Repentance preaching

RobertW wrote:

Yesterday I spent the day asking myself a vital question that I'm having a hard time reckoning with. Have I personally ever witnessed anyone come to Christ and remain in Christ by the preaching of a fearful repentance message. As of this morning, I still cannot think of a single person I know that came to Christ and has stayed trusting in Christ through this method. Understand that I have been in ministry with many well known names on this site and I still can't think of a single person.

RobertW,

Having read your references to this thought a few times lately, I thought it could be a good discusion, provided it does not get sidetracked.

I don't have a lot of time right now, but I'll throw out a couple of thoughts for starters.

We must all repent, but when we do, we are then toward God. Once we are toward God, the emphasis then is to come closer to Him.

It is likely that there will be subsequent needs of repentence, but only to the extent that we do not come as close to Him as we should. The more we come to Him the less need for subsequent repentance. Conversely, the less we come, the more need.

A steady dose of repentence preaching seems like repeating step 1 over and over, when there should be more emphasis on moving on to step 2, 3 and 4. Step 1 gets us started. Steps 2, 3 and 4 keep us going.

My thoughts in nutshell version.

One year I ministered for an entire year on repentance. It's the only message I heard in 2004. And repentance is truly necessary.

I did a little post on Finney's conversion and also mentioned Wesley's. It is interesting to me that these men did not come to God as a result of heavy handed repentance preaching, but as God dealt with them in their hearts and they saw by revelation the truth of the Gospel and responded.

I also read of [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=19496]George Whitefield's Conversion Experience[/url] in which after some time of God dealing he simply fell on the bed and cried out with a dry mouth, "I thirst! I thirst!". DL Moody was saved in a shoe store as I understand it.

I may be missing it, but it seems to me that the Gospel as presented as 'good' news tends to yield conversions, but when folk are told to turn now or face hell- there are very few converted. In fact, I have been in situations when it seemed sorely solemn- week after week and month after month and yet very few took any step toward God.

So there has to come that day of visitation- that point in which God has been dealing with the person to turn to Him and they turn. It seems to matter little what means of grace is employed, only that the person comes to that point of decision. It could be in the shoe store, the woods or a formal setting.

Edwards sermons on grace, the excellencies of Christ and Gods undeserved mercy are only rivaled by his sermons on the just damnation of sinners and the terrors of an eternal hell. These really should work as one in the same message though. Repentance preaching in the proper spirit should cause the sinner to greater esteem the precious blood of Christ upon hearing of Gods great love for such wretched, miserable, monstrous, hell deserving sinners.

I have found in my limited experience that people turn to God in a sense from this type preaching, but I 'personally' have not seen the conversions last. It may be good for an altar call, but then there is an ongoing need to keep preaching repentance week after week after week.

So what I'm really driving at is, I'm not convinced that folk lastingly come to God until they respond to the revelation of God working in their life on a very personal level. It seems to me that we need to preach in such a way that folk can 'begin in the Spirit' as did the saints at Galatia. I have often been taken by how folk seem to temporarily 'turn', but it is rarely enough for them to come into a self-sustaining Christian life. By self-sustaining I mean one that will of their [u]own[/u] volition work out their salvation with fear and trembling.

I don't believe that there is a certain method that will work to save people. What works is when the Sprit of God is dealing with the one that you are speaking to, and you are not just speaking the right words, but there is an anointing on the word that is being delivered.

It is the Holy Spirit that convicts men, and regenerates them. It is not our methods or just mouthing the right scriptures.

The Word says "And some save by fire". There are some people that will respond to this, but not all.

There are a lot of different fish out there, and God knows the right bait to use to catch them with.

Mike

There are a lot of different fish out there, and God knows the right bait to use to catch them with.

I think of the passage:

[color=000066]And of some have compassion, making a difference: (Jude)[/color]

It does seem that the Holy Spirit wants to meet people right where they are. I also recall the purpose of Christ's anointing:

[color=000066] The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. (Luke 4)[/color]

I hear in this passage a willingness to deliver from bondage to sin and heal the brokenhearted. There is a tenderness here that really challenges me.

