The Holy Spirit

As I was studying John 16 this morning, I realized the importane of the Spirit. I don't know about your background, but I have grown up in a tradition that places great emphasis on the Father and Son and very little on the Holy Spirit. Perhaps it is an attempt to stay away from what some would consider "liberal theology". I think some people fear the idea of the Holy Spirit.

The words of Christ lept off the page when he talked about the Holy Spirit. He said, "

...if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. 8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: 9concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; 10 concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; 11 concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

I have been contemplating what it means, not about God, but about man that we need the Spirit in order to understand sin, righteousness and judgement. Here, God incarnate, is standing before man proclaiming He is the Messiah and man's heart is as cold as stone. It is the Spirit that pentrates the hearts of men.

I got to thinking about this idea. When it comes to the topic of salvation and regeneration, I asked myself if it was man or the Spirit that enabled it to happen. Do I, as a man, will for it to happen. I know Calvinists would respond to this by saying that it is the Irresistable Grace that is drawing men to God, but I wonder if the Spirit is able to work in the hearts of unrepentant men.

If we can not stand in the presence of God because of our sin, I would conclude that the Spirit can not enter our hearts if we are sinful. Thanks to Watchman Nee, I have realized that the Spirit is always dwelling in us; we have no need to ask God to give us His spirit as believers because we already share in His resurrection and are a new creation. But what about before we repent?

Essentially, my thinking comes down to this: Is it man who wills repentence or is it God? If it is God, how can He work in our hearts when we are a sinful creation?

I am curious for other thoughts and especially scripture concerning the issues I have raised.

Hi as soon as I read your post this scripture sprang to mind Php 2:13 ForG1063 it isG2076 GodG2316 which workethG1754 inG1722 youG5213 bothG2532 to willG2309 andG2532 to doG1754 of hisG5228 good pleasure.G2107
I have included strongs numbers in case you want to study the greek.
The way i see it is this, Man is utterly lost and without hope apart from God. It is God Who draws us, and gives us salvation as a free gift, He keeps and sustains us in all things. Man is even in his saved state utterly dependent on Him, for without Him we can do nothing. God requires of us that we die to self completely and live in Christ for and to Him, bringing Glory to His Name.
Without The Holy Spirit leading, encouraging and enabling us we cannot even desire this without tainting it with pride. Even then we may still fall prey missunderstanding Him, but without Him there is no hope at all.
Yours in Christ Owen

Hello fuehrerbe21,

Thanks to Watchman Nee, I have realized that the Spirit is always dwelling in us; we have no need to ask God to give us His spirit as believers because we already share in His resurrection and are a new creation. But what about before we repent?

I normally hold Watchman Nee in high regard. There is unfortunately a lot of confusion about the Holy Spirit. I noticed that of the few who are saved among church folk even fewer are truly filled with the Spirit. Conversion is a work of the Holy Spirit, but it is just not true that you are automatically filled with the Spirit at the time of conversion. It is a marked 2nd experience and when you are filled with the Spirit you will know it. Most who argue against this are probably not filled with the Spirit.

Doctrine is important and the Holy Spirit will never negate the Word. You must be filled with the Spirit. Ask, Seek, Knock, Beg, Cry to be filled. Read the beautitudes in Mat 5, for such is the Holy Spirit given. If you have it all together, you do not need the Holy Spirit but you are reduced to only function in the realm of common sense, morals and factual knowlegde of God. You can still be on fire as Appollus was in Corinth, but you are missing out a great deal.

I can pull up bible verses to back up my points upon request.

narrowpath

a question that i still have after reading the responses thus far is this: if it is only by the work of the Holy Spirit that we are saved, how can the Spirit enter us when we are unrepentant but we can not stand before God unrepentant? or, does the Holy Spirit not enter into us, rather influence the things around us?

I am still interested to see what others have to say, and as always, I do appreciate scripture to support a thought! :-)