Christmas trees in Jeremiahs days.

A brother showed me this verse today:

Jeremiah 10:2-4: "Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not." (KJV).

I guess christmas trees arent a new thing

Wow, hadn't noticed that passage.

I'm sure their motives for cutting and decorating trees were different. My mother doesn't worship hers. In fact, if you asked her why she has it, she would probably say, "it was pretty, and on sale."

If you warned her, "did you know those were used in German pagan worship rituals," she would say, "Really?! What morons they were to worship trees instead of God who made them! Do you like mine? It's very pretty, isn't it."

I found the history in this article interesting.

[url=http://www.christianitytoday.com/ch/thepastinthepresent/storybehind/whychristmastrees.html?start=1]Why do we have Christmas trees?[/url]

[b]Jeremiah 10:2-4[/b] [color=990000]Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, [b]the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.[/b] They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.[/color]

They make an idol out of the tree, by forming the wood with an ax.
They don't make a tree onto an idol.

Hi everyone,

They make an idol out of the tree, by forming the wood with an ax.

I think that the idol is made by the worship given to it and the place it is given in the heart, and when that which is not God is treated as though it were:

"They [i]are[/i] upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also [i]is it[/i] in them to do good."

- Jeremiah 10:5(KJV)

I once questioned a group of people that were preaching downtown during Christmas about this subject. This passage from Jeremiah was one of the passages they appealed to in railing against Christmas trees.

They suggested to me that if I were to place a package in front of a Christmas tree, and kneel down in the process of doing it, that the act of doing so would be contrary to the law against idolatry in Exodus.

I asked them what they thought of God's commandment to Moses to make a serpent and put it on a pole in the wilderness:

"And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live."

- Numbers 21:8(KJV)

Was it an act of idolatry for the Israelites to look upon a brassen serpent fixed to a wooden pole? But those that looked, believing the word of God through Moses, it says, were healed:

"And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived."

- Numbers 21:9(KJV)

And were they not clear in this because their faith was toward God in what He had said?

But I think that we ought to be carefull not to trouble the consciences of those who have liberty and an otherwise clear concience in what they have in their private homes before God.

Grace and peace to you all in Christ.

As Logic already pointed out, the people in question here are making an idol out of the tree. If you continue with that reasoning, then you wouldn't be able to have pictures up on your wall, etc.

If you continue with that reasoning, then you wouldn't be able to have pictures up on your wall, etc.

Where will it end? If you allow bitterness to grasp you, it will eat away like a canker. Yes, I said bitterness. The most lethal cankers are those that expand in the realm of spirit, cloaked by an auora of "godliness" and "sanctification" by those whose consciences are offended by certain objects they deem as pagan. In most cases, however, the consciences of these believers are surprisingly accomodating and malleable when the issue of jeopardizing their own personal comfort and convenience comes into play.

What happens is, in their irrepressible quest to be holy and separate from pagandom, they surface-scan the scriptures and tediously pick apart the etymology of each and every event in life that others might find enjoyment in. If they find any trace of an element that doesnt conform to their preconceived ideal of how Christianity should operate, the whole shebang is automatically labelled anathema and discarded. Deep down, however, these "anathema hunters" are full of unrest, critique and disdain. It is a paradox; you would think God would verify their zealous disassociations and pagan insights, but, for the most part, the Lord does not infer His fragrance upon their critiques. I think He does not touch them, because He knows the root from which they bloom. The more dry, the more parched the dirt, the less likely a frangrant flower will take root. Instead, we see wildflowers, crab grass, ragwed and cactus. I propose that much of the sharpshooting and pagan allegations we see this time of the year (and in general) are nothing more than wildflowers. They look pretty from a distance - brilliant colors - but have no aroma of sweetness. They smell like dirt up close. And a factor that contribues to their resplendency it the fact that they all bunch togeter in one patch.

Hello and blessings everyone,

This thread caught my attention because I had just read this passage again last week.

Logic quoted that the people were not worshiping the "tree" so to speak, but that they were cutting down a tree out of the forest so that they could carve an image out of the wood.

I agree, I too feel that this is what these verses mean.

Of course that does not mean that everything or image that a person carves out of wood is an idol, (for instance, little farm animals I gave my grandchildren) it just means that we are not to carve or make anything for the purpose of worshiping it.

These people would then decorate the carved image with gold and silver and stand it up and worship it.

This sounds a lot like when the Israelites formed an image out of melted gold (golden calf).
It also makes me think of a totem pole.
The difference was one was carved out of wood, the other was formed of gold.

Here's where the sin lies,

The Israelites made the image of the golden calf to worship... just like the heathen that Jeremiah referred to were doing.

I bought a bronze statue of a buffalo for my husband to place next to his sharps rifle and buffalo picture, I appreciate it's beauty and somebody's talent....

But I worship GOD

Blessings, bonni

I thought it was an interesting verse, thats all, I do have a christmastree in my house, i dont pass judgment on anyone that has, the verse made me go a bit like Michael "wow".

I believe this is under the freedom Paul speaks about, some eat some dont. Seeing it pretty much is the same principal i think. Some dont feel ok with it and dont have it, some feel ok with it and have it.

PaulWest wrote:
What happens is, in their irrepressible quest to be holy and separate from pagandom, they surface-scan the scriptures and tediously pick apart the etymology of each and every event in life that others might find enjoyment in. If they find any trace of an element that doesnt conform to their preconceived ideal of how Christianity should operate, the whole shebang is automatically labelled anathema and discarded. Deep down, however, these "anathema hunters" are full of unrest, critique and disdain. It is a paradox; you would think God would verify their zealous disassociations and pagan insights, but, for the most part, the Lord does not infer His fragrance upon their critiques. I think He does not touch them, because He knows the root from which they bloom. The more dry, the more parched the dirt, the less likely a frangrant flower will take root. Instead, we see wildflowers, crab grass, ragwed and cactus. I propose that much of the sharpshooting and pagan allegations we see this time of the year (and in general) are nothing more than wildflowers. They look pretty from a distance - brilliant colors - but have no aroma of sweetness. They smell like dirt up close. And a factor that contribues to their visual resplendency it the fact that they all bunch togeter in one patch.

