Dispensational Truth

Hi to allI recommended Clarence Larkin's book "Dispensation Truths" in a thread asking our opinion on "recemmended reading" It seams that there is some misunderstanding in defining "Dispensation Truths" so I thought I would start a new thread and see if this can be cleared up. Let me first start out by saying that the only way to understand “Dispensational Truth” is to see them from God’s view. This is not some “mystical” view. It is however opposite than man’s carnal or fleshly view. Flesh is flesh and Spirit is Spirit. A sign that someone probably does not see this truth is when they use the word “dispensationalism” or a “dispensationalist”. A flag in the back of your head should come up warning you (most likely) that they are looking at God’s dispensations from man’s view. This view is somewhat like getting the view from the losing side of a war. To even bring a clearer picture out using this example, it would have to be noted that the war was not even a contest and there was a total rout. What kind of true facts can come from this view? When the “ism” or “ist” is used the simple and clear Dispensational Truth is made more complex and the out come will and can only be confusion. So what is “Dispensational Truth”Lets first notice what the difference between a “Age” or “Aion” is to that of a “Dispensation”. A side note, there are 3 ages and 7 dispensations. The difference between a “age” and a “dispensation” is that a age stands for a period between two great changes in the earth’s surface. An example is the time between “creation and the “Flood”. A side note, There were two “dispensations” during this “Age” A “dispensation” stands for a moral or probationary period in the world’s history. An example of a dispensation here would be that the Jewish dispensation was that of the “law” and the dispensation in the present time is of “Grace”. The words that are a key to understand dispensations is “God’s Administration” Stop here and notice the last two statements. This is how simple that this truth is. One concerns God’s dealings with man and how it affects the earth, the other is God’s governmental dealings with man. Simply stated, a dispensation starts with a man and a covenant (notice that there are 8 covenants). It always has and will ends with rebellion and apostasy (In the next “Age” this will be different). The first dispensation was “ Edenic or innocence”. It started at the creation of man (the covenant with Adam) and ended with the fall. The second is the “Antediluvian or conscience”. It started with a new covenant with Adam and ended with the flood. We (today) are in the “Ecclesiastical or Grace” dispensation. (the sixth) Which started with Christ at the cross (the New Covenant) and will end at the beginning of the “tribulation”.Stop right here. Should be the reaction of any student of the Word that has not seen this truth but still know the bible. In this last paragraph we can see what could be a problem. 8 covenants 7 Disp. Each Disp. needs a covenent at the start. It almost look like I'm saying that there is another covenant needed other then Christ's New Covenant. To clear this up we have to remember that the Jews are not under the New Covenant. So this covenant that is seen in the beginning of this last Dispensation is not a new one but somewhat of a renewing of the Jewish old ones that still and will always pertain to them. When we see that they will start to make sacrifices again, this is proof of what I'm trying to say here. Ok, let me state something that might clear something else up. God has two people groups, one group could be called Heavenly and the other called Earthly. The earthly are the people that live on the earth after everything of God's plan plays out. They live on the "New Earth" alive fore ever and ever. Side note, This last (Jewish) Dispensation ends with Satan being let loose again to decieve the world, one more time. Then after this Satan and his people or cast into the lake of fire (for ever and ever) and the earth's has it's "baptism by fire" (remember what starts and finishes a "age"). The next and last age is then ushered in. We are looking at what a dispensation is at this time, however a full study on the seven dispensations is very important in the search to understand God’s truths. Notice that I use dispensational truth and God’s truths. Dispensational truth (singular) is only one way that God shows us His many Truths. To look at all seven as a whole we can see a complete picture of this truth. Again anyone “adds” anything more to this (dispensationalism) they loses most of the “simplistic” meaning of this truth (one of many truths).Now I realize that we can take this down thru it’s many layers and it can get pretty complicated. The “did this start then or did it start here” or “this mean this or that”. To this I say work out our “own” salvation with fear and trembling. Let the H.S. personally guide you in all truths. He will sent you help as needed. It’s a promise. (not from me but from God) A few more points should be added here. God is not reacting to man’s failures going from one dispensation to another. We have to look at this like in a court room or in a legal way. Remember that covenant, justified, atonement, righteousness, and judgment are legal terms. If we understand all seven parts of this “trial” we will at once notice that God is giving man every opportunity, under seven situations or environments to prove that we can’t make a world outside of Him. (remember the tactics Satan used in the Garden) Thus proving man’s “total depravity”. We will also see when we look at this “whole picture” that God is sovereign and in complete control.To sum this up. God is a God of “order” everything that he does has order to it and in it. This understanding is needed to see this truth.I personlly did this work and put it together in a shot time. Please take this into concideration in any responces. I acknowledge the possibility of some parts not being as clear as could be possible, however I would not have submited it if I did not think that it is usefull.I did not just use Larkin's book. Many are represented. One that I should give cridit to is "Earth's Earliest Ages" by John Pember. This is a large subject (because I have taken it past just "Dispensation truths") so if anyone has any questions or need me to expand on something, please ask.Take care, Mark

All Bible believers are dispensationalist to one degree or another. Its all a matter of degree. Bullenger, in the Companion Bible, identified different 'dispensations' in the Book of Acts and saw the church 'under Peter' as a failure and the church 'under Paul' as more enlightened but ultimately a failure too. J N Darby came up with the view that the church we have today is a 'ruined church' and consequently cannot appoint elders. These would be called hyper-dispensationalists but it is still just a matter of degree.I was a dispensationalist of the Scofield order for many years but ultimately abandoned it. The current variations are fascinating; premillennielist, postmillennielist, amillennielist, added to which you can add a sprinkling of pre-tribulationism, mid-tribulationism, or post-tribulationism. You can add another level of seasoning with the partial rapturists.The important thing to note is that all these variant views are held by godly, bible-believing, Christians who love God and His Son's appearing. Most of these views will be represented on the sermonindex.org pages. So whatever conclusions this particular thread comes to, it will be good to sprinkle a final coating of humility on it all. As our beloved brother Paul said, 'we know in part'.

