Distraught and so confused!

Dear believers,

My name is Joshua Akin...I don't really know how to address this issue...so I will try my best to give a clear picture of myself and what is happening in my life...

Just so you know this is the first time I've posted a message here on Sermon Index...Although this site is not new to me. I "used" to come here often, so I could listen to REAL preaching.
Men like Leonard Ravenhill, Paris Reidhead, Keith Daniels and Paul Washer.

Anyway...I was brought up in a small church in a small town under my grandfather's preaching. and back then? The norm for "salvation" to me and everyone I knew was that "If you prayed a prayer to ask Jesus to come into your heart!" You were born again...You know SAVED! At least that was what I understood! So I lived through my youth believing that I was for sure saved!

--> skip ahead a couple of years my family moves to the city (this is when I was about 15-16 yrs old) and we eventually start going to this one service at this larger church! It's on a monday night and it's mostly geared towards young adults! You know loud music, "dynamic preaching" and fire tunnels! At the time for me? This is so normal! This is church!! YA!! THIS IS LIKE THAT REVIVAL WE HEARD ABOUT! Oohhh, this is revival! At least growing up in a small church and coming to that! Wow, I mean that was the sort of thing you sought after in a smaller church! At least I thought so... Anyway, this monday night service had those strange manifestations at those "revivals"! You know the kind where everyone goes up to the front and they got the music building up the atmosphere and emotion and then the "ministry team" comes and the pastor is laying hands on people! People start rolling in the aisles and shaking, etc...Of course! I'm thinking this is totally normal! It seems to line up pretty well with what I believe and what I grew up with!

--> skip a few more years! I've come through that whole experience and after awhile that "revival" stuff...it just seemed to fade away...like it was nothing! I wasn't sure what had happened! But I came away from it thinking that that! was revival! This is church! This is "christian" but still something inside me! It was like a feeling! I felt like I was fooling around...that this isn't really it, is it?
Because I was a "christian" but I was sinning! Constantly! and I really wasn't sure if I could really be a christian and be doing the things that I was doing!!

I came to a point where I had enough! I felt like I was being swindled! So I decided to look into it! I eventually found a website that had some information about revivals! This websites main focus was azuza street...and it had these audio clips of compilations of different preachers. I listened to most of them! Some of them were very charismatic like the revivals that I was familiar with. But there were a few that were different!

The Revival Hymn! I never heard preaching like that before!! NEVER in my life!! It just cut through all that other garbage! It had teeth! It wasn't this fluffy christianity where everyone is going to heaven! No! This gave me a view of something that was sacred!

It was through men like Leonard Ravenhill I finally heard about the real revivals that had happened and William Booth and the Salvation Army! It drew me in because it was so refreshing to me! Because it was a hard message to hear! So I mainly listened to Leonard Ravenhill, Paris Reidhead, Keith Daniels and Paul Washer! and I believed that what these men preach is truth!

But something has happened to me...I can't explain it... You probably would see me as vile...Because I've listened to what I believe to be the truth! But I fear that I've not yet been truly saved! I've gone backwards! Back to that filth, my sin... I think...I fell into a snare of legalism for a time...You see I've listened to these sermons! I believe them true!! But I was so timid and ignorant of what I thought I knew and believed...that when I finally tried sharing what I had discovered with my parents? They would not accept it! I think they thought I was attacking them or coming down and judging them...and I've tried explaining to them that I was never saved! all this time my so called christian life is false! Because there was no evidence of salvation! There was no fruit! I've even asked them to at least listen to a sermon of Paul Washer! They think he's off his rocker!! They must think that if a preacher like that leaves you questioning your salvation and feeling like you're the wickedest creature on earth...That that can't be a message from God.

I just don't know what to do!! I'm so confused...I'm not sure if I even know any true believers!! My parents will just tell me! You are saved! God loves you! He's not mad at you! We were there when you asked Jesus into your heart, we know you're born again!

But they don't go through scripture to show me! It's all phrases from their church! and I've been to their church and the pastor pretty much just tells stories! he has a few verses here and there and even has what sounds like a gospel message...but he doesn't preach!! His message goes something like this "God is not mad at you! God loves you! God wants to transform your life! You've got so much potential! etc!" and at the end they ask everyone to bow their head and close their eyes! and now repeat this prayer after me!

