Joel Osteen on Glenn Beck last night...

sermonindex Jan 20, 2009

Saw Joel Osteen on Glenn Beck's show last night. The context of the conversation was how people in this world can get along, even if they disagree. Osteen was waxing eloquently about how we should always treat people with a spirit of love even if we disagree on everything... and then Osteen said something to the effect that he has been all over the world. He said he's been to India where he's met many "great and wonderful Hindu people who love God with all their hearts."

I'm sorry... but this needs to be said: ~~[b]~~Joel Osteen is a theological dork.[/b]

Krispy

sermonindex Jan 20, 2009

Following is a further analysis of Joel Osteen, comparing his doctrine with true Christian Doctrine, as found in the Bible.

Go to www.youtube.com and search for:

~~[b]~~Joel Osteen versus Paul Washer[/b]

You will see parts 1, 2, & 3 that document the heresy of Joel Osteen, and others like him.

Sincerely,

Walter

sermonindex Jan 20, 2009

Thanx Waltern... seen it and heard it all before both on YouTube (which we're not supposed to link to on this forum), and in writing. It's been discussed here many times.

No secret that he is a flake. It's just that people rush to his defense even on this forum saying "it was just a gaff... he didnt mean that!" YET... here he is again... with the same gaff... again.

You would think that if he were so "gaff-prone" that speaking in front of thousands of people in Houston several times a week he would get better at public speaking.

I guess not.

Krispy

S

stephent Jan 20, 2009

Why do these kind of remarks from a "pastor" go unconfronted? Has major Denomination confronted him on what he teaches about what the Bible says?

T

TaylorOtwell Jan 20, 2009

As far as I know, he is not a part of a denomination.

In my opinion, this is one of the dangers of a radical independency in church structure.

May we pray the Lord would convict of sin, righteousness, and judgement - bringing him to receive and rest in Christ's propitiation for sinners.

sermonindex Jan 20, 2009

No church will confront him.... instead, they book him for their conferences and peddle his books.

Krispy

R

Ruach34 Jan 20, 2009

Krittr - I have to admit, your original post made me chuckle, "A theological dork," pretty much nails it.

Then the tragedy of it struck my heart...this 'theological dork-ness' is the reason for the 'darkness' in this nation. Men like this go unchecked, satisfied in their large, unbelieveably large, congregations leading many astray.

I am wondering, for the good of the site here, about a question...

In Hebrews 13:17 we see a curious statement, "Obey your leaders and submit to them for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account."

"...for they keep watch..."
in prayer and study. Stedfastly, earnestly applying themselves to prayer and the systematic, full study of the Bible.

"...over your souls..."
Maybe so that those in the church will not stray. Has a context of deep care for those in their care.

"...as those who will give account."
Uh-Oh! How can this whole passage, put together, be being worked out by a pastor of a 10 - 20,000 member congregation? Many of 'em don't even get the whole married relationship right, how much less the members of their own congregation?

My question is - How can a pastor fulfill this in a multi-thousand member church, even hundreds of members?

sermonindex Jan 20, 2009

Then the tragedy of it struck my heart...this 'theological dork-ness' is the reason for the 'darkness' in this nation. Men like this go unchecked, satisfied in their large, unbelieveably large, congregations leading many astray.

Exactly... it took him less than 3 seconds to make that statement, but it was on a TV show that is broadcasted around the world on FoxNews. How many people saw that around the world? When he says what he said... he is basically condemning souls to hell because they see him saying "you're ok in your deception... you're ok in your sin... God loves you! All you have to do is love the god you've created in your mind..."

I cant get past his slick car salesman exterior anyway, but he makes a used car salesman look trustworthy!

(no offense to any used car salesmen reading this!)

Krispy

R

rreighe Jan 20, 2009

(no offense to any used car salesmen reading this!)

haha my uncle is a car sales man and from what i heard he is quite trustworthy, at least in everyday things haha.

as for the theological dork, someone needs to talk to him! my mom watches him like every sunday. someone needs to tell him what's what.

S

Smokey Jan 21, 2009

Joel probably gets all kinds of good advice from true (Spirit filled) Christians, but for the most part any good council he receives seems to be falling on deaf ears.
Blessings Greg :-o

Edit:
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

sermonindex Jan 21, 2009

He's been to India where he has met"many great and wonderful people who loved God with all of their hearts.".

So have mother Teresa, and Mahatma Gandhi, but that doesn't mean the people they met were ever saved; Sad to say, but probably not. For that , you would have to repent, and receive the gospel, and be born again, which , I'm also sorry to say, Joel is quite ignorant of.

Joel Olsteen is more than a theological dork. He is a lost one who is leading the innocents his way....down.

M

MJones Jan 21, 2009

I don't know of anyone I agree with 100%. I even question myself sometimes. But I have to say this about Osteen.

