Who on Sermon Index speaks in Tounges

Out of interest who on Sermon Index speaks in tounges?????????????

murrcolr wrote:
Out of interest who on Sermon Index speaks in tongues?

but the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, gentleness, and self–control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts. If we live by the Spirit, let’s also walk by the Spirit.
Galatians 5.22-25

The church definitely needs the power to heal but I say it needs the power to LOVE abundantly more than it needs to work miracles!

Colin, what earthly or eternal good are the gifts of the Spirit if God's people can't be known by the fruit of the Spirit? Sadly, the church is more known by the fruits of the flesh instead of the Fruit of the Spirit. [edit: this is especially true among so-called tongue talkers and if you are honest, you know it to be true as well. If speaking in tongues was our end-of-all-problems, we should be clean as a whistle but it's not true.]

I ask this because Jesus said the ONE thing, the one thing that we would know false prophets and teachers by is their fruit, He did not mention their gifts. [He did mention gifts in Matthew 7.22-23]

Ephesians 5.8 For you were once darkness, but are now light in the Lord. Walk as children of light, 9) for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth, 10) proving what is well pleasing to the Lord.

This shows that it's the Fruit of the Spirit in us that proves what is well pleasing to the Lord! Amen? And not gifts.

To me the question should be, who here has the fruit of love, joy, peace, kindness, goodness, faith, gentleness and self-control? What evidence do you have?

;-) :-) ;-)

God bless, Colin!!

Thanks for your answer.

Do I love God with all my heart, do I love people like I love myself. Do I have any bitterness, am I slow to anger like God is slow to anger. Do I have any pride, do I forget about an evil done or do I hold a grudge.

The fruits of the spirit or pretending to have the fruits of the spirit, trying to be Godly in my own strengh or truly being Godly. Having a form of Godliness but deny God's power.

Can God do more for this sinful man than just justify me or do I have to wait until death until I am free from this sinful nature. Can death be my deliverer?

Who then can set me free from this inclination to sin?

These are some of the questions I have in my head. But for the time being I would like to know about anyone on here who talks in tounges or as you prefer prays in tounges.

Hi everyone,

I think that it should be appearant to us that the Church needs exaclty what God is or is willing to give to it, in exactly the same measure as He would give it.

The same Spirit that produces the fruit of holiness also divides to every man as He will, gifts, for the eddification of the body and for the furtherance of the Gospel.

Our denunciations of others who lack gifts as being less spiritual are obnoxious and our claims to superior piety over those that lack fruits in as abundant measure as ourselves are obnoxious.

Holy living is as much needed among those that count it sport to riot in the day as supernatural power and demonstration is needed among those held captive under supernatural powers of darkness.

The Apostle Paul considered it as much right to remind the Thessalonians of their(the Apostles) holy and unblamable example among them as he did to declare to the Romans how he had fully preached the Gospel through mighty signs and wonders by the power of the Spirit of God.

Let us therefore not cover over with piety any secret or hidden disdain for anything that God has given and let us not hide a lack of holiness with proud or boastful demonstrations of power that we seek.

But let us seek to have compassion on the multitudes in all the same ways the Master did. In healing, and in teaching, in power, and in words, and let us be fully convinced [b]that if it is of God, it is all of love[/b].

I think the best way to know if someone exercises the true, genuine gift of glossolalia is if they don't like to talk about it, or preach messages about it, or defend it, or insinuate a debate on it. Paul was an exception (none of the other apostles mentioned how they spoke tongues), and this was because Paul's was a didactic discourse to an erring church. Just the same, those with the genuine gifts of healing - they just heal - and they don't preach about it. Those with the true gift of prophesy cringe when others refer to them as "prophets" because, secretly, inwardly, they know their detestable worth.

Those who are baptized in the Holy Spirit (with or without the evidence of tongues) may give a testimony - but they don't make it a preaching fetish, defend it constantly, substantiate it, deliberate it. Those who work true miracles of God, work miracles by the Spirit without a trumpet or video camera. Those who evangelize masses in the spirit of charity and authority of God make sure the left doesn't know what the right does, and you never hear of their amazing success unless an eye-witness writes about it.

This post may have gotten off the subject, but somehow I feld led to share it. It is linked in an odd way to what is being asked in this thread.

Brother Paul

Well put, Brother Paul...

