Protecting Our Property (and please pray)

I have a close friend who owns his own business. A few months ago he began having thieves and vandals break in and damage and steal property from him. My friend is a great guy, he is a believer and spent much of the past decade in Mexico working in full-time missions work. My friend is also an avid hunter who owns many guns and has a consealed-weapons permit.

When people began breaking into his business (a manufacturing facility) he started spending the nights at his company in hopes of catching or scaring the perpetrators. Well, after just a few nights he did just that. Being aware that someone was breaking in, he first called the police from his cell phone to report the burglary, then he made a citizens arrest by pulling his gun on the intruder and had him lie on the floor with his hands behind his head until the police arrived and took him to jail. My friend made the front pages of the paper and was very excited that he had thwarted the robbery and had protected his property.

Now, this past week, my friends business was being broken into again. So, (since it worked the first time) he began last night staying at the warehouse again. Things turned out differently this time though. From what we know, my friend was again alerted to someone breaking in, so he called 911 to report the burglary and, while still on the phone with 911, he had an encounter with the perpetrator(s). The police won't give out much information to the family, but apparently the 911 operator heard someone yelling at him to "put your hands up", then they heard a shot fired. When the police arrived they found my friend had been shot in the head.

Currently, he is in critical condition and "not expected to make it". In my opinion, its already a miracle that he initially survived being shot in the head at close range. So, I would first of all like those who read this to be praying for him and his family (he has a wife, 2 sons and 4 grandchildren). His name is Jeff.

Secondly, I would like to pose the question, as its been an issue that I've talked to many people about in recent months (including Jeff): To what extent should we go to protect our property and our family? Perhaps Jeff would not have been shot if he himself did not have a gun (perhaps he would have anyways)? He certainly would not have been shot if he had not put himself in such a situation. But what was he to do...allow people to continue vandalizing and stealing from his company? Or was he right to do what he could to protect his livelihood?

With many people in America getting more and more desperate due to the declining financial situation, I would say that "break-ins" might be on the rise in many places. Should we go to arms to protect ourselves? Or should we submit to God and trust that He is sovereign and can/will stop such people from harming us and our property? These have been questions that I've been mulling over for some time on a personal level, today's events only bring it much closer to home. After all, Jeff and I had this conversation not too long ago, perhaps I should have been more persuasive one way or another.

graceamazed,

I am very sorry about your friend Jeff and I will be praying for him & his family.

As to your question about protecting our families & property, I would personally do whatever it take to protect my family. My property is different. I wouldn't risk a lot to protect it.

Maybe Jeff wasn't wrong it protecting his business, but errored in his method. How did the thief(s) find him without him seeing the thief(s) coming? Maybe he should have locked himself in a room, called the police & allow them to engage the thief(s).

Anyway, I'll be praying.

i will pray for jeff and his family.

i agree that this is a difficult question. for family, i would be willing to die. property is different, but it is a shame that others would feel it is ok to enter into private property and try to take something that is not theirs.

Praise God he knows the Lord as Savior!

Our prayers are with all of you, Grace Amazed. I have wrestled with this as well. Once, we had a scary situation happen at our store, and I'm sure they were going to rob us. I knew it, felt it, and kicked myself for being unarmed and not able to protect myself or my wife. But they (3 men) stood around then left. Now I am armed.

One thing I know, and was taught by my first concealed carry instructor, is if you're unsure of taking a human life, then do not carry a gun. Indecision will cost you. It may have happened with Jeff, or it's a good chance Jeff was surprised by a second gunman. May God restore him to his family and friends. Don

Well, its 9:45 here in Tennessee and Jeff is still alive, but has not improved. It appears that there was a second gun man, as we've found out he had already apprehended one man before he called the police and while he was on the phone it appears someone else came up behind him. Still no arrests have been made.

As for the question of "to arms or not to arms"... I'm sure this is a bit of a subjective question and will vary from individual to individual. I personally have a revolver in the top of my closet (I own 3 bullets to the gun and have never fired it). My hand gun was passed down to me after my grandfather died, otherwise, I probably wouldn't have one. About three months ago there were a couple of houses in our neighborhood that were broken into. Having this in mind, I was wrestling with whether or not I would use the gun should something happen. Within the week my wife and I were both awakened by a loud noise that sounded like it came from our walk-out basement (the obvious place I would think someone would try entering our house). Two things happened immediately, first, I was gripped by a sense of fear (which isn't very common for me) and second, my trust was fully set on getting to my revolver and its three bullets. There was no peace, no call on the Lord, no sense of a Psalm 23 safety, just a full dependence on the safety that my little pistol could bring me. Turns out, no one was in the house, no doors or windows had been messed with and I have no explanation for the noise. I think the Lord might have just caused us to be in that situation to reveal to us what our hope was placed in.