I've posted this message because I don't know where else to go to seek Godly council and advice! I don't go to church anymore! Because I don't know where to go!! I don't want to be deceived by these well meaning pastors! Dear believers! I need prayer...That this Holy King would soften this wicked heart of mine! that He would lead me to true repentance and true salvation...That I would find true believers...or that they'd find me...

Brother Joshua,

It sounds like your eyes have been opened! Praise God. You will have to pray for your parents and just let them see the new you - Christ in you (and me), that's the hope of glory!

I encourage you to listen to some of Zac Poonen's teachings.

Zac Poonen - [url=http://www.cfcindia.com/web/mainpages/topical_bible_study.php]Topical Bible Studies[/url]

Some topics that come to mind to listen to (when you click on them, they will open to 3 or more sermons):
THE REAL AND THE COUNTERFEIT (19 down from the top)
THE OVERCOMING LIFE (4 down)
NEW COVENANT TRUTHS - New (2 down)
BEING A DISCIPLE - (15 down)

Zac Poonen - [url=http://www.cfcindia.com/web/mainpages/verse_by_verse.php]Verse by Verse Bible Studeis[/url]

He has been studying the Word of God for 40 or more years and he is the most balanced. All the new Christian's I run into, I will make a few CD's for them and his style and explanations of passages really helps them.

***************

Now, to find true believers, I encourage you to pray and ask God where they are. They are scattered through Calgary and it's surrounding areas! The Lord may lead you to drive through the highways and by-ways and finally say, "there, go there for a little while." Who knows how He may lead you?

Actually, I found four of my dearest friends at a type of church your parents think you got saved at! :-o Even though none of us still go to this church, we stayed friends because our common denominator is Jesus - not the church!

Through years of crying and praying for just one godly friend, (this will sound corny but), I found that it's Jesus himself who is that friend that sticketh closer than a brother/sister. :-) Even though, He eventually gave me like 6 close friends, He is the one that I cling to.

Josh, I and many others (on this website) will be praying for you. This truly is the best place for Godly sermons but be careful not to judge your town by these messages on here! LOL You will be sadly disappointed by not finding anyone who preaches/teaches like Zac Poonen, Leonard Ravenhill, Paul Washer, A.W. Tozer, etc.

If you must fast, then fast and pray. Jesus will never steer you wrong.

God bless you,

duplicate because I got an Internal Error page. Sorry.

Dear Joshua,

You may not know it, but your post has so blessed me. There are so many saints that have been and still are being deceived into thinking that they are saved by the simple prayer that they are saved and not know they have truly been born again! My Daughter in law had to finally realize that her own family has members that think they are saved and are not walking with the Lord. She is diligently praying for them to have their eyes opened and to truly repent and be born again.

There has been great conflict. When we began listening to Paul Washer, Ravenhill, Katz, and Wilkerson, the eyes of our understanding were enlightened as yours were and we realized we had been receiving a false gospel.

Dear Brother, you are so not alone and God Himself will bring you safely to the knowledge of your salvation and you will be guided to others that are like minded. They will be very meek and humble, and most definitely in the background and unnoticed. They will hunger to talk about Jesus and encourage you in the overcoming of sin through Jesus and His ability to deliver you.

Above all, read the Word of God and pray much. It is your communion with the Father and the quiet of prayer where you hear the voice of the Lord.

Desire this with all you heart and you will be able to recognize the move oF God in your life. You will note that the scriptures declare that He came to bring not to bring peace, but a sword. In a sense, I guess it is the desire to please God and not even our own families. Pray for them and set the example. His sheep hear his voice and know him and no other voice will they follow because they know not the voice of strangers.

Even if you must dwell in a wilderness place for a season, I know the Lord will carry you through and there are wonderful saints here that will pray for you and give you godly council.

May the Lord guide and direct you Joshua.

Kathleen

Joshhh,

I can identify with your struggle. The thoughts I want to share are based on my personal experience and the beliefs I have regarding them.

There is the aspect of the 'sower' that I believe is pertinent. When a seed is sown into our lives, regardless of the ground it falls on, we have an enemy that desires to snatch it away.

