In defence of Whispering Word

My brothers and sisters,

First of all I am new to this whole set up and may I say it strikes me as a great tool for sharing what God is doing in the world and also for being able to talk and share with Christians around the globe. But this evening my heart is heavy.

We need reality in our churches today, we need honesty, we need humbleness, we need transparency and we need - most of all - the Lord Jesus Christ by his Holy Spirit to guide and lead us. In the West, if I am honest, I see little of that. I see unreality, I see dishonesty, I see pride, I see closed doors and I see little of God. We have become fat and corrupt and without real revival then nothing is going to change that - however here is the question - If we hold revivalist meetings - whether in Greenock or in Lakeland or wherever and if it becomes an emotional-hyper-triumphalist-fest then why should we expect to se revival? Why would the Holy Spirit even bother turning up if we can seem to get everyone going without Him?

As Christians we are operating out of our own souls far too often, we feel down and so we assume God isn't talking to us, we feel high and suddenly everything is great and blessed - I don't want to live like that - I want to live a live that is REAL, based on the Holy Spirit operating in me and through me and part of that is to be able to answer tough questions so that if something is on here that I disagree with and someone disagrees with me then that's okay - we are not arguing about fundamental doctrine here but questioning and discussing what God is doing around the world and to be honest quoting Bible verses at one another as though we were playing a game of Top Trumps isn't going to change much - it isn't going to stop people going to Hell and t isn't going to make me want to read my Bible for any other reason than look for a "better" quote!.

I thought there was an honesty in Whispering Word's questions that we need to consider before we leap upon it in order to do the voice down - if there was no revival in Greenock (and although I wasn't there I would be expecting to hear noises of revival amongst the church in the UK by now if there had been true revival... after all we are getting desperate for some good news), then should we not consider what was actually going on? Yes it is great that God clearly touched people, it is great that hearts were changed but was that "in spite" of the event or something else? As Christians we ought to be able to take a long hard look at ourselves and gird up our lions - David was a magnificent example as a man who was able to do that and it pours out of the Psalms. Guess what God honored that... we should be able to do the same.

Your thoughts are welcome.

Hello Lonny, you sound just like the other guy, but only with a different skin. Please forgive me if I'm wrong.

Hi Lonny,

Your thoughts are welcome.

I don't think it is wrong to question. I think we need to do that. We need to be good Bereans and we need to be discerning.

I also think that 'whispering' made some observations that I heard from others and actually thought myself privately.

However, what I don't agree with is the cynical nature of the post and replies. I can take a tough question and I can take criticism. What I resent is a flip attitude towards what was good and an excessive emphasis on what was wrong.

When Jesus corrected the churches He always started with what was right and allowed those 'praises' to stand on their own feet. I know thy works, etc. etc. and then followed that with a 'nevertheless'...

Jesus was just as serious about telling the people what was [i]right[/i] than He was about pointing out what was [i]wrong[/i]. I believe this is how the Spirit of Christ manifests Himself.

I can dialogue with any amount of criticism so long as I esteem the questions are in the Spirit of Christ. I am not interested in complaining for any reason.

Whispering said some things were 'weird' or 'strange' or something. He focused mostly on that, from what I recall. What is really 'weird' to me is that while I was in Greenock I felt a strange liberty to not need to 'put on' anything so as to impress my fellow brothers and sisters. I was as stripped down as I get.

I think God wanted to bring deliverance to me and possibly others like me that always feel the need to come off as 'holy' or 'sober minded' or somehow 'spiritual'. understand that I am not saying I was a 'hypocrite' I am saying that at times we can try to come off more highly than we ought. There are many reasons for this, but it is as if God was saying it is OK for me to just be myself and allow His grace to mold me.

I guess I came to Greenock tired of playing the holiness game if I can say that respectfully. I was ready to be utterly real with God and everyone else. I was tired of looking and feeling like I drank a gallon of lemon juice all the time. I needed the joy of the Lord in my life.

I needed to know it was OK to smile, laugh and I didn't need to come off as if God were angry all the time. I needed to see how God's goodness leads men to repentance just like His severity and that the one is not the more Spiritual than the other- it is just about what His grace is calling for at the moment and to that person. I needed to 'feel' God's love and acceptance. That sounds corny I know, but you have no idea the kind of theological bondage I came from.

Hi everyone,

I read through the thread that was locked and I agree with Brothertom and others, [b]something is definitely not right there[/b].

Chris

[i]Edited to correct spelling[/i]

There isn't much more time left for this type critiquing.

I think I would say that it is OK to ask questions so long as our spirit is right. I am not threatened by questions. I am not threatened by criticism so long as it is constructive.