I have found in my limited experience that people turn to God in a sense from this type preaching, but I 'personally' have not seen the conversions last. It may be good for an altar call, but then there is an ongoing need to keep preaching repentance week after week after week.

I personally have experienced the opposite.

I had heard that Jesus loved me all my life. I never thought twice about Him giving His Son for me. I never needed it. It wasn’t till years later when the reality of hell and the understanding that I deserved it came upon me that I was broken by His love.

A lack of hell, damnation, and repentance preaching provides no understanding of price paid. No understanding of divine justice. Folks I see don’t view themselves as deserving or having ever been deserving of anything but love because they are basically good people.

There is a balance. Hell, eternal damnation, repentance, mercy, grace and love must all be preached.

In order to be saved, doesn’t one need to be convinced of their need of a savior?

It is the Holy Spirit that convicts men, and regenerates them. It is not our methods or just mouthing the right scriptures.

Amen. Preach it all, all the time.

In order to be saved, doesn’t one need to be convinced of their need of a savior?

To clarify as we peel back the layers here, I believe there needs to be more than a simple understanding of our guilt before God and that we deserved hell, etc.. We need to see the reality of it by [i]revelation[/i]. We need to see by revelation our awesomely dreadful condition and God's unspeakable love in His answer to our condition. We need to know by revelation that He desires to put away our Sin and sins and reconcile with us.

What I am really driving at is that repentance preaching typically focuses on the fact that we deserve hell and on that basis seeks to secure the repentance of a sinner. I am not convinced that this is sufficient. Many people I know, if we went through a series of questions, would be forced to admit they are sinners destined for hell; but those same people have not repented after hearing about hell their whole life. They have likewise heard that God loved them their whole life.

Many people know to some degree or another that they are sinners and deserve hell. Here in the so-called Bible Belt, you will find that people age 35 and up typically understand they are sinners. But there has to be a point in time in the person's life when they [i]respond[/i] to the drawing of the Holy Spirit. I think of the life of Abraham:

[color=000066]And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran,

And said unto him, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and come into the land which I shall shew thee.

Then came he out of the land of the Chaldaeans, and dwelt in Charran: and from thence, when his father was dead, he removed him into this land, wherein ye now dwell. (Acts 7)[/color]

This is Steven's sermon that we all know ends with him assuring them saying, [color=000066]Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. [/color] He began the sermon with Abraham yielding to God and ended with the unbelieving Jews resisting the Holy Ghost. That is an amazing contrast.

Yet there are some people that need to know that God can and will deliver them from their sin. Some are in severe bondage. Others have not yet reached a place where they are ready and willing to respond rightly to God. Abraham did not serve God because of a fear of hell, even though he knew that God was the Judge of all the Earth. He seemed to walk with God and love God almost independent of that fear. The focus of their relationship was on the [i]present circumstances[/i] with a view of eternity.

The last few months have been a real time of reflection for me. But I am seeing one thing for certain, the last 5 years of my life have been seemingly relatively unfruitful years. I feel that God is showing me that their must be a deep heart of compassion for people and that includes sinners in my life. Not a lip-service. Not a 'they all deserve hell' attitude. But a deep compassion for people that springs from the love of God. I have to ask myself if my zeal to secure a sinners repentance had been tempered more with good fruits (as James says), others may have been saved.

RobertW wrote:
I have found in my limited experience that people turn to God in a sense from this type preaching, but I 'personally' have not seen the conversions last. It may be good for an altar call, but then there is an ongoing need to keep preaching repentance week after week after week.

So what I'm really driving at is, I'm not convinced that folk lastingly come to God until they respond to the revelation of God working in their life on a very personal level. It seems to me that we need to preach in such a way that folk can 'begin in the Spirit' as did the saints at Galatia. I have often been taken by how folk seem to temporarily 'turn', but it is rarely enough for them to come into a self-sustaining Christian life. By self-sustaining I mean one that will of their [u]own[/u] volition work out their salvation with fear and trembling.

I am one of those that RobertW speaks of. Under repentance preaching, if I went to the altar once, I went 50 times and most of the times by the next day the fear would wear off (is the only way I know how to say it).

