False views concerning the church going through the great tribulation!

I have noticed that many are saying that the church will go through the great tribulation. Where in the bible does it say that we are to prepare for the great tribulation? Where does it say that we are supposed to go through the great tribulation?

The scripture says that we are to look for the coming of the Lord unto salvation. We are to watch and wait unto the coming of the Lord and are to be purified as he is purified. We are to live worthy of the Lord so that we can escape all things that are coming upon the earth.

I for one am not looking to go through the great tribulation; I am looking for my Lord every moment and preparing to meet him. I want to see him and be pure as he is pure.

I believe that if you are looking to go through the tribulation then you just may get what you are looking for, but as for me, I will always be looking for my Lord to deliver me from every evil work and to present me faultless before him in glory.

Many may go through the tribulation, but I am looking for the Lord Jesus, and his great deliverance. The bible says "without holiness no man shall see the Lord". Looking for the Lord and striving to please Him, so that you will ready to meet Him in the rapture is biblical. Looking to go through the great tribulation is not the same as looking for the Lord. Fear of the great tribulation will not make you holy. The Lord is the only one who can make us Holy and ready to meet him. The bible teaches us to fear the Lord and be ready to meet him.

send me and email. i dont have time tonight to explain. but i will. ok.

read matthew, and thessolonians. they talk about what to look for when jesus is coming again.

also, another quick note, this is not some fantisy we are all making up so we can put some excitement into "religion" this is biblical prophecys we belive are being fuffiled so fast it is unnormal

this site that i'm sending you a link to is based on the bible. they read from the bible then figure out what it means. they dont make up some crazy idea then find scripture to match it.

http://www.contenderministries.org

and msot of us here are not scared of the tribulation, we are infact ready and anxious to meet jesus. When will he come? "no man noeth the hour nor the day" that is in the bible, give me some time i have to make this quick.

also;
biblegateway.com.

in christ's word i will speak to you..
allan

Hi there,

From what I know of the Scriptures, I don't believe that the Church (the Bride of Christ) will suffer the wrath of God (aka "the Great Tribulation"). Why do I lean toward this belief? The Church has historically suffered persecution, tribulation and the wrath of men. This will not change (and will only increase). However, the wrath of God -- the judgments that God will pour out upon the WHOLE WORLD -- has only historically been poured out upon those who did not belong to Him.

God has historically withheld His judgment from the righteous...and stores it up for the unrighteous. This was true of Noah and his family, Lot and his family, the Israelites in Egypt, the righteous in the wilderness, etc... God would not pour [u]His[/u] wrath upon Sodom if just ten righteous people would be found (even though the inhabitants of that city were ready to pour out tribulation upon the messengers). I feel that God has set a precedent in regard to His character and the targets to which He pours out His wrath. The Scriptures are clear that God has not appointed us to suffer wrath (in the same passage about the way the Lord will return - I Thessalonians 5:9). God has also promised to keep us from that "hour of trial" that will come upon the entire earth (Revelation 3:10). This is my personal view...and current direction for which I currently lean regarding to what I feel the Scriptures say on the matter.

That being said: I don't think that it is wise to state with an absolute regarding this matter. I do lean toward a belief that God will either provide a way of escape for His people [i]from[/i] His wrath...or that He will protect us [i]during[/i] that wrath (although this seems to be contrary to the descriptions of those judgments...that will destroy entire portions of the Earth). Yet I can't say that I am entirely certain either way (or [i]any[/i] way).

This has been said by many people many times. We should be prepared to face any tribulation, persecution...or even judgment...before the end of all things. Somewhere in the world today, people are [u]suffering[/u] for their faith. We should be ready to die for our Lord. However, I am entirely open to the distinct possibility that I might not suffer from the wrath of God. Like Keith Green said, "[i]Pray for pre-trib but prepare for post-trib[/i]" (this has probably been repeated many times on this website). David Wilkerson said it well, "[i]Some people believe in pre-trib. Some people believe in post-trib. I believe in 'PAN-trib.' It will all PAN out in the end[/i]!"

Either way...come Lord Jesus!!!

:-)

One the greatest events to come will be the bridegroom returning for the bride.

The post trib. position turns this into a post trib or pre trib debate.

Notice we are exhorted at the end of the bible to declare and welcome his soon return.

20He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

21The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

We look to the return of Jesus. Not the advent of the Antichrist.
From my study I have noted the Bride is in heaven along with the wedding supper immediately before the white horsses. Therefore the rapture must precede the great tribulation.