I wrestled with God for most of the next day, until I finally came to the resolution that I would not use my gun, even if I thought someone was in the house. What did I do, I started praying more for the safety of my family and I started making a conscious effort to put my sense of security in the Lord. I'm trusting that He is sovereign and able to frustrate the plans of those who would seek to harm me. I'm not saying this is "the more excellent way", but it was the conclusion that brought me peace.

GraceAmazed, I'll be praying for everyone involved and notifying others to do the same.

Here is a thread which follows a similar theme, and may lend some insight.

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=24335&forum=44&post_id=&refresh=Go]I got jumped and robbed[/url]

Blessings in the grace of Christ.

*edit*

glitch.

Hi brother, keep us updated on Jeff, will you?

My prayers ...

Honestly, wrestling with your questions I am so very reluctant and find really no good answer to all of this ... if I could just think out loud, think along with you here ...

It seems that each of has to decide many of these matters for ourselves, independent ultimately even if we take in a variety of opinion to draw our 'conclusions'. That seems a bit too obvious ...

This is now one of those 'what if' situations in reverse - Now it's in hindsight rather than foresight. And I am often troubled by these very speculations ... only now it is a brothers life hanging in the balance.

Again, am thinking out loud, this is proving more difficult than I know ... Maybe a jump to something you mentioned;

Two things happened immediately, first, I was gripped by a sense of fear (which isn't very common for me) and second, my trust was fully set on getting to my revolver and its three bullets. There was no peace, no call on the Lord, no sense of a Psalm 23 safety, just a full dependence on the safety that my little pistol could bring me.

Brother, fear is not always a bad thing - It's part of our wiring to alert us to danger - [i]unfounded fear[/i] being altogether different. I don't know about berating ourselves too much in situations ... I would like to think 'both' and I might even wonder if you weren't really praying underneath it all, even if it wasn't cognizant at that moment ... Of course, I wasn't there ... And again, my problem with so much of opinion and speculatings ...

I am certain that we all will react differently when that thing, that situation is upon us and I find that your friend did what he thought needed to be done and can find no fault in it or with him. Even yourself ... Now, it is even more difficult to not get into yet another 'what if' but let me just throw this out there ... why not both? [i]Trust[/i] the Lord and [i]use[/i] the pistol - If necessary?

It's all tragic and I have been always a bit ... it's always sat a bit skewered to me how far a certain pacifism is taken - I am want to say different in persecution (For the Faith) and that oft, strangely omitted mention from the Lords own lips to [i]flee[/i] when the inference often seems to be one of [i]embrace[/i]. "Live by the sword, die by the sword" seems taken all out of context in my opinion - a statement of fact on the one hand and a key element being [i]'Live by'[/i] ... But there is far too much that is alluded to throughout scripture, even in allusions to or as illustrative of, for instance the verse that came readily to mind reading all of this;

[i]No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.[/i]

The context being what it is, is it still not derived from the very resistance that it implies?

The other thought is something I recall that Austin Sparks mentioned in a sermon here, a paraphrase of sorts ... That [i]there is no law except where there is first lawlessness[/i]. The former being the remedy for the latter.

Now that I think of it, the Lord alluded to thieves quite a bit didn't He? And just now the recollection came of my mother and her great disdain for [i]sneaks, thieves, cheaters and liars[/i] and I can see her eyebrows turned downward and the fire in her eyes, that piercing stare - even a glance when those words were being put to my hearing for something I got caught in, some suspicion that she being a mother and having that extra sense they have, those extra eyeballs in the back of their heads ...

Ah brother, I do not know for certain - There is fault here to be sure and it is on the perpetrators, not on anyone else.

May the Lord restore Jeff speedily.

So sorry to hear about your friend Jeff's misfortune...Hope he recovers well...

With many people in America getting more and more desperate due to the declining financial situation, I would say that "break-ins" might be on the rise in many places. Should we go to arms to protect ourselves? Or should we submit to God and trust that He is sovereign and can/will stop such people from harming us and our property?