When I heard a message by the "Spirit," I gave my mind, body, heart, and soul to Christ. What I heard was from the Father's heart to me that day and since.

Again, "MY" experience has shown me that the difference (take it or leave it, for what it's worth), is that a true father doesn't need to beat their child into submittance by fear but understands how the Spirit operates and so leads and feeds the children.

[If you find fault with my description, then blame my lack of english and grammar skills to convey what took place that day. Do not blame God.) I personally believe the Church of Jesus Christ needs more men presenting the wonderful Gospel of Jesus Christ with the Father's heart.

I don't believe that there is a certain method that will work to save people. What works is when the Sprit of God is dealing with the one that you are speaking to, and you are not just speaking the right words, but there is an anointing on the word that is being delivered.

I think this is well said Mike. The crucial element in winning souls to Christ is the working of the Holy Spirit. One thing that does strike me though is that in the presence of a Holy God our own un-holiness becomes very apparent and this is why I think that repentance is extremely important.
In regards to preaching a 'good news' message then I would kinda put that in the same league as 'Repentance' preaching since surely the good news is freedom from sin and hell through the sacrifice of Jesus and unless it is revealed to a person that they are filthy sinners they will fail to see what the good news is. Most people are unaware that they need saving.
If we look at the old revivals, particularly Lewis then we see that as the Spirit of God moved amongst the people a great awareness of ones own sin and wretchedness came.

I can certainly appreciate your question though brother. Personnally my opinion is that Repentance preaching is extremely effective but that sadly many many people who preach this to people fail to lay hold of two things which are very much interwoven. These two are firstly the Holy Spirit and secondly compassion for the lost. We need to see more repentance preaching but only from those preachers who have been praying without ceasing being guided by the Holy Spirit and who are preaching with tears in their eyes.

Hey Robert,

Seems like you're picking up some golden lessons. Peter's epistles talk of never forgetting what we have been saved from so that we treat others with respect.

I have been relating to a guy for about 6 months now who is an ex morphine addict and me and my pastor have been sharing similar stuff about repentance but he always seems to be evasive.

This weekend just passed he came to the ministry of a guy who was visiting from China and i heard him hmm and nod in agreement through the message which empasised repentance. He has since complemented me on my persistance and "purity of vision" I am praying he will come to know the fullness of Christ.

I remember one thing that my pastor commented on as worthy was "giving people room to change". Paul's letters to Timothy emphasise this 2 Timothy 2:24-26 "and a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will gran them repentance, so they may know the truth, and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will."

In practical terms as well. Other good topics to raise with people are:
- assurance of salvation,
- what to you have faith in God to do?

These can be open doors to see where people are at and lead you share repentance AND faith in Christ to them.

Hope some of this is helpful.

God bless,

Mikey

I hate it when that happens. I had just about finished my post when I hit a wrong button and lost it.

Now briefly, as I do not have the time nor energy to recreate everything I had written, I first will say how refreshing to see so many good consecutive posts.

When I think of the term repentance preaching, the first thought that usually comes to mind is the 'turn or burn' type. But after reading all these posts, I see that it can actually also be about the love of God. Both messages can cause the effect of repentance.

One said they had heard of the love of God all their life, another said they had responded to repentance messages all the time and both with little effect. Each needed a different message and God in His wisdom and being given to variety, obliges us with both messages.

So I now, as a result of our conversation here, I see repentance preaching differently. Still I see it, regardless of the means, as step 1 that should lead to steps 2,3 and 4. Step 1 gets us facing toward God; 2,3 and 4 are the steps that keep us, not only facing Him, but draw us closer to Him.

To clarify as we peel back the layers here, I believe there needs to be more than a simple understanding of our guilt before God and that we deserved hell, etc.. We need to see the reality of it by revelation. We need to see by revelation our awesomely dreadful condition and God's unspeakable love in His answer to our condition. We need to know by revelation that He desires to put away our Sin and sins and reconcile with us.

Amen. It should be our goal to live in a way that creates a desire in others. To manifest Christ's love in a way that is 'real'.