Rev 19 7Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

10And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Under a post trib format the bride mounts riderless horses as they come down from heaven.
Therefore the bride NEVER sees heaven. This is technically impossible.
Also the parable of the 10 virgins clearly points to the rapture. Bridegroom-bride-heaven

Luke 21
36Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

quote

" Thus Satan has succeeded in lulling multitudes of Christians with a false comfort, so that they will be unprepared for the great tribulation when it does come upon them."
I totally disagree , this is a shaky method to discern scripture,better to let scripture interpret scripture

Actually the analogy of "unprepared" fits those that were caught unprepared for the return of the master

44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

45Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

46Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

47Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

48But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Quote;
" it is not surprising that they have gladly accepted this teaching of a pre-tribulation rapture of the church. Thus Satan has succeeded in lulling multitudes of Christians with a false comfort, so that they will be unprepared for the great tribulation when it does come upon them."

Nope,It is biblical and we are commanded to look to his return.
The false comfort,ironically, falls on those looking for the anti-christ.......no need to be ready for Jesus.

Bravo rreighe! Contender is one of the few that actually look at the marrige supper,the white horses,the bride,and groom.

Will save this site.
Thanks

Verses to emphasize: from [b]Matthew 24[/b]
[b]3.[/b] \tAnd as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

[b]15. [/b]\tWhen ye therefore shall see the [u]abomination of desolation[/u], spoken of by Daniel the prophet

My memory may be mistaken but isn't the "abomination of desolation" in the middle of the tribulation period, the 3½ year point?

[b]21.[/b] \t[u]For then[/u] shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
[b]22.[/b] \tAnd except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

For the elect's sake, what days shall be shortened?

[b]29.[/b] \t[b][u]Immediately after[/u] the tribulation[/b] of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

[b]Revelation 8
12.[/b] \tAnd the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

I do believe this is referring to the 4th trumpet.

[b]30.[/b] \tAnd then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
[b]31.[/b] \tAnd he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

And this rapture is at the end of all these things.

Now, of course, is this really a post-tribulation rapture? Or is this another rapture? Or is there a pre-trib & post-trib rapture . . . ?

Many may go through the tribulation, but I am looking for the Lord Jesus, and his great deliverance. The bible says "without holiness no man shall see the Lord". Looking for the Lord and striving to please Him, so that you will ready to meet Him in the rapture is biblical. Looking to go through the great tribulation is not the same as looking for the Lord. Fear of the great tribulation will not make you holy.

"Looking to go through the great tribulation is not the same as looking for the Lord."
What if it is? What if looking for the Lord requires going through the great tribulation?

Personally, I don't care. If we are ready to stand before the devouring Flame and give an account of the grace we have received in Christ then we are ready to persevere through some brief tribulation, however terrible it may be for its time.

I agree with brother Greg, we are too comfortable and (as Ravenhill would say) desirous to be raptured from responsibility. And this frankly has zero impact upon the reality of the Christian life. The only thing that matters is that Christ is coming soon, will he find us serving him faithfully when he returns?

rbanks wrote:
I believe that if you are looking to go through the tribulation then you just may get what you are looking for, but as for me, I will always be looking for my Lord to deliver me from every evil work and to present me faultless before him in glory.

This letter is all over, you can type her name and tribulation. From Corrie Ten Boom herself....

[i][b]There are some among us teaching there will be no tribulation, that the Christians will be able to escape all this.[/b] These are the false teachers that Jesus was warning us to expect in the latter days. Most of them have little knowledge of what is already going on across the world. I have been in countries where the saints are already suffering terrible persecution.

[b]In China, the Christians were told, "Don't worry, before the tribulation comes you will be translated – raptured." Then came a terrible persecution.[/b] Millions of Christians were tortured to death. Later I heard a Bishop from China say, sadly,[/i]

[b]"We have failed.
We should have made the people strong for persecution,
rather than telling them Jesus would come first.
Tell the people how to be strong in times of persecution,
how to stand when the tribulation comes,
– to stand and not faint." [/b]

[i]I feel I have a divine mandate to go and tell the people of this world that it is possible to be strong in the Lord Jesus Christ. [b]We are in training for the tribulation, but more than sixty percent of the Body of Christ across the world has already entered into the tribulation. There is no way to escape it. We are next. [/b]

Since I have already gone through prison for Jesus' sake, and since I met the Bishop in China, now every time I read a good Bible text I think, "Hey, I can use that in the time of tribulation." Then I write it down and learn it by heart.

When I was in the concentration camp, a camp where only twenty percent of the women came out alive, we tried to cheer each other up by saying, "Nothing could be any worse than today." But we would find the next day was even worse. During this time a Bible verse that I had committed to memory gave me great hope and joy.

"If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye;
for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you;
on their part evil is spoken of,
but on your part He is glorified."
(I Peter 3:14)

I found myself saying, "Hallelujah!
Because I am suffering, Jesus is glorified!"

