has this verse translated correctly?