Muslim Pilgrimage, you must check this out brethren

Brethren,

I sent you all this link because this is one of the things that is culmenating before our eyes in relation to the religious community.

As soon as I saw this I began to ask God our Father what is this at it's essence.

In my spirit I received this I believe from the spirit,
These muslims are on their pilgrimage, they are fasting and praying and seeking the God of Abraham just as we are, he is their father also in that regard.

We Christians are also suppose to be seeking our God with seal and npo avail but to see His glory erupt and , but this is what is taking place, we are sitting back doing basically nothing in general, but prosperity , endless sinfulness of not seeking, not longing for as the heart does after the waterbrook, but they are getting what they are vieing for.

They want God's presence, and they are getting what they are seeking after

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081207/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_saudi_hajj;_ylt=Aql3eNp__iJfi9ocF_3A1SlvaA8F]Muslim hajj pilgrimage culminates on Mt. Arafat[/url]

Please brethren, i am in no way attempting to be misportrayed or misunderstood,

they are the descendents of Abraham, they have promises also, they are also seekers, people, creatures also, God loves and cares for them also, But...................

Whether we see it as fleshy or not, they are being rewarded with what they seek....

Yes they miss Christ, yes they miss it all, but God, the Ancient of Days, through His divine providential and Soveriegn mercy has times, appointments for the entirety of humanity....

Please do not misunderstand, I am telling you all what fell in my spirit, you can't write just becasue they do not worship or believe the Messianic prophecies, The Ancient One has a plan and a day of appointment.

Observe how they have arisen in number and strenght as a religion, and look at how we Chrisitians has bowed out deceptively and cowardly to them, to this petty Christianity we claim to uphold.

Pilgrimage, many of us would grimace, cry, complain, and probably take a backpack full of sandwhiches with us to the pilgrimage because we are weak these days and SSSSLLLLOOOOWWWWW to believe.

My admission of the thread topic was to simply provoke us to thought....

What do we have that they would want?

What are our vital signs in this day & Age?

May God bless us and help us in these last & evil days.

The Fire

The Fire,

It is not at all unusual for those involved in cults to shame Christians with their devotion to their religion. The devil loves this! He will do anything to facilitate this kind of devotion to their belief system because it seems to fulfill a need in their heart to worship a 'Higher Power'.

ginnyrose

Hi everyone,

"What do we have that they would want?"

Voice of the Martyrs is(or was recently) offering a sample chapter of the book called 'Iran Desperate for God'. The chapter is called 'the Fanatic' and is the testimony of a young woman who was formerly a muslim and the many things she did and endured in her religon before coming to faith in Christ. The testimony also includes stories of what she is experiencing now as she has continued to follow after Christ in faith.

I don't mean to distract from the purpose of this thread but thought the testimony might be encouraging to others.

Chris

The Fire,
I can hear your concern about "christians" who lack the devotion and fervency that muslims, and other religions, display. (Note that I have put the word christians in quotation marks). I can understand that.
But as it was noted very corectly here, they ar not seeking the same God, the hevenly Father of our LORD. They are not seeking the God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob. Remeber, Jesus Christ, the LORD, is the God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob.
As for muslims, they ar seeking their god, whom their (false) prophet Mohamed, called Allah.
Brother, the christians, real, new testament christians seek their LORD day and night, and have nothing to learn from muslim's "haj" pilgrimages etc.
Again I do understand your pain and felt the same way few times myself. But I can't help but think that your post is little bit off, which is possibly caused by strong impression of massive human religious effort, vividly displayed.
May God richly bless you all, saints.

Thank you ChrisJD, and Ginny,

No doubt about that Ginny,

but I still ask, What do we have that anyone would want?

As a people, as a people who have access to the holy Spirit n Power.....

Yes there are many of us who are seeking the power, but they aren't hiding , they aren't ashamed, but in general, We are, I have been all over the world, even the midle east though missions and travel, and we n our "petty" religion as it is described, is not described that way to mock at us in fun, but they (othrs abroad) see no evidence or effectiveness of our knowledge of the Holy as one of my favorite authors Mr Tozer opens up to us.

We have nothing that is worth dying for, that is worth crusading the world for.

You all know what I mean as I text here... This is not bad-mouthing, but the truth is to be justified here...

I pray for one another here and our brethren in places where there light is bright..

With Love all,

Fire

No doubt Humble, but they do not know Meshiach, they only understand from the Old testament's standpoint. He is the God of Abraham to them because they come from Abraham's loins.

That is my point, not that they know God at all, for we can't without Christ himself.....

They also have a zeal for God, but Not according to Knowledge....

One cannot know God without the beloved acceptance and mystery of Jesus Christ being revealed to one's heart...

Jesus is God Incarnate, yes bethren, we understand that, but that isn't at all my point, and forgive me if I have not effectively communicated myself.....

God Bless U all continually as we seek the High N Lofty One. We really have need of Him!