[b]In America, the churches sing, "Let the congregation escape tribulation", but in China and Africa the tribulation has already arrived. This last year alone more than two hundred thousand Christians were martyred in Africa. Now things like that never get into the newspapers because they cause bad political relations. But I know. I have been there.[/b]

We need to think about that when we sit down in our nice houses with our nice clothes to eat our steak dinners. Many, many members of the Body of Christ are being tortured to death at this very moment, yet we continue right on as though we are all going to escape the tribulation.
[/i]

psalm1 wrote:
One the greatest events to come will be the bridegroom returning for the bride.

Under a post trib format the bride mounts riderless horses as they come down from heaven.
Therefore the bride NEVER sees heaven. This is technically impossible. Also the parable of the 10 virgins clearly points to the rapture. Bridegroom-bride-heaven

Luke 21
36Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

And here are two of Zac Poonen's studies:
1. [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=157&min=280&orderby=titleA&show=20](revelation)[/url] - On pages 15 - 16 (so far!)

2. [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=157&min=340&orderby=titleA&show=20](The Last days & the Lord's coming)[/url]. All are good but check out The Great Deception.

I was pre-trib until I actually sat down for a few months and read the Scriptures for all three sides with an open mind and much prayer.

Thanks for posting this Lysa. In John 17:15, Jesus said,"I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil."

I fully expect persecution in this nation. I believe it will be instrumental in separating the wheat from the chaff. I know our whole beings cry out against the thought of physical harm, but we must be willing to accept what comes our way. He will keep us from falling.

I do want to clarify though that there is a difference between suffering the persecution we will endure as a body and the wrath that will be poured out upon the ungodly. These are two separate issues. As a saint, I expect persecution, but as one that is His servant, I believe I will be protected from the judgements.

Remember Noah, Moses, Lot, Jeremiah etc. They were kept from the evil issued to the wicked, but they were there to behold it with their eyes. We are no better than our fathers dear saints.

KathleenP wrote:
Thanks for posting this Lysa. In John 17:15, Jesus said,"I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil."

I fully expect persecution in this nation. I believe it will be instrumental in separating the wheat from the chaff. I know our whole beings cry out against the thought of physical harm, but we must be willing to accept what comes our way. He will keep us from falling.

I do want to clarify though that there is a difference between suffering the persecution we will endure as a body and the wrath that will be poured out upon the ungodly. These are two separate issues. As a saint, I expect persecution, but as one that is His servant, I believe I will be protected from the judgements.

Remember Noah, Moses, Lot, Jeremiah etc. They were kept from the evil issued to the wicked, but they were there to behold it with their eyes. We are no better than our fathers dear saints.

Amen

I think there is too much casual talk about the great tribulation, that time of the great wrath of God.

We in our extended family bible study are currently in the middle of going through the book of revelation. What is so clear and shocking is the terrible outpouring of the wrath of Almighty God during this time. A third of the world's population destroyed by plagues, earthquakes, fire and brimstone, stinging creatures, no daylight, etc etc...

To say this is the same as tribulation that is currently being experienced is to REALLY mis-understand. Of course we will all suffer persecution if we live Godly lives. I don't say this to make light of the persecution our brothers are suffering at present throughout the world.

I personally believe that we in the West will see persecution that we have not experienced for many centuries and may even cost us our lives. However as I said the GREAT TRIBULATION is completely different to this. No comparison!

Hi Lysa

This letter is all over, you can type her name and tribulation. From Corrie Ten Boom herself....

There are some among us teaching there will be no tribulation, that the Christians will be able to escape all this. These are the false teachers that Jesus was warning us to expect in the latter days. Most of them have little knowledge of what is already going on across the world. I have been in countries where the saints are already suffering terrible persecution.

In China, the Christians were told, "Don't worry, before the tribulation comes you will be translated – raptured." Then came a terrible persecution. Millions of Christians were tortured to death. Later I heard a Bishop from China say, sadly,

Persecution has always been around. The Old Testament prophets were murdered for their faith. Believers in the New Testament were tortured and murdered through terrible persecutions (from the days following the resurrection through the days of the Roman inquisition...to those persecuted in some muslim today).

What will make the "Great Tribulation" so "great" and "terrible?" For one, the Antichrist will be at work...deceiving the nations into even more widespread persecution of the Church -- to a point where people will assume that they are doing God a favor when they persecute us. But that isn't too different from persecution that some experience today or throughout history (just from a much more concentrated effort). What will make the "Great Tribulation" so terrible is that God will be the One pouring out His wrath (that has been "stored up")! In those days, God will pour out His wrath and destroy, in an instant, entire portions of the Earth (a third here, a third there).