Many people know to some degree or another that they are sinners and deserve hell. Here in the so-called Bible Belt, you will find that people age 35 and up typically understand they are sinners.

I believe that they have heard it for so long and from so many sources that they say it...concede in speech. But I am not convinced they 'know' it at all. You are right, it must become reality.

I feel that God is showing me that their must be a deep heart of compassion for people and that includes sinners in my life. Not a lip-service. Not a 'they all deserve hell' attitude.

Amen. For me it's not a 'they all', it's a 'we all' that motivates. This only happened in the last year or so. It's by His grace I am saved. I am no better than the most vile sinner on earth. I am simply forgiven. Very humbling. This is the reality I want to show/teach others.

I grew up attending a Nazarene ‘holiness’ church. ‘Turn or burn” was all I heard coming from a bunch of ‘sinless’ people. What a mess. God is still working to release me from many harmful and destructive theological errors.

God bless you Robert. I hear your heart. I understand what you are saying.
I am simply being my ‘clear as mud” self.

Thank you brothers for the excellent contributions that you have made to this thread.

What do the following scriptures say to us in regards to salvation?

The gospel is the same message to sinners, but people are different. This is why when we attempt to use any one method, many will slip through the net.

When I minister in the prisons, I know that it is impossible to prepare a message to reach every man. That is why I ask the Holy Spirit to bring to my remembrance the scriptures, and Words that will reach every man's heart. He knows what needs to be said, we don't.

"For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.\t
And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;\t
To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.\t
To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some." (1 Corinthians 9: 19-22).

Mike

Thank you brothers for the excellent contributions that you have made to this thread.

Amen. Lots of good stuff here.

It seems to me that many of us are constantly examining the content of our preaching to understand why we are seeing so few people truly come into a [i]viable[/i] relationship with Christ. It seems to me that we are not seeing folk regenerated like we should.

I also have seen people repent 50X or more and still they don't seem to 'connect' (as it were) with God. I typically believed that this is because the person is resisting the Holy Ghost in what He is putting His finger on. Sometimes it seems that I have ministered and folk 'turn' but then turn back. I then assume it is because they did not come into 'godly sorrow'.

For me, I turned to Christ as God had already been dealing with me for some time. I came to service on an easter Sunday. My life was an absolute train wreck. It was very complicated. There were no cut and dry solutions. There were some catch 22 scenerios. I knew this when I came to God. I knew that I would not be able to unscramble the scrambled eggs (so to speak). Repentance for me was simply turning and surrendering to God and His will for me. The problem was, I did not know what direction to go. It took about 10 months of madness and searching to finally reckon with where I was and what I was going to do [i]going forward[/i]. I wanted to do what was right and to please God.

So in a sense I am also saying that we need a Gospel that allows God to be God in the life of the person. It is so easy to back seat drive on the Holy Ghost. It is also easy to be a stumbling block in some people coming to Christ because they already feel they are in an impossible situation. A 'heck if you do' and a 'heck if you don't' type thing (if you will pardon the expression). I knew I could not repent enough to suit certain of the holiness folk in my family. As far as many are concerned, I still have not repented 'enough'. But it is as far as I can go. I have balanced the scriptures out in my life as best as I can. So here I am. Take me or leave me (type thing) because I can do no other.

There are people in prison with these types of situations. Their lives are complicated. Sin in our times has ravaged peoples lives until it seems like they can never be in a situation where they have dotted all of the 'i's' and crossed all the 't's'. That is where my life was and that is where God has brought me from. I turned to Him when I had a revelation of the [i]cross[/i] and how He died for [u]my[/u] sins. I knew I could not fix everything- but I also knew, that because of Calvary I didn't have to.

Another important factor in the salvation of sinners is prayer. When we pray for people to be saved the Holy Spirit will prepare the ground in their lives to receive the incorruptable seed. The Lord will arrange the circumstances in their lives to get them to the place where the gospel will indeed be good news to them. I have seen this so often in the prisons. I have ministered to men in the prisons that were in solitary confinement that were so broken. Even before I arrived the Lord had been dealing with them.

Mike