Hi philologosWell said and thanks for adding to this.Mark

An example of a dispensation here would be that the Jewish dispensation was that of the “law” and the dispensation in the present time is of “Grace”Do you mean to say that prior to the death of Christ, that there was no grace?To clear this up we have to remember that the Jews are not under the New Covenant.Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah..."Actually, unlike what is commonly taught, the New Covenant was made with the nation of Israel, not the gentiles. But, like the Old Covenant, gentiles are able to enter into the covenant as well. Under the New Covenant though, there are no limitations for Gentiles.(the New Covenant) and will end at the beginning of the “tribulation”.The New Covenant shall never end. Heb 8:7 teaches that the Old Covenant had its faults and limitations. But never does the bible suggest there are limitations and faults with the New Covenant. In fact, there are none. For the Bible calls the New Covenant "eternal." It is from everlasting to everlasting.

Hi Preaching toYou askedDo you mean to say that prior to the death of Christ, that there was no grace?God's love and His righteousness can never be separated. God's Grace has allways been and will allways be. This statement refers to God's way of legally dealing with His creation. When Christ came the way that God deals with us changed. Conserning the Jews that don't accept this Grace. If they don't keep their "law" my personal belief does not have a very good out come. Just my opinion.You saidthe New Covenant was made with the nation of IsraelThe New Covenant was made to anyone that whats to believe God's Word. Jew or Gentile.You saidThe New Covenant shall never endThat's right. I don't see where I said anything otherwise. Reread the whole post and notice in what context this statement is used. You most likly don't believe in the "rapture" of the Church. If that what you believe it's ok. I believe the Church and the present of the HS (after the rapture) will not be here so the New Covenant will not be taken very seriously on the earth. God's willingness to make His plan accommodate us sinners is humbling to say the least. Now when Christ returns "the Revelation" with His Bride this again changes.You know what I just said shows the grace,love and righteousness of God towards us that make serving Him and all the "cost" that this requires, a pleasure. Thanks for adding to thisMark

This statement refers to God's way of legally dealing with His creation. When Christ came the way that God deals with us changed.Hmmm... God is always dealing legally with His creation. If He wasn't, it would impossible for there to be justice, justification, and mercy. And mercy can only exist where there is wrath (otherwise, mercy would not be mercy). Could you explain more what you mean by this? I'm not sure I quite understand you.You most likly don't believe in the "rapture" of the Church. If that what you believe it's ok. I believe the Church and the present of the HS (after the rapture) will not be here so the New Covenant will not be taken very seriously on the earth.No, I do not believe in the pre-trib rapture (I believe in the second coming). What would make you think the Holy Spirit would be taken out of the world? And that there would be no church? I assume you believe there will be converts during the tribulation period. If so, tell me, how can one have converts without the Holy Spirit, and how can converts not be the church? Also, even if the New Covenant was not taken very seriously by those on the earth (even today it seldom is), that would not somehow mean that God will be ok dealing with people according to whatever covenant they want to setup or restablish. God's willingness to make His plan accommodate us sinners is humbling to say the least.God does not make plans to accommodate us. The blood of the Son of God is not so cheap. In fact, its expense is exactly why the wrath of God is so great. God says you either get in the boat or die. He doesn't say "well, if you won't get in my boat, it's ok if you build your own."

To me I believe Christ existed before creation, actually he created the heavens and the earth. And Christ was also crucified before the foundation of the world so it seems to me that the dispensation of Christ has been from before the foundation of the world..here is an intresting question: did abraham and others in hebrews 11 partake of the NEW covenant?Indeed. Christ has always existed as the second member of the Godhead, and His sacrifice was before the foundations of the world. It is of eternal value, and saints of all ages have been saved by the precious blood of Christ. Saints of all ages have been cleansed by the precious blood of Christ. Saints of all ages have been partakers of Christ by his precious blood. One might argue, that indeed, Christ did not shed His blood until 2,000 years ago, but that does not change the fact that it's effect is eternal- from everlasting to everlasting. That is not to take away from what Hebrews says though, where it teaches a covenant is not inaugurated until the actual shedding of blood takes places (Heb 9:18). So, the covenant while eternal in nature, wasn't inaugurated until 2,000 years ago (in the linear sense of time).But, that's not to say that people born prior to 2,000 years ago were not partakers of the covenant. Indeed, Abraham and all the OT saints are partakers of the New Covenant, because they are partakers of the age to come through faith in Christ. By faith we experience the powers of the age to come in the here and now. Abraham and all the OT saints partook of the age to come... an age in which the New Covenant will still exist. So, if they are partakers of the age to come, they are thereby partakers of the New Covenant in the age to come. The New Covenant is not simply a covenant that is a linear covenant, as was the Old Covenant. The New Covenant is an eternal covenant, from everlasting to everlasting.