When I first met the Lord, I used to watch Benny Hinn on occasion. I always had a bit of hesitation about his rantings about divine healing. Of course, I do believe that God heals...and can do so through men. Yet I used to wonder why men supposedly gifted with "the gift of healing" did not visit hospitals. Why don't all of those who boast about "raising the dead" go to where the dead are?

The Lord has done many, many amazing things in my life. In addition, I have seen some incredible things -- things that I don't feel the need to write about. What is the outcome of such descriptions? Is it to increase the faith of others in order to bring others closer to the Lord? Does it cause men to stop "testing everything" (I Thess. 5:21) and accept the claims of others "hook, line and sinker?" Or does it simply set those who boast in such things upon a pedestal of great "spirituality?" It seems to me that the outcome is almost always the latter.

As to the question about tongues: I speak with tongues. Yet my experience is so different from what I usually hear preached in Churches. I shiver when I hear pastors exhort their congregation to "pray aloud in tongues" -- as if it were something that could be controlled. Usually, you hear a bunch of people repeating the same ol' "shundai shundai shundai" phrases over and over again. My experience is very different, almost entirely personal, and deeply impacting. Sometimes, I am simply reading a passage of Scripture, praying for a person, hearing a story about someone who is lost or hurting, worshipping, or just reflecting on the things of God (and even when I was asleep)...when all of a sudden I become overwhelmed with tears and a language that I do not know. I am extremely logical and realize that this is not of myself (or out of a desire to speak in tongues). It is also not something that I can turn on and off like a light switch. I can repeat the words that I have heard myself say before...but it is not a new "bilingual" state where I speak a language whenever I want without ever knowing what I say.

I think that there are many, many people who claim to be "baptized in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues" who are not. I don't know what would cause someone to think that they are...or to claim that they are. I have asked some people who claimed to be...and then were worried about "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" based upon the notion that they were lying about it. I asked them why they "faked" it, and they usually have told me that they thought that they "might" have been...but were simply repeating the expressions of others when in the Church (so no one would question their spirituality). I guess this might be the same reason that so many people get "slain in the Spirit" each Sunday WITHOUT having truly been "knocked down" by God.

Anyway, there are far more pressing needs than a discussion of WHO speaks in tongues. I think that it is undeniable that tongues existed in the Scriptures. I also think that it is a stretch for some to claim that it "ceased" at any given time in history (especially since that is a slanted interpretation of Scriptures that appear to be taken out of context, namely I Corinthians 13). If someone truly wants to be baptized in the Holy Spirit, I suggest that they do NOT place the emphasis on tongues (or any of the gifts). Rather, I would place my emphasis on simply wanting to know Christ more...and becoming a more effective witness of His goodness to a lost and dying world.

PaulWest wrote:

Those with the true gift of prophesy cringe when others refer to them as "prophets" because, secretly, inwardly, they know their detestable worth.

Is this my destiny to feel useless and unworthy all my life. There has to be more than this in my Christian walk there must be I don't want to be a whitewashed tomb clean on the outside and stinking filthy on the inside. Will only death set me free from this body of sinfullness can death be my deliverer. Will God sanctifify me fully entirely or will I be a unclean man all my days.

Is it wrong to ask such a question who speaks with tounges what is wrong with it, does it break the guidelines of posting. Is it true that because I ask about talking in tounges that means that when I do it's false? Does it mean that as I have started a debate about tounges that the tounges I use are false.

I talk in tounges this happened before I even went to church. As I lay there in my bed totally fed up with they way my life was going I ask God to change me. A wind came in the room and blew into my stomach, after this I started talking in tounges.

I asked this question on this post because I want to find out the general type of people that are on this website. As I find that those who attack this gift are religious (have a form of godliness but deny the power) and would want to stop any talk of such things. Have you ever heard anyone saying this "tounges are of the devil"

Thats terrible and very grieving indeed.

Maybe I should start a thread where is Jesus in your life and see what is the response.

I don't know what would cause someone to think that they are...

Allow me, brother. This might upset a few readers, though it is not my perogative to upset anyone. I used to be deeply entrenched in the charismatic movement. I was credentialed at one time with AG and preached at their rallies and at high-energy Pentecostal youth revivals.

Most everything in these circles is generated by excitement, energy, soul-power. Music plays a tremendous role. People are walked-through the process for wanting "to receive the Holy Spirit", by first raising their hands (usually after a time of having heads bowed down and eyes closed). A minister who ostensibly has the gift of "transferring the anointing of the Holy Ghost" to others will coach you what to do, what to think about, and how to mouth the syllables. If it's in a formal setting - like the Holy Spirit Baptism workshop held anually at Southwestern Assemblies of God University - you all come up and form a line and the minister goes from person to person laying hands on your head and encouraging you to speak whatever gibberish comes to mind.