I will jump to the solution and then do a little fill in. Jesus said, 'If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink'. The key to overcoming satan's attempts to decieve and distract, is to allow God more and more opportunity to sow more and more seeds.

It will always boil down to this, God will sow a seed, whether it is the initial seed He sows that results in our accepting Him as our savior, or subsequent seeds He sows with the intent of being Lord of your life, satan will always try to counter the seed that is sown. He will twist the truth of it. He has been doing that from the beginning. That has never changed.

The only good way to combat that, and I use the word 'combat' for a reason (we are in a battle, it is just that simple, and until we realize it and approach this Christian walk from that mindset, we are destined to flounder around at the mercy of satan who has his way with us (and believe me there is not much mercy there)).

Coming to God regularly to drink from His well is the regular fortifying we need to identify satan's attempt to subvert us. When satan tries to twist the truth, if we have little of it in us, we are easy targets. On the other hand, if we are filled, he has more difficulty getting to us.

For what it is worth, I agree with your parents. I believe you are saved and I know for a fact God loves you. Maybe this perspective will help you understand that your struggles are not a result of not being saved, but because you are, your enemy is doing all to prevent you from knowing the love God has for you.

I close with a verse I just closed with on another thread. Ephesians 3:17-19 'I pray that you, being rooted and esablished in love, may have the power, together with all the saints, to know how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know the love that surpasses knowledge - that you may be filled with the measure of the fullness of God.'

I'll be praying for you.

Joshhh,
Great to hear your testimony. It sounds so much like mine - I grew up going to traditional, large, political "First-Baptist" churches. One day I experienced a Pentecostal campmeeting/revival with all the flash and flare you'd expect to see. For a season, I feel the Lord used these services to let me know as a teenager that there was more to being a Christian than the stereotype I'd always seen in my churches (grouchy older people who bickered and fought over what food was to be served at the fellowship meetings on Wednesday nights). I turned my heart to following after these "revivals", such as what was happening in Brownsville or Toronto. By the time I was out of college I had come to realize there was something amiss about this whole "revival" mentality and I too became burn-out on the concept. I was tired of seeing people seeking experiences and signs, but having no genuine and passionate holiness in their lives and the biblical teaching that accompanies these "revivals" was usually shallow and often unorthodox at best. Since then, I've come to see (and experience) that God does come down to move among His people in the power of revival, but it's much different and so much more powerful than what I used to think "revival" constituted.

Long story short, I can remember being in a very similar position as yourself. I want to encourage you in a few things:
1. The fact that you are wrestling with whether or not you've ever been "saved" is not a bad thing, but a wonderful sign that God is either your Lord or is drawing you with a discontented heart towards truly knowing Him. Someone in whom the Spirit is not moving is likely to believe themselves safe and doesn't want to even look into the issue.
2. I do believe this time of dispair is only for a season, this too shall pass. Remember Elijah in the wilderness after he had had the great victory on Mt. Carmel. He was so distraught that he hoped he might even die, believing that there was noone else that walked after God, that he alone was left - but the Lord told him of the thousands of remnant people who still served Him and that he was not alone. I believe this time in the wilderness is serving to strength you and mature you in ways you'll probably only recognize in retrospect.
3. It sounds like the Lord is dealing with your heart on aspects of your lifestyle. Don't reason through what He is tell you to do, just do it. Are there friends or relationships in your life that constantly cause you to stumble...then disassociate yourself from them. Is the television or internet a constant stumbling block in your life...then "cut it off and cast it from you." Is the Lord drawing you to start getting up earlier and spending time in His presense...then do what you must to get up earlier and spend time with Him. Just listen to what He is convicting you about and act on it. You'll be blown away by the power of obedience to the Holy Spirit.
4. You CAN find Godly fellowship and council and this is a great forum to start with. I encourage you to get involved in posting and talking with others on this site, you'll find that there are many from whom you can be encouraged. Ideally, and in time, the Lord will lead you to some local believers that you can become involved with and can worship and learn from. They're closer than you think, just begin seeking the Lord diligently on this issue.

God bless you Joshhh, and I hope to see your name popping up more and more in these threads. I'll be praying for you as the Lord leads you through this Valley of the Shadow of Death.