One of the greatest problems today that I see in various circles I'm a part of is an unwillingness to allow God to make changes. I use Photoshop a lot and some will know that you can actually 'lock' a layer so that it is not changeable (alterable). Some people have their whole heart and mind locked down so that God is unable to make changes as He would like.

God desires to bring us into New Covenant Christianity, but we spend so much time defending what we are doing that we can't stop to ask if it is even biblical. Not 'proof text' biblical; but is it God's original design and purpose? Have we really asked God to show us our need to change and then unlocked the 'layers' to give Him real access? He needs to do some editing. Will we have the courage to trust Him to do it?

Hi Lonny...

I can't help but wonder just what those people are looking for in a "revival." Coming from a Pentecostal background, I know a lot of people who equate "revival" with the emotional displays of worship...or tears...or outward manifestations...or excitement...etc... But is this "revival?" I know some who think that "revival" is just meeting together 24 hours a day. Is this "revival?"

What if revival is personal...when a person wakes up to the understanding that God is near to those who earnestly desire Him? What if it is a holy and fearful personal revelation of who God is -- and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him?

I have been in meetings ("camp" meetings, "revival" meetings, etc...) where most people were very, very bored. Yet for me, in those same meetings, I felt like I was standing in Heaven!

On the other hand, I have been in meetings that were supposedly "revival" -- and just seemed like a bunch of theatrical manifestations of spiritual nonsense. I've seen people do everything -- weep, cry, shout, dance, speak in tongues, prophesy, get "slain in the spirit," get "drunk in the spirit," etc... -- only to see those same people continue to live the same carnal lives the very next day (or even continue to publicly live in gross sin). Is this "revival" -- or is this a spiritual "rain dance" in which people think that God will hear them and bless them if they shout/cry/dance enough? If you ask me, many of our Churches seem no different than the prophets of Baal shouting before an altar.

I do believe that God deals with the Church collectively -- but only as a result of the collection of once-fallowed hearts that truly have been suddenly broken before God. In my view, revival is a spiritual condition -- where we "find" God after we've sought Him with all of our hearts (Jeremiah 29:13). And why do we seek? Because we want to know Him for who He is. It isn't about a building...a town...a preacher...a personality...music...a conference...supposed manifestations...etc... It is because we want Him above all things.

Was there a "revival" in Scotland? How could we pretend to know this -- unless we asked each person who was there? Is it possible that someone "woke up" to the things of God (and the truths of His Word) while others continued to slumber? If I remember correctly, there were people who mocked the disciples of Christ on the day of Pentecost after the Holy Spirit fell upon them. So, yes, God deals individually with us. We are to work out our OWN salvation...with fear and trembling.

If we don't get "what" we came for, should we point the finger at others...or at ourselves? The problem could be that we are not seeking correctly (asking amiss)...or we aren't seeking the correct thing to begin with.

:-(

Hi

No, not the same guys - although maybe asking some of the same questions

The question re "revival" is a good one because I believe here a small, individual revivals taking place every day in people's hearts - they could be simply at home, out for a walk, praying in their bedroom or wherever and God speaks to them.. However in the context of "REVIVAL" as in some of the great revivals of the last 2/300 years then I do not believe we have seen anything like that for a long time. In the light of that then I still believe it right to challenge ourselves that when we come together as a large group of Christians seeking after God and all that happens is individual moves in people's hearts and there is no huge outpouring of the Holy Spirit then I think we are right to ask ourselves some tough questions about what that is. In the light of that is there danger that we try to "force" a move, or create a hype (aka Lakeland).

Please don't get me wrong - am not saying that individual moves of God are not important - of course they are and I rely on that as much as the next man to get through my daily walk however if we are meeting looking for REVIVAL and it doesn't appear to happen then we need to ask "why?"

Please don't get me wrong - am not saying that individual moves of God are not important - of course they are and I rely on that as much as the next man to get through my daily walk however if we are meeting looking for REVIVAL and it doesn't appear to happen then we need to ask "why?"

Fair enough question. I think many things can be said here. Certainly Wednesday Night at Greenock it seemed to me we were on the brink of revival as I understand it. God came down in a powerful way. But what was happening did not meet many peoples idea of 'revival' at all. Some viewed it as a [i]distraction[/i] to any real revival and commented the next day that we needed to focus back on revival.

This is why this discussion is really healthy [u]if[/u] we can be mature and loving about it. We can't really move on until we understand what we want God to do in revival or until we are willing to raise our sails and allow Him to carry us along into what He desires for us.

One man's revival is another man's distraction. One man's awesome sermon presentation is another man's weird delivery. One is sensitive to a 'fear of God' type message as being spot on, another is listening for the 'word of His grace' that seeks to accomplish God's purpose in what ever way the Spirit chooses to do it.