Sometimes they'll have a worship singer leading with a keyboard or something. Ideally, though, you want to have a drum beat - because a repetitious drumbeat is a very powerful tool for stirring the soul. The people are told to just "let go" and focus on Jesus, worship Jesus, imagine He is there on stage and He has a free gift for you, that you don't have to earn it - it's His delight to baptize you and He's ready right now!

The mantra music is increasing in volume and when the minsiter reaches you, He puts a hand on your head and one on your shoulder while a catcher/helper usually gets behind you. He starts going off in a mix of tongues and English (basically the soulish equivalent of Spanglish), and you're encouraged to lift your hands and cry out to God for the baptism. If it's taking too long and you haven't started speaking in tongues yet, the minister will move on after encouraging you to "keep seeking" the blessing.

The atmosphere is incredibly hot by now, and it's tense and loud. The worship leader, by this time, is usually speaking in tongues himself and has gone off into "the spirit" and it's a very infectious thing. Many people slip into the groove at this point, raise their hands, and timidly begin to release and try to speak anything that comes to mind. The slightest peep of an unintelligent syllable is avidly welcome, and the person is enthusiatically coached to just repeat it, over and over and over. The dignity guard finally comes down, the euphoric beat of music and corporate soulishness melts the final barrier away, and the syllables finally flow forth, strung together with more confidence. Pretty soon the person is rambling and shouting "tongues" with a sense of surrender and ease. As you make the syllables, you imagine them going up as a heavenly language to God that God is able to decipher them.

According to Pentecostal tradition, if this has happened, the person is offically "baptized in the Holy Spirit" and not until then. It's total nonsense and deception. In some cases, the baptisms that take place at these conventions may be genuine, but I propose that the vast majority of them are clever counterfeits of soul and a conjuction of emotion and an intense pressure of excitement and expectation to manifest the desired result.

After the service, those who "spoke in tongues" are encouraged to practice their new gift daily as a prayer language. I say it often: it is like the "sinner's prayer", only mach II. Brethren, this is why we have so many in the church ostensibly baptized in the Holy Ghost and yet completely and utterly powerless. It was Ravenhill's lament, and this is how many of them happen. Just like in salvation, the confession was wrought by forumlaic means, by soul and not Spirit. Soulwork is merely lots of fancy lights and sounds; fireworks and bangs and flashes and explosions...but after it's over, all that's left is a vanishing curtain of translucent smoke.

But anything worught in the spirit by the Spirit remains and grows, transforms, brings fruit and is backed by God's authority that engenders intense self-deprecation, holiness, humility, long-suffering and charity.

There has to be more than this in my Christian walk there must be I don't want to be a whitewashed tomb clean on the outside and stinking filthy on the inside.

Many of the arguments or debates on these type of threads upset me. It seems that the impersonal setting encourages people to argue. At any rate I believe that we all have a flesh that will not be redeemed and pure until death. However, I believe God can and does purify hearts according to James 4:8-10 and other verses. Ravenhill also believed this and has a number of sermons about acquiring a pure heart. I understand Paul West's concern over certain Charismatic/Pentecostal customs, and I agree that the presence of spiritual gifts will speak for itself. People shouldn't go around spouting about their gift of prophecy etc. I would say this not necessarily because we all have impure hearts, but rather because we all have sinned and fallen short and the gifts and callings of God do not make us more or less holy. A pastor is not necessarily any holier than anyone else just because of their calling. Anyway, my hope is to kind of bridge the debate so to speak. I understand where both sides are coming from, but I believe that inside I can be holy and pure despite fleshly desires which will always be impure until the redemption of this body (1 Corinthians 15).

I speak in tongues. I was raised charismatic, but I fell away. When I was born again I didn't want to rely on my parent's faith so I tested everything. I didn't try to speak in tongues. I told God that if it was real than I really wanted it. One day I was walking and praying to God under my breath. The presence of God was thick and I realized I was speaking in tongues. I stopped out of surprise (I was in public) but God told me that he gave me the gift and it bubbled out of me under my breath along with a holy joy. I agree with the previous post that I don't turn the gift on and off like a faucet but that God stirs it up in me, but I also stir it up on occasion.