Joshua, when I realized that something was wrong with my Christianity, that it didn't compare with the Early Church, I started praying fervently to God to show me what was wrong. I prayed like Bartimaeus, " Jesus of Nazareth, have mercy on me." And like that blind man, I continued praying and crying louder, that same prayer. This went on for weeks.

The problem was, I thought I was good! When God started showing me the truth, I got angry, and said a very stupid thing. "Well, God, what's so bad about me?" Very stupid, but so great, because then God showed me through various happenings over the next few weeks. The final revealing showed me something inside me I never knew was there, murder.

That night, there was a revival going on at our church. I didn't hear a word the preacher said. My heart was so broken from the happening that day, that when the altar call was given I fell to my knees and cried out to God. " God, I don't know where that came from, and I don't want it. Please give me the love of Jesus in my life."

That moment I was born again. No matter that I had gone to church for years, taught sunday school, spoke in tongues, the whole nine yards, I had never been saved.

Joshua, cry out to God. He will answer. I will be praying for you, Brother.

"He came to Me."
The Gulf that seperated me from Christ my Lord.
Was so Vast the Crossing I could never go.
From where I was, to His Domain, it seemed so far.
I cried, "Dear Lord," I cannot come to where you are.

He came to me,
He came to me.
When I could not go to where He was, He came to me.
That's why He died, On Calvary's Tree,
When I could not go to where He was, He came to me.

He loves you.
He will bring you through, Victorious!

By the Blood of Lamb we will all make it through.

Jesus is the only One who will never fail you.

God Bless you.
Nellie

Hi Josh,

Jesus said these words:"Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they shall be filled." (Matthew 5:6).

God is drawing you to Himself. Believe it or not, you are in a good place. He works through the crises that we go through.

God's ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not our thoughts.

Continue to seek the Lord with all of your heart, and you shall find Him.

Mike

josh,

it seems that many have already offered some good council and encouragement.

i just want to add that the first time i heard the "shocking" message by paul washer, i was in the same place you are at now. i thought i wasn't saved (i do not blame this ambiguity on brother paul). as my wife reminded me of the fruit that is evident in my life (how we know we are saved) i realized i was saved.

regeneration is a hard thing to tackle. i would encourage you to realize your attitude toward sin. if you become more sensitive to your sinfullness, i would say that is a strong indication of having a regenerate heart.

pray for your family. truth is a hard pill to swallow.

be blessed,
-Ben

Josh,

I've posted this message because I don't know where else to go to seek Godly council and advice! I don't go to church anymore! Because I don't know where to go!! I don't want to be deceived by these well meaning pastors!

Unfortunately, this is the unintended consequence of well meaning revivalists and well meaning repentance preachers; people that get confused and now don't know what to do. You are probably suffering from [i]sermon overload[/i].

You also write: [i]So I mainly listened to Leonard Ravenhill, Paris Reidhead, Keith Daniels and Paul Washer! and I believed that what these men preach is truth![/i] You also mentioned that your family had preached and you were somewhat exposed to Charismatic type ministry. And yet you are still in the throws of sin and looking for answers.

The reality is none of those movements or men can save you. Listening to these men may carry a certain element of help, but the issue is [u]your right response to God[/u]. When you sense that God is tugging at your heart- just respond to Him. Do what you feel you need to in your heart. It is that simple. The Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit. God can do more in 10 minutes that all the preachers in the world can do in their lifetime. The issue is never who is preaching, it is [i]what is God saying to my heart?[/i]

I would shut out all of the voices that you are flooding your mind with and seek God through His word. Take a break and just simplify things. If God puts His finger on something (not Ravenhill, Washer, Daniel's or Reidhead), but the Holy Spirit. If HE is putting His finger on something- by all means deal with it. People will overload you with all sorts of their convictions until you are as confused as a termite in a yo-yo.

Go back to STEP 1. Respond to Him and allow Him to lead you into His way. Let Him apply His word to your heart and life. This is the job of the Holy Spirit. You do not need these other men. Sometimes they are helpful and sometimes they are not. The word as applied by the Holy Spirit to an open and sincere heart will produce a godly character.