Dear Brother Fire,

Just recently I read of Christian's in Laos who were killed for their belief in Jesus. I know they had something worth dying for. You must mean something other than what you wrote. Just wait a little while, we may soon be given that very same opportunity right here in our land. I feel those days are very near and pray for all the Saint's nightly. I also pray for you all on SI.

white stone

According to Islamic teachings, the hajj is a spiritual journey that cleanses the soul and wins absolution. A Muslim who performs the hajj washes away his sins.
Standing at Mount Arafat, a hill about 12 miles (15 kilometers) east of Mecca also known as the Mountain of Mercy, is considered one of the most spiritual moments of the pilgrimage when Muslims believe God will grant their prayers.
"I've traveled from another part of the globe to kneel down here in white robe and ask for forgiveness. Please help me clean my soul before I head home," said Ahmed Hassan, a pilgrim from Malaysia.

Isn't it obvious; they need a Savior. They need to be saved from their sins and given a pure conscience.

[b]Hebrews 9
14.[/b] how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
[b]15.[/b] For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

GodsFire, do not be mislead by large public gatherings. Should we be jealous? There have been missionaries to America who have described some of the large congregations of "christians" as storehouses storing people for hell. These people have congregated enmasse, not to fulfill the great commission and lovingly obey the commandments of Christ our Lord, but for their own personal self-interests -- that they themselves might receive forgiveness of sins and obtain peace with God through their rituals. They have come in together for themselves but our Lord tells us to go out for others, to preach the gospel and to make disciples of all the nations.
There are indeed many faithful Christian gatherings throughout the nations but I would say the majority of the Christian unity is in secret. It is a few here and a few there and such that we shall likely never hear about it; and why should we?

[b]Matthew 6
1.[/b] "Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.
[b]2. [/b] "So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
[b]3.[/b] "But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,
[b]4. [/b] so that your giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.
[b]5. [/b] "When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
[b]6. [/b] "But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.
[b]7. [/b] "And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words.
[b]8. [/b] "So do not be like them; for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.
[b]9. [/b]"Pray, then, in this way: `Our Father who is in heaven, Hallowed be Your name.
[b]10. [/b]`Your kingdom come. Your will be done, On earth as it is in heaven.
[b]11. [/b] `Give us this day our daily bread.
[b]12. [/b]`And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
[b]13. [/b]`And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.'
[b]14. [/b]"For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
[b]15.[/b] "But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.
[b]16. [/b] "Whenever you fast, do not put on a gloomy face (... or white robes ...) as the hypocrites do, for they neglect their appearance so that they will be noticed by men when they are fasting. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
[b]17. [/b] "But you, when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face
[b]18. [/b] so that your fasting will not be noticed by men, but by your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.

Again brothers,

I am trying to articulate as well as I can, but by no means do I mean anything derogatory to the many many brave souls that have had to either lay their lives down or be slaughtered.

This is a call to the masses here in America, and in places that aren't aroused and made uncomfortable as of yet......

Bog,

I agree, I am not being mislead, I am calling attention to a zeal which is Not according to knowledge, a zeal that they have asked God for, it is dictating the times in which we live.

It just so happens to be the time in history in which we have to deal with the uprising and enlargement of the Islamic community....

That's all brethren, they have a zeal, but Not according to Knowledge, but they are acting and carrying out their fervor. Whether it is incorrect or not, they seek to be heard, seen, and acknowledged by the wordl at large...

I spent 8 months in the U.A.E, and arabs or middle eastern people are sacred with their belief system, in other words, no matter how incorrect or shallow it may be to us, they are extremely sincere...

I understand the promise is unto Isaac, it is unto the lineage of Abraham unto Christ and His followers.

But I ask U, Will God cast everyone out and just pay attention to the Jesus believers?

Think about the question and please understand that I am not supporting Islam or Muslims, nor am I giving an accolade to the Islamic community, but rather please understand...

Hey brethren,

I have read Wesley, Luther, Spurgeon, Revenhill, Tozer, and especially Katz( he tends to reach out in his writings to the many other nations and their dealings) I have some Karl Barth, my point is by mentioning this is to inform you that I am not making an ignorant statment, I have read the writing and dealings of these men, so I understand what it right and what is called for in this day, but it is a riveting statement they are attemptng to make. it has dictated our day.....

Where Christianity has turned into Churchianity, God has allowed others to rise up. We have become a buddhist and Islamic nation due to the count and census of religion in this country because we have not given blood or death for our lively conviction.

God our Father has allowed us to go under like this, but it has been our choice!

But He has allowed Idolatry, demonic worship, and false religion to fill the hearts and minds of the many many citizens of this world....

It definitely works on both ends of the scope....

But I ask U, Will God cast everyone out and just pay attention to the Jesus believers?

In terms of eternal salvation God will cast out everyone but the Jesus believers. In terms of worldly authority and power, please allow me to say this:

While it is true that we understand,
[b]Romans 13
1.[/b] Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.