Many of the arguments or debates on these type of threads upset me. It seems that the impersonal setting encourages people to argue. At any rate I believe that we all have a flesh that will not be redeemed and pure until death. However, I believe God can and does purify hearts according to James 4:8-10 and other verses. Ravenhill also believed this and has a number of sermons about acquiring a pure heart. I understand Paul West's concern over certain Charismatic/Pentecostal customs, and I agree that the presence of spiritual gifts will speak for itself. People shouldn't go around spouting about their gift of prophecy etc. I would say this not necessarily because we all have impure hearts, but rather because we all have sinned and fallen short and the gifts and callings of God do not make us more or less holy. A pastor is not necessarily any holier than anyone else just because of their calling. Anyway, my hope is to kind of bridge the debate so to speak. I understand where both sides are coming from, but I believe that inside I can be holy and pure despite fleshly desires which will always be impure until the redemption of this body (1 Corinthians 15).

I speak in tongues. I was raised charismatic, but I fell away. When I was born again I didn't want to rely on my parent's faith so I tested everything. I didn't try to speak in tongues. I told God that if it was real than I really wanted it. One day I was walking and praying to God under my breath. The presence of God was thick and I realized I was speaking in tongues. I stopped out of surprise (I was in public) but God told me that he gave me the gift and it bubbled out of me under my breath along with a holy joy. I agree with the previous post that I don't turn the gift on and off like a faucet but that God stirs it up in me, but I also stir it up on occasion.

erm, sorry I dont know how but it seems I posted twice...

1Cor 14:2 - for anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to GOD. V4 - he who speaks in a tongue edifies himself...

If this is true it appears the gift of toungues builds us up and brings closer communion with GOD. I want this gift. I have seen so much phonyness and abuse of tongues that I have been tempted to become a hard cessationist but I won't let that experience cause me to throw the baby out with the bath water. Some of the dearest and most Biblically sound Saints I know have this gift. I don't think it is to be a public thing(without an interpreter) but rather a private prayer language.

I don't believe GOD gives this gift to all believers (Paul asks, "do all speak in tongues?") But I would love to have it so long as it wouldn't puff me up with pride or cause me to look down on brothers and sisters in CHRIST who don't have it.

murrcolr wrote:
Thanks for your answer.

Do I love God with all my heart, do I love people like I love myself. Do I have any bitterness, am I slow to anger like God is slow to anger. Do I have any pride, do I forget about an evil done or do I hold a grudge.

The fruits of the spirit or pretending to have the fruits of the spirit, trying to be Godly in my own strengh or truly being Godly. Having a form of Godliness but deny God's power.

Can God do more for this sinful man than just justify me or do I have to wait until death until I am free from this sinful nature. Can death be my deliverer?

Who then can set me free from this inclination to sin?

These are some of the questions I have in my head. But for the time being I would like to know about anyone on here who talks in tounges or as you prefer prays in tounges.

Colin,

I'm sorry. I did not mean to disillusion you; but I misintrepreted your one sentence question... I was wrong to post like I did. Please forgive me.

I sent you a private message as well.

Can God do more for this sinful man than just justify me or do I have to wait until death until I am free from this sinful nature. Can death be my deliverer?

God can do WAY more for us than we can ask or think!! And we do NOT have to wait until death to be free. Read the Word even more and radically believe it and apply it! And pray in the Spirit! Your testimony is awesome!

He loves you.

I was saved in the early 70's by going to some Catholic Charismatic prayer meetings and hearing the gospel preached. I learned about the Baptism of the Holy Spirit through these Spirit filled believers and I began to seek the Lord for this Baptism. I cannot tell you exactly when I was baptized in the Spirit, because early on in my Christian life, all that I wanted to do was to sit in God's presence, pray, and read His Word. One day I was sitting on my front porch, praying and praising God, and I began to praise God in an unknown tongue.

I became involved in Full Gospel Buisnessmen's meetings and was introduced to faith teachings. After about 10 years of being involved with the Word of Faith movement I became very disilushioned. My eyes were being opened more and more to many of the unscriptural teachings within the movement. We left the Word of Faith Church that we were in, and I began to get more immersed into books by Nee, Murray, Tozer, and later Sparks. The reason why I became involved in these forums is because there are many brothers and sisters here that love God and desire to walk a clean and sanctified life, which is also my desire. I knew that the Lord was calling me deeper, and I began to immerse myself in the truths of the cross, which I had never got in the Word of Faith Church that I had attended.