RobertW wrote:
You are probably suffering from [i]sermon overload.[/i]

God can do more in 10 minutes that all the preachers in the world can do in their lifetime.

[b]Go back to STEP 1.

Good advice to follow, Josh.

Good advice here, Josh.
God Bless
Nellie

Paulmcg1,

I cannot seem to click away from your post. I've read it a couple of times. I sit here praying for words that might make difference and yet wonder, as you evidently are a regular here, what words that could possibly be.

Based on what you have said, I have no idea of your background with God. There is obviously some, but as of now you seem to be dead unto God. You mention that you cannot read the Bible but long to be able to and unfortunately these two things just build on each other. The more you do not read the Bible, the more dead to God you will become and the more dead to God you become, the more you will not want to read the Bible.

Since you are a regular here, you may have seen this quote by D.L. Moody; 'This book will keep you from sin. Sin will keep you from this book'.

I'm going to try and weave in my opinions with truth that comes from the Bible. In the end I think I will recommend, as a place to start, that you read the short book that I will be referring to.

You are really no different that any of us. As you apparently are still dead in sin, so were all of us at one time. But just as for many of us, we can refer to that in past tense, you have that very same opportunity. It is nothing more than a choice. You have made yours, we have made ours and we all do it daily. There are no short cuts or magic wands.

Eph 2 begins this way, 'As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. But because of His great love for us, God who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions...

Paul goes on to say in Eph 4, 'So I tell you this, and insist it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more'.

And finally he says in Eph 5, 'For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light... and find out what pleases the Lord'.

Paul is writing to Christians here and if they were not still struggling with the issue, he would not be reminding them to 'no longer live as the Gentiles do'. It is a choice that all of us must make.

Paul mentions that it is 'because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive in Christ even when we were dead in transgressions'. That is not to say, as it seems you might be hoping for, that God would just come down and zap you into another heart. We have to make a choice. We have to decide we want God more than we want the world. Once we make that choice, God will be there. (of course satan will be too to slow us down, but still in spite of all opposition, we must make a choice - there is no easy road)

Hudson Taylor put it this way, 'God does not give us overcoming lives; He gives life to those who overcome'. So much of it is on us to make proper choices. As right choices lead to life, wrong choices lead to death.

You have the same opportunity as many of us who now can say, 'we were dead to God'. It begins with a choice, a first step.

I think that first step, if you really want God as you say you do, is to confess to Him the fact that you are dead in your sin and on the heals of that confess your desire to be made alive to Him. Ask Him for His help and then to prove you want it, open His word and ask that He speak to you through it. (I would recommend you start with the book of Ephesians then maybe Matthew or John) Before you begin reading, as God to speak to you through it. Ask Him to open your eyes that you might behold His wondrous truths. Your longing to read it will soon turn in to a reality. It is your choice. It is that plain and simple.

I do not put all this here arrogantly. It is strong stuff, but then it is serious business. It is different than what I said to Josh. I felt your situations were different. I will be praying for you (and I am not just saying that). I will pray that He speaks to you and that in the process, you 'find out what pleases the Lord'.

Josh,

It would be nice to hear from you before we just go on and on and on.

Mike

It would seem that in the first few pages of The Pilgrim's Progress...My very life is being narrated. The very first thing that Pilgrim/Christian says is "What shall I do?"

If my eyes have truly been opened? Would it be safe to say that this is where the pilgrim's progress begins? Although, falling into the slough of despond, of course...If so? Then I still have this great burden on my back.

I'm afraid for my family...because they don't seem to think that they're being deceived. It's not even a matter of me being right and them being wrong. As far as I go? I know nothing! Except what has been revealed to me by God's grace and His Spirit...which even to me now, in my state is still so foreign...but it's a matter of just stopping! Stop and think for a second about what you believe! Examine the evidence! Examine yourself! Compare it to scripture...Is this "gospel" your believing? Is it really the gospel.

I'm afraid because I do not see this happening...It seems as if they're fine with just blindly following their pastor even if he's wrong...It's fearful to see what is happening...and I'm not suggesting to blindly follow just anyone! even those that speak the truth. They should be held accountable by scripture. and that should be a fearful thing! But I don't see any fear or trembling evident, even among their pastor...This terrifies me...