None-the-less we are given this testimony,
[b]Matthew 4
8.[/b] Again, the devil took Him to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory;
[b]9.[/b] and he said to Him, "All these things I will give You, if You fall down and worship me ([b]Luke 4:6[/b]) for it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish."

Therefore, because Christ did not accept the devil's offer, the serpent still has all these kingdoms and powers to give to whomsoever will bow down and worship him. If the nations of the world are falling into the hands of the ministers of unrighteousness then know it is by the sovereign will of God that it should be this way -- "See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end ... But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs."

God our Father has allowed us to go under like this, but it has been our choice!

But He has allowed Idolatry, demonic worship, and false religion to fill the hearts and minds of the many many citizens of this world....

The strength of Christianity is not a comparison of political power or religious fervor but it is by the grace of God in Christ Jesus. I will admit I am still not quite certain what you are getting at but I hope this has answered your question. If America is turned over into the hands of demonic worshippers then praise God, one less thing for Christians to be distracted by -- reformation will never come through politics but by the effective prayers of righteous saints praying in the Holy Ghost.

great point BoG,

This is what I am seeking, very good dialogue, beautiful my brother, and to the glory of God....

Well,
we are going under n terms of livelihood and opportunity. In that regard, but Jesus does desire us to be free from inward tyranny.

The post is not a secret, you might only see it in the manner in which you see it, but I see it in a very apocalyptic manner, and of huge end time proportions.

Yes, BoG,

Jesus is all that you say He is, and he wants to free us from all that you proclaim, but I am not seeking the promises of God in this thread, but rather the proportions of the current events and how they relate to the Christian body of believers, the effect upon the unalarmed believers.

Because we can work up and talk up a good game in Christ, but the proof is in the whole.

Yes, you may be doing everything that God has called you to do, or you may even be on the eact path with your knowledge and answers, but the whole is not living and thrusting upon the Word of God as we say, so I am only stating that, Globally, we are getting exactly what we have settled for.

Garbage religion!

Sure, you are doing it in faith, but I do want you to know that the Lord has 10,000 others that will not bow......

And weakness we need right now, for we r still too strong. There is a song by Ce Ce Winans called "he's not on his knees yet", and a part of the chorus is that, " he is too strong to be weak", show him mercy, he is not on his knees yet.

Let him break, please make him better, put the pices back together, he's not weak, and he is not on his knees yet!

Not really getting at anything, it is just another current event, food for thought! And yes, judgement , it will be, more n moreuntil we see Jesus in peace........

My writing is a little broken because a I am responding to you from certain points that you made

Love
the Fire

brother fire.

i am afraid i dont know what you are trying to say? we have nothing to die for? please describe... we have everything to die for! we can God to die for! Because we will be resurected and ushered into heaven! i dont understand what you might think we have nothing to die for.

what do we have that they dont? JEsus, he is our messia (sorry for misspellings) he is THE WORD of our God, who was Abrahams and Isacs too!

Dear Brother GF,

Your post is bringing out some very good responses and for that I feel it is a valid question.

Your comments:

Where Christianity has turned into Churchianity . . . . and then, in another post, Garbage religion

Years ago I looked at people who carried a Bible with them everywhere as odd balls - now I see them 'wise as serpents.' I have a Bible in both of our vehicles and two in my purse (never know when I may need to give one away). When I am stuck in a waiting room, I read God's word. I do not close myself off to any conversation around me for per chance God may have placed me next to one who needs my witness.

1 Peter 3:15:. . . be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear. . . .

What you wish to see in Christianity will not be seen until you reach Heaven. Look how Jesus was treated, should we expect better? Of course not. There was meekness and humbleness in His way. We are not to have the support of throngs of believers, Jesus was a solitary man, a man of sorrows.

The Muslims have a worldly religion and the World will love it and embrace it because it does not Preach Jesus.

Christian's power is in their weakness. We are closer to God in our weakness. I hope you can understand what I am trying to say. It is something I know but am having a difficult time expressing. I pray the Lord will move someone to bring more illumination to my thoughts so you will understand.

The gist of it is I do not feel the Christian Church is meant to be a 'world power' but small pockets of praying believers leaning on God for His glory and works. Our strength is in Him not in visual images of marching throngs. They draw comfort from the crowd - we draw strength from His Holy Spirit (unseen by human eyes).

Kind regards,
white stone

I tend to agree with 'Humble'

These muslims are on their pilgrimage, they are fasting and praying and seeking the God of Abraham just as we are, he is their father also in that regard.

God of the Bible: of Abraham Isaac & Jacob

Theirs is the god of Abraham, Ismail, & Muhammad

Not the same...

Dear ravenmolehil,

God of the Bible: of Abraham Isaac & Jacob Theirs is the god of Abraham, Ismail, & Muhammad

That is the clearest I have seen this explained in printed words. Thank you for your post.

Kind regards,
white stone