The question here is whether or not God will pour that wrath upon us (his children...Christ's Bride). The notion of a "rapture" is the notion that Christ will gather His Bride BEFORE God pours out His wrath upon the Earth. Period. It doesn't teach that we should be unprepared to face trials, tribulations and terrible persecutions at the hands of men. Rather, we should expect those things...even as we should have expected them from the beginning.

I don't like the word "rapture." I prefer the word "escape" or "gathering." It might be, in my opinion, like the protection offered to Noah who was gathered into the ark before the flood (because Christ likens His coming to the days of Noah...eating and drinking and being merry before that day). It might be like the gathering of Lot and his family before the destruction of Sodom. It might be like the passover for those covered by lamb's blood during the great plagues of Egypt. It might be like a Groom who has gone to prepare a home for us...who will return to gather His Bride at a time when she (*and He) [i]knoweth not[/i]. By the way, I have always marveled at the fact that the Son doesn't know when He will return. You would think that, if He understood Bible prophecy well, He would know such a thing! Then again, it seems like Christ will return to gather His Bride...before that other Great and Terrible day when He will return to Judge the nations with the sword of His mouth.

Regardless of what you identify it with...it is simply a notion that God has not appointed us to suffer His wrath. His wrath is what will make those days so terrible...in which people will call out to mountains to fall upon them and cover them from the face of the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End and the Creator and Destroyer of all things.

How does this idea reconcile with Scriptures about believers of that time? Well, there will still be believers during that time! However, this idea explains that those will be the people who [i]became[/i] believers during that time. The rest of us will have gone to be with the Lord...gathered to be present with Him during the marriage supper of the Lamb.

However, please don't mistake the way that I currently feel regarding the End to be any sort of ultimate, undeniable doctrine that I should preach to sinners. I am not entirely sure about just how the end will come EITHER way! I do, however, get upset when I hear believers preach with authority what they believe...leaving no room for error or the possibility of being incorrect. Why can't we say that we aren't ENTIRELY certain that it will happen this way...and that we should be prepared for ANYTHING? We should be prepared for tribulation, persecution...and even the possibility of dying at the hands of God (if God so wills it). Our love for Him...and knowledge of what awaits us on the other side (to see the face of God) should help us endure through anything!!!

I just would like to caution those on EITHER side (or ANY side) of this discussion to mingle their words with the salt of being aware of our own doctrinal limitations (because those doctrines are often settled upon by our own flawed human reasoning). The Word of God does not say, with complete clarity, that Jesus will take His Bride before the wrath or God, during the wrath of God or after the wrath of God. So we are left with assumptions. That is all that these are. Someone will undoubtedly be correct...but we need to be so longing to be with Jesus that we don't really care how the end will come. To live is Christ, you know.

Just some things to think about.

Hi Greg...

It is not surprising therefore that the doctrine that Jesus would come secretly and take (rapture) His church out of the world, before the great tribulation, arose for the first time in a country (England) where Christians were living in comfort, and at a time (mid-19th century) when they were not facing any persecution for their faith at all. Today this doctrine continues to be proclaimed and believed by Christians who live in ease and comfort, in countries where there is no persecution against Christians at all.

Since the prayers of most Christians are basically of this order : “Lord make my life more comfortable on earth”, it is not surprising that they have gladly accepted this teaching of a pre-tribulation rapture of the church. Thus Satan has succeeded in lulling multitudes of Christians with a false comfort, so that they will be unprepared for the great tribulation when it does come upon them.

I certainly feel that it is presumptuous that Brother Poonen will publicly conclude that this idea is a [i]Satanic[/i] plot to throw the Church into wallowing in comfort when those of us who might lean toward such a notion are fully prepared for persecution and tribulation. Perhaps he should be a little less hasty in teaching this as if he himself knows the exact manner of the end? I am keenly aware that the End will come...and I should be prepared for whatever manner that it comes. I just don't really care too much. I just want to be with Jesus...sit with Him...suffer for Him...and finally...to see the Face of the One who made me...of whom I gladly pour out my life.

:-)

When my children need punishment I dont punish all 4 of them because 2 of them were being disobedient. I send the other 2 to another room and I punish the disobedient ones.

I believe God, our Father, operates the same way. It's as simple as that.

You are exactly correct about how we discipline our children. But we all are in the same house and must watch those who are being disciplined. You don't take your children out of the house to save them from the others being disciplined do you?

Isaiah 55.9 [i]As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. [/i]

And exactly as Kathleen said, in John 17:15, Jesus said,"I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest [b]keep[/b] them from the evil." Keep does not mean removed.