Some viewed dancing before the Lord as an offense, others saw it as evidence that the Ark of God was coming into the camp again. There were David's and there were Michal's. Some are content to try to steady the Ark of God also, while others tremble knowing that God's presence brings [i]swift[/i] judgment (i.e. Ananias and Sapphira, etc.).

Some want God to come down and validate what they have been teaching, preaching and [i]writing[/i] about for years. Some may have publications they want to move or web sites they want attended. I heard a little joke the other day that asked how to make God laugh; 'tell him your plans.' I thought that was good.

Beloved, God is not going to bless us with anything that is not part of His divine purposes. I believe our responsibility is to come before the Lord and pray and wait on God for [u]direction[/u] (orders). God will honor and bless [i]His[/i] agenda. He will validate His own personality and has already promised to be in the midst of those that will gather in [u]His[/u] name.

One of the first things that happened in Greenock was in the form of a question; "Does anyone feel like they have a specific word from God for this conference?" There was an admonition given, but not what I would consider a 'word' of direction. We came together wanting a move of God. We prayed with tremendous ferver and God came down at times. What we [u]did not know[/u] was the Lord's bidding. We simply did not know what God wanted to do- therefor we were all left to our own devices and concepts of revival with which to judge what was happening.

This type of thing from Whispering and Lonny has to stop.

Moderators, could you please do something about this!

In the light of that is there danger that we try to "force" a move, or create a hype (aka Lakeland).

I think some want a sanitized move of God. They want God to move in such a way that if the world were looking on they would not be alarmed or criticize. Lakeland had issues of it's own. But rest assured that when God pours out His Spirit some people are liable to get their hair messed up. Some people are liable to get [i]real nervous[/i].

So when we ask for God to send revival, perhaps we ought to get brutally honest and tell God in writing here what will and will not be acceptable? I think we may all be shocked if we started a list how that in the end there is no way God could please everyone. it is very sad to me that if God were to really move some would not recognize Him and others would actually be offended.

So we see how challenging all of this is. Preferences and pet peeves choke a move of God. Unhealthy fear of excesses choke revival. We only accept the 'weird' if the weird things are in step with our views of things and our personal preferences. This is something well worth pondering. Because it was not 'weird' to me for Carter to dance before the Lord, but it was to some.

This type of thing from Whispering and Lonny has to stop. Moderators, could you please do something about this!

Can you bear with us in our folly so that perchance God may open our eyes? I see no harm here. We have had 3 conferences now and I have been to 2 of them. I want God to move. I have traveled thousands of miles and endured bomb threats on the plane to get to a revival meeting. At least suffer me to hear from some loving brethren and sisters that are willing to be transparent and honor God?

Chris's: If you ask me, many of our Churches seem no different than the prophets of Baal shouting before an altar.

I think the key question has to be, "Is what the person doing their way of [i]responding[/i] to God?" Some people have concepts that have been taught or caught and that's what they do to 'respond'. In any event I think Michal's displeasure for David was exemplary of God's view of looking with contempt on folk that respond to God in a way that we may not like. There was a barrenness that came to her.

RobertW wrote:
So when we ask for God to send revival, perhaps we ought to get brutally honest and tell God in writing here what will and will not be acceptable? I think we may all be shocked if we started a list how that in the end there is no way God could please everyone. it is very sad to me that if God were to really move some would not recognize Him and others would actually be offended.

Not knowing the history at all as to what you are talking about re: whisperingwonderer etc all I can say to the above post is amen.

On a more personal note that is why I choose not to hang around here any more.

I was at Greenock and I honestly went with a heart that longed for Revival but I didnt expect it to break out in Greenock.

Am I wrong in saying that Revival's usually come unexpectedly and cannot be planned?

I went with a heart seeking personal revival and got it, as did the majority I talked to. Surely as we all go to our homelands again there will be the (early) beginnings of Revival in these areas. Handfuls meeting for prayer in a way that hasnt happened before - how did the Isle of Lewis revival start afterall.

Others may have wanted the easy option of revival falling after 3 days of meetings - I honestly dont think God will do it that way - He might but i think it'll come from those who have been praying together all night on a weekly bsais for the past 30 years who no-one knows or regards as anything. They are locked away there somewhere and one of these days God is going to honor their prayers.

It's also naive to think that the Conference wasnt worth it just because the Holy Spirit hasnt come a la 1859, 1904 etc. He came to me - thats all I can say - and I'm the better for it and I intend, with my brothers and sister who were there with me, to see this thing through in prayer, confession and daily taking up the cross till revival comes.