I am sorry if i have done this, I need to take a step back and consider the things you say. Thank you for saying so.

I thought it was an interesting verse, thats all, I do have a christmastree in my house, i dont pass judgment on anyone that has, the verse made me go a bit like Michael "wow".

Now, these verses in the hand of an uninformed and angry person with a chip on his/her shoulders against Christmas will transform it into a weapon to stumble other believers. What we see happen is the actual equivalent of a spiritual "strawman" argument. I guess we can call it a "treeman" here :-)

I didn't think that this was your intent, Christian. I'm sorry that I didn't put down a disclaimer. Merry Christmas to you and Happy New Year dear brother.

p.s. We didn't get a tree this year. Too busy at the funeral home and my wife and I are just being lazy. This is the last year we celebrate the holidays and New Year with just the two of us :)

Lord willing, with the baby next year, we'll have a beautiful tree with all the garland and lights and lots of photographs and memories to share with my family.

PaulWest wrote:
We didn't get a tree this year. Too busy at the funeral home and my wife and I are just being lazy. This is the last year we celebrate the holidays and New Year with just the two of us :)

Lord willing, with the baby next year, we'll have a beautiful tree with all the garland and lights and lots of photographs and memories to share with my family.

I rejoice with you and your wife, i have quiver full my self :-) , i pray all goes well. I was still an unbeliever when my first children came into the world, i had twins first time and it was very powerful, i remember i thought in my unconverted state that there must be a God, because such perfection can not come from nothing, evolution happened by chance ect.

Truly this is wonderful brother, congratulations to you and your wife. May the Lord grant you a house full of energetic children that make you age ;-)

Also, one thing i noted for myself is, the revelation of God as a loving father becomes somewhat stronger when you have your own children. Anyway, its incredible and i am glad you will receive this blessing brother.

As I read this thread, I am becoming more and more convinced that the trees are indeed an idol.

Personally, the Lord has shown me that this is something that He does not want me to have - so I will obey. If next year, He directs me to put up a tree, I will obey. Similarly, if He wants me to go into a bar, I will go in. If He wants me to stay out, I will stay out. Only He knows what is right. He has proven this to me time and again. My wisdom is but foolishness.

It would seem, after the things that I have read here, that it would be wise to at least pray before we make a decision on these things - for there will be a price to be paid in going forward in our own strength.

When I was a teenager, I played with a Ouji board. When it moved on it's own, it scared me and I never played with one again. However, when the Lord was purging me of all of the evil of my past, this was one of the things that I had to repent of - even though I did not understand fully what I had done. I actually went and dug up the picture that was taken of me using the board - and I burned it. While the Lord has not had me repent of having Christmas trees, we must take into consideration that there are spiritual things happening that we are not aware of. The enemy would have us align ourselves with the things of this world, and only our Saviour can save us from doing such things.

Hi everyone,

As I read this thread, I am becoming more and more convinced that the trees are indeed an idol.

I would like to make a general suggestion here if I could?

I do not think that a strong response to something is nescessarily an indication that the thing is an idol to others.

For instance, implications or things that are implied by the introduction of a topic can be offensive and can provoke a strong response also.

Like if a man were to walk into a crowded room and announce to everyone that [b]the room stinks[/b]. That persons opinon about the room would likely be offensive to those who were already in it, even if they couldn't care less about the room itself.

In the same way, being reproached as an idolater could be offensive also, whether you care about the supposed idol or not.

The Apostle Paul asks

[i]...who is offended, and I burn not? [/i]

As much as we ought to be carefull to guard against idolatry, we ought also be carefull to guard against falsely charging the consciences of others with guilt. There are consequences for going forward with that also. Amen?

Grace and peace to you all.

falsely charging the consciences of others with guilt.

Pretty much everything I say seems to be offensive. :-?

Hi Heartsong,

About charging others with guilt,

You had said before that you were increasingly convinced after reading this thread that the Christmas trees were idols.

If they are not, and others take what you have said to be true, and feel guilty of idolatry for having them in their homes, wouldn't this be like placing guilt in the conscience of others that is not right or should not rightfully be there?

How can it be that my words would "place guilt" in the conscience of others?

From what I have experienced, there are two influences - good and evil. If I have my eyes on the Lord, and am abiding in Him, what others say is of very little consequence regarding the things that I do, or do not do. However, if I have taken my eyes off of the Lord, or have taken to doing things outside of His will, the voices of others can be VERY condemning.

It is not my intention to "place guilt" on others. Another one of my concerns is that all of the justification of these Christmas traditions could lure others away from being obedient unto the Lord, for He has had me to cease from such things, and I am sure that He would have the same for others.

For what it is worth, the Lord has given me visions of these Christmas threads as being the equivalent of "dancing around the golden calf" (the mention of same, earlier in this thread, brought it all to the surface again). This has been very painful as I have considered many of you to be my friends, but I can not endure the mocking of my Lord.

Would anyone care to define 'idol', preferably from the biblical context?

I am not sure if this is the biblical context, but I understand it to be anything that I love more than the Lord Jesus.

"For when one says, "I am for Christmas trees (of Paul)," and another, "I am not for Christmas trees (of Apollos)," are you not carnal." 1Cointhians 3:4 (revised version)