During a very difficult time of my life, I sought God hard for strength. My mornings were with Him. In my evening liesure I would read or watch recorded sermons by Jakes and Osteen. I have to admit I questioned Osteen a few times, but God, in time, always allowed me to see his heart regarding what concerned me.

I am a builder. In building I use many different tools to build a house. Why is it so hard for us to see that God does the same. Sure Osteen is a little on the positive side. But there was a time God used that to help me.

I have actually watched him off and on for 2 years. So my opinion is not based on a couple of experiences with him. I see God using him for a purpose as He uses Wilkerson for a purpose. I see him over and over try to lift people's thoughts toward the awesome God that we serve. As I don't think satan would try to do that, his source then must be another.

I will take this one step further and say that satan will try to tear down what God is doing. He will use you, me or even Wilkerson to do that. If he can get into Peter, to where Jesus had to say to him, 'get thee behind me', none of us are beyond being used by him.

I know Wilkerson has spoke out against him. Though I have a lot of respect for Wilkerson, my personal opinion is that he is wrong. I respectfully submit to you that you are also wrong about Osteen.

Before you get mad, try to understand this one thing. I was the same way at one time. But in this test I went through, God burned all that out of me. I am not as prone to pick at faults as I used to be. We are all at fault until God cleanses us. Nothing cleanses like fire.

sermonindex Jan 21, 2009

Before you get mad, try to understand this one thing. I was the same way at one time. But in this test I went through, God burned all that out of me. I am not as prone to pick at faults as I used to be. We are all at fault until God cleanses us. Nothing cleanses like fire.

well spoke brother.....yes, well spoke.

here's what Peter Celcicky, a prime vessel of Christ wrote in c.1440

Our faith obliges us to bind wounds, not to make blood run…

I've been studying about him all day long, here's a link to a 166 page pdf wrapped book about this obscure, yet annointed man:

~~[url=http://www.nonresistance.org/docs_pdf/Net_of_Faith.pdf]~~Net of Faith[/url]

I hope you find it edifying, I have.

neil

oh yeh, here's the wikipedia condensed version on Peter Checicky:
~~[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petr_Chel%C4%8Dick%C3%BD]~~Peter Checicky[/url]

sermonindex Jan 21, 2009

God's Word does not return void. If a false teacher quotes John 3:16... John 3:16 is still John 3:16.

The problem is when truth gets mixed with error. No one in their right mind would drink poison. But if someone mixed poison into Kool-Aid and served it to you without warning you... you would drink of it, and be poisoned.

Thats the trouble with people like Osteen.

Krispy

sermonindex Jan 21, 2009

As Christians, we are responsible for undersanding false doctrine, and exposing it for what it is by promoting God's true Doctrine, as found in the Bible.

2 Timothy tells us to:
15. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.study, and show ourselves approved unto God, rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

If I was a non-believer, on my death bed, and was listening to Joel Osteen, would I ever hear the Gospel from him? The answer is no. I could be in full agreement with everything he had to say, but never hear the requirement that I must repent of my sin, and accept Jesus Christ as my Lord & Savior, and believe that God raised Him from the dead.

In other words, without my repentance and belief in Him and His Works, I would never be saved, and when I took my last breath, after Osteen's message ended, I would be on my way hell.

Sincerley,

Walter

Natan4Jesus wrote:
Before you get mad, try to understand this one thing. I was the same way at one time. But in this test I went through, God burned all that out of me. I am not as prone to pick at faults as I used to be. We are all at fault until God cleanses us. Nothing cleanses like fire.
well spoke brother.....yes, well spoke.
here's what Peter Celcicky, a prime vessel of Christ wrote in c.1440

Our faith obliges us to bind wounds, not to make blood run…
I've been studying about him all day long, here's a link to a 166 page pdf wrapped book about this obscure, yet annointed man:
~~[url=http://www.nonresistance.org/docs_pdf/Net_of_Faith.pdf]~~Net of Faith[/url]
I hope you find it edifying, I have.
neil
oh yeh, here's the wikipedia condensed version on Peter Checicky:
~~[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petr_Chel%C4%8Dick%C3%BD]~~Peter Checicky[/url]

sermonindex Jan 21, 2009

Quote.....

"I will take this one step further and say that satan will try to tear down what God is doing. He will use you, me or even Wilkerson to do that. If he can get into Peter, to where Jesus had to say to him, 'get thee behind me', none of us are beyond being used by him. "

And conversly, it is possible that Joel's messages could be used to tear down Wilkerson. If God is trying to wake up a nation to the ills of materialism and the soul rot of chasing after riches, then the soothing voices of "its all right, God wants you to have all of that,' would not really be helpful. In everything there is a balance, a tension, then of course, there is the word of God.............Frank

sermonindex Jan 21, 2009

lovingly, meekly, I say, too much blood has been shed in the past by Christians:

As Christians, we are responsible for undersanding false doctrine, and exposing it for what it is by promoting God's true Doctrine, as found in the Bible.

that act of "exposing" false doctrine has been at the root of so much blood being shed in the past, by those who deem themselves as "wall-watchers", declaring this one or that one "hereticks", tying them to a stack and burning them.