I can see why the devil causes all of this uproar and confusion about tongues, because this gift is precious, as are all of the Lord's gifts.

Tongues, prophesy, laying on of hands, and the casting out of demons have all been abused and misused in many Charismatic Churches and meetings, and the enemy loves this because it brings discredit to that which the Lord is wanting to do in the Church through the gifts. God only gives good gifts, and the gifts of the Spirit are of great benefit to the Church when used in the proper way.

Jesus Christ should always have the pre-eminence in the Church, and when gifts or manifestations are made to be the main emphasis, then that is when the problems begin, and the enemy will certainly come in with his counterfeit.

All of the gifts operate by the love of God, and the gifts are to build up the Body of Christ. Praying in tongues is the one gift that a believer can exercise and build himself up in his most holy faith.

Praying in the Spirit is used by the Holy Spirit in intercessory prayer, because many times we do not know how to pray as we ought to.

There has been much harm done by some Pentecostal groups teaching that you have to be baptized in the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues in order to be saved. I am still looking for that scripture.

The main thing that the Lord is after in our lives is that His own nature is being formed in us, and if I had the choice of having the gifts or the fruit of the Spirit, I would choose the fruit. But praise God that we don't have to pick and choose, when we can have both the fruit and the gifts.

Mike

re "Many of the arguments or debates on these type of threads upset me."

I have to agree with you on this. I steer away from the forums for the lack of edification in it. I tell lots of people about the good things that are available through SermonIndex but usually add to beware of the forums, discernment would be necessary. It does seem to digress into lesser things at times. But there are the times that truth and encouragement are found so I haven't completely given up.
As for the issue of tongues, its easy to agree that it is a gift given by the Holy Spirit as He chooses for the edification of the believer and the body, if there is an interpretation. My experience also includes that there is much flesh involved as well in the body of believers when it comes to this particular gift. It is good to seek the gift, and especially the greater gifts but remember to always seek the Giver and not to get too caught up in seeking the gift. The gift is not necessary for salvation. God uses both those that have the gift as well as those that do not.
There are the two extremes concerning the gift of tongues. Some would suggest that the gift is the evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirt and therefore necessary to salvation even though not all would go so far as to say necessary for salvation. Then others would suggest that the gifts were only necessary for the beginning of the Church and as such are no longer needed or in evidence. Both views I would disagree with. The truth I believe would be somewhere in the middle as it often is when it comes to most of the things which we tend to debate as theological issues. In my best determination Scripture teaches that the gift exists even for today but that it is not for everyione though we are encouraged to seek after the gifts. But our priorities need to be in line; seek God first and not what He can offer us. Do not be dismayed if your brother or sister should speak in tongues and you do not. Pray and ask for the gift but leave it with the Holy Spirit to give as He wills. I know many who share the gift of tongues, some sought the gift and others did not including a dear little old white-haired lady who does not make much ado about it in the church because most in that particular denomination don't ever expect to speak in tongues. I have also known the other extreme where many spoke in tongues and some interpreted but I found sometimes that the message was inconsistent with the teachings of Scripture, more flesh than Holy Spirit.
For the record, I do not speak in tongues. I have asked for the gift according to the Scriptures. I do believe that the Lord has gifted me in other gifts.
Satan would try to distract us in two ways. He would try to make us think that without the gift of tongues we are useless or with the gift that we are better than others, a spiritual pride. Then he would have us to lose our focus, to take our eyes off of Jesus, to seek the experience rather than the Gift Giver. He would also have us to argue amongst ourselves so as to remove all potential for unity. He seems to do preety well with this one, getting us to argue amongst ourselves.
God will lead all into truth whose heart is set upon Him. That truth may or may not include the gift of tongues.

Since I hand-write my prayers, this may explain why I have trouble reading some of what I have written.

Is this my destiny to feel useless and unworthy all my life

John Newton confessed one thing: that he was great sinner and Christ was a great Savior.

He also said this:

[i]"...our holiness does not consist in great attainments--but in spiritual desires, in hungerings, thirstings, and mournings; in humiliation of heart, poverty of spirit, submission, and meekness; in hearty admiring thoughts of Jesus, and dependence upon Him alone for all we need. Indeed these may be said to be great attainments; but they who have most of them are most sensible that they, in and of themselves, are nothing, have nothing, can do nothing--and see daily cause for abhorring themselves and repenting in dust and ashes!"[/i]

- John Newton