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I also just need to say that I'm so grateful to everyone who responded to my crying out. If my eyes have been opened...then for a time I foolishly fumbled and went the way of my flesh...I fell into that slough of despond. I would that this King would keep me low...and in humility. Thank you, thank you! For praying for me.

Joshhh wrote:
I'm afraid for my family...because they don't seem to think that they're being deceived. It's not even a matter of me being right and them being wrong. As far as I go? I know nothing! Except what has been revealed to me by God's grace and His Spirit...which even to me now, in my state is still so foreign...but it's a matter of just stopping! Stop and think for a second about what you believe! Examine the evidence! Examine yourself! Compare it to scripture...Is this "gospel" your believing? Is it really the gospel.

I'm afraid because I do not see this happening...It seems as if they're fine with just blindly following their pastor even if he's wrong...It's fearful to see what is happening...This terrifies me...

I pray you learn to walk in spirit of trust with Christ, that you need not fear for your parents. God has shown you HIS glorious light, perhaps He couldn't get light to your parents so He chose your life to shine into their's.

Rejoice that if He showed you the light, that He loves them every bit as much as He loves you and He will bring them to Him but you must live this new found freedom before them. You are a new creature in Christ, they will not be able to ignore that your walk has changed, your talked has changed, that there is definitely something different FOR THE GOOD about you.

I believe a little differently than some here, I believe we do not need to always be verbally telling people they are walking wrong or being decieved. That is all people do is yak yak yak about what they believe. There's way too much talking and not enough humbly walking out our faith in front of them.

I believe that if we walk in love with Christ, though they be blind, they will still SEE HIM! Brother, fear not!

God loves you and He loves your parents. Shine on in Jesus' name! Jesus said, "[i]Pray in secret and you will be rewarded openly[/i]."

Paulmcg1 Quote:

The biggest thing in my life is I feel like I'm going to hell all the time and I hate living because of it. The Bible...that's a whole other story. I can't even read it...It's like I hate reading it and I long to read it. That's the best way to describe it. Prayer, well....what's prayer again?

Please read the post that I forwarded entitled "A Sure Salvation" by Watchman Nee. The Word of God says that "In whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of those that believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God should should shine unto them." (2Cor.4:4). If the enemy cannot keep us from believing the gospel, he will attempt to deceive us into thinking that we were never saved. The gospel of Jesus Christ is good news to sinners. You can have assurance of salvation.

Mike

Is this "gospel" your believing? Is it really the gospel.

It is interesting to me how the conversion experiences in the Book of Acts were brought about by a fairly simple message of the cross and resurrection. Today, because of many revivalists and repentance preachers (I include myself in that mix), we think we have to give an exposition on the Book of Romans in order for people to be saved. I really think this is a great hindrance more than an asset.

One of the reasons why this is is because the supernatural operation of the Holy Spirit is not appreciated. We cannot give lip service to the Holy Spirit and then try to perform the work with fearful doctrines and messages. One cannot 'doctrinally' be Born Again- they must respond to the Holy Spirit in faith as He is drawing them.

Yesterday I spent the day asking myself a vital question that I'm having a hard time reckoning with. Have I personally ever witnessed [u]anyone[/u] come to Christ and [u]remain[/u] in Christ by the preaching of a fearful repentance message. As of this morning, I still cannot think of a single person I know that came to Christ and has stayed trusting in Christ through this method. Understand that I have been in ministry with many well known names on this site and I still can't think of a single person.

So the issue at hand is not as it appears. We know that people need to be genuinely born again; but what does that mean? There are whole sects that will preach that and turn right around and undermine the operation of the Holy Spirit. I was in a large repentance gathering once where multiple denominations were present and when we got there we found out that we could not preach anything on the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. That is like taking an unloaded gun to a shootout.

So there is little wonder when there is so much caution presented about receiving the Holy Spirit why so few are truly Born Again. Being Born Again does not mean I turn into an ascetic, legalistic form of restraint living. It is the life of God manifest as I yield myself to Him without preconditions. Truly, and I have said this before, if one were to add the sum of how the Gospel is preached by most speakers here on SI together, along with their own individual quirks and preconditions, you would not have enough Gospel left to get the job done.