You can't do that anyway now, you'd be charged with murder, but Joel Osteen....so what? Who really cares? for every "Joel Osteen", there's a thousand Spirit filled pastors namelessly laboring away for Jesus. You quoted 2 Timothy, Pauls last letter, his most poignant letter

Study to shew thyself approved unto God

study to show thyself to Who?....man?

no, to show thyself approved to God, you know that.

and as that verse goes onto to reiterate that very point:

a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.study, and show ourselves approved unto God, rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

Why is that solid believers feel the need to "expose" these shaky quirky exhorters?

are you, or Krispy, or me BETTER than Joel Osteen?

Does God need our help in bringing to light that what must be brought to light?

For all the postings and htreads regarding Todd Bentley, do you think they "helped" God at all, exposing Todd?

or what about Ted Haggard? the former head of NAE, who many here might have lifted up as a prime vessel of Christ, for his vociferious stance on homosexual marriage, yet Who was it Who exposed Ted Haggard as a homosexual whore-mongering meth addict?

It was God, not you or me or Steve. God did it.

NONE of us is "better" than Joel Osteen, and the day we start to think that we are, watch out, coz "religious pride" starts to ooze through these threads, and God doesn't approve of that.

I don't wish for any contention, or argument, brothers, believe me. I, personally have so much to contend for in my own walk with Jesus, I dont give nary a thought to the Osteen's, the bentleys, or the Hinns of this world, Jesus will handle them.

in His love, neil

R

roaringlamb Jan 21, 2009

I submit this humbly and as an honest question that I hope we all could mull over for a bit.

Joel Osteen is simply preaching from a framework of semi-Pelagian/Arminian views of man. So it is no wonder why he feels that man can simply be true to the light he feels or sees and be saved apart from the work of Christ.

I am not stating this to start a Cal/Arm debate, but simply to show that the logical flow of those beliefs that were said to be heretical in the past are what has produced much of what people complain about today in the Church.

If we were back in the 1500s or 1600s, Arminius would be the Osteen of the day, and men like John Owen, John Calvin and others would have called him a theological doofus.

So my main question is this; how is it that people can tear apart Joel Osteen and be "right" in doing so, but if any question those who were deemed heretics previously, we are "intellectual" or "cruel" or any other host of names that are levied against us. (please note, I am not saying "us" to mark an us/them debate, but rather to show that there is a small group on SI that are looked upon differently because of our Biblical convictions).

May we ponder this deeply, and learn Church history so that we may avoid the errors that we are suffering from now and that the person and work of Christ would be above all things.

sermonindex Jan 21, 2009

Roar... what Osteen said has nothing to do with the Calvin/Arminian debate. What Osteen promotes in reality is Universalism.

As for the other comments concerning "exposing/blood letting"... or whatever... stop being a spiritual wimp (:-)). The fact is that Osteen is a tremendously influencial leader world-wide. Whenever something false comes out of his mouth it potentially reaches and influences MILLIONS of souls.

I'm convinced my realm of influence is considerably smaller... if I even have a realm of influence!

Krispy

R

roaringlamb Jan 21, 2009

Krispy,

I know that it is not a debate on Cal/Arm, but(planting my tongue firmly in my cheek), if we come down hard on Osteen for teaching universalism simply because he feels that man has "light within" and "divine DNA in his veins". Is that any different than Arminius saying similar things? or Fox(founder of the Friends/Quakers)?

Where do we draw the line? If the same thing being said by one before is heralded as truth(Arminus, Fox, Finney) does it now become untruth because another(Osteen) says it?

Sure he believes in universalism, but I am sure he would also out of the other side of his mouth talk of how Jesus is his Savior. But he also would be one of the first to say that theology doesn't matter, but rather life, or how your truth impacts your life. Or basically what pragmatism says is the way to prove if something is true(i.e. "does it work?").

But is that makes Christianity true? My testimony has no impact upon Christ's death, burial, and resurrection. Those truths are true regardless of how I live.

Sorry to ramble man, it's just that we are in strange times in the Church, and the truth of the Gospel has been subjected to if it works in my life, like some sort of product: "try it, you'll like it, if not, you can have your money back".

All of these issues we deal with have Gospel implications and that's the ONLY reason I ask these questions, to get people to use their brains and wrestle through some hard questions with Scripture.

Blessings to you brother.