Brother, this question disturbs many people, especially those of us who preserve food by canning or freezing or who have a well stocked pantry. What if people become aware of our stash of food? Will they resort to violence to get it? And what should our attitude be? Should we give it out knowing full well it may never be replenished? Or should we have the attitude the wise virgins had towards to foolish ones? Too many of us who embrace non-resistance as a lifestyle we find this question disturbing. Since it has not happened yet, the only conclusion I come to is that the Holy Spirit will be there to teach us how to respond when this happens. I do not think I am being naive or simplistic but simply realistic: I have no control over the future nor of evil men in our community, but God does and since this is the case, we would do well to rely on him for instructions. If we get harmed, this will not come as a surprise either - He allowed it.

Yes, I see the potential of people running out of food in the days ahead. May we be wise as serpents and harmless as doves..

ginnyrose

I wrestled with God for most of the next day, until I finally came to the resolution that I would not use my gun, even if I thought someone was in the house. What did I do, I started praying more for the safety of my family and I started making a conscious effort to put my sense of security in the Lord. I'm trusting that He is sovereign and able to frustrate the plans of those who would seek to harm me. I'm not saying this is "the more excellent way", but it was the conclusion that brought me peace.

God bless you brother.

ginnyrose

As an update on Jeff. The doctors have determined that he is brain dead and has no hope of sustaining life without machines keeping his organs going. It took most of the night for all of the family to come to agreement that this was definitive and that nothing could be gained by having him transfered to another hospital for a second evaluation...there was just too much damage. Jeff had expressed the wish to his wife (in one of those "what if" conversations that you hope you'll never have to remember) that it would definately be his desire to not remain supported by machines in a situation like this. The family is honoring that wish and he will be taken off the machines some time today.

Thank you all for your prayers and I would ask that you would continue praying for his family:
Wife: Sophia
Sons: Jeffrey and Jones
Four grandchildren, multiple extended family and many, many close friends in the community. Jeff was voted "Man of the Year" in his community last year and had a tremendous impact on many people.

It's all tragic and I have been always a bit ... it's always sat a bit skewered to me how far a certain pacifism is taken

I know, its hard to tell where to draw the line isn't it. Bit of a slippery slope. If I decide not to have a gun to protect my family because I'm trusting God to protect us, then why do I lock my doors at night? If I won't use a gun, then would I use a baseball bat or physical aggression, and if so, then why not just use the more effective gun? We're not talking about a situation where we've gone to witness about Christ among Muslims and stirred them up to violence and we haven't landed our plane in the jungle (as with Jim Elliot) and initiated a confrontation that could become violent. We're talking about a defensive action of protecting our family. I think the answer will definately be different for every individual and in every situation (I'm not a big fan of getting too carried away with situational ethics, but this is an area that is hard to draw an absolute on).

I do not think I am being naive or simplistic but simply realistic: I have no control over the future nor of evil men in our community, but God does and since this is the case, we would do well to rely on him for instructions. If we get harmed, this will not come as a surprise either - He allowed it.

Thank you for your prayers and for your responses. Your statement here speaks for my heart as well. Did God turn His head the other night and some bad guy was able to murder my friend without Him seeing it...not at all. But was my friend killed as punishment for some grave sin in his life...not out of the question, but unlikely. Is there a possibilty that there are greater issues at stake here than the ending of my friends temporal existence and that God is in control and able to bring glory out of this situation...absolutely! Already I am seeing restoration between members of the family that have been estranged and at odds with one another for some time. We cannot know how this situation can fully be used for the glory of God, but it will have an impact on many lives for decades to come. I think again of Jim Elliot...who could have predicted how the tragic death of those men could so impact thousands of people and ultimately lead to the salvation of those who killed them. This is what I have concluded: God is sovereign and He is a good God and all of His ways are good. May this too turn out to the glory of our Lord and the advancement of His kingdom.

I'm sorry brother ...

Sometimes this venue of conversation is sorely lacking - My heart weeps for all more than anything I could say ... but I do concur with you on these other things, just difficult to even address them ... now.

Thanks for this request and discussion. I made a lead weighted baseball bat in wood shop in high school in 1980. I carried it behind my seat in the truck until I was involved in a road rage incident outside Baltimore. I pulled my bat, but could bring myself to hit someone with it. I wasn't a believer at the time, but still God protected me that they didn't turn and use my bat on me and that I wasn't damaged badly. I believe for me that I am to defend myself, family and property spiritually and not physically. Where the exact lines of attack, defense, damage, restraint are, I am not sure, but I know God will give me peace to do His will when or if the situation arises. I believe that we do battle differently than the world does based mainly in the sermon on the mount. I hope Jeff recovers and that his family is blessed. Thanks again,

In Christ Love, Barry

GraceAmazed, you must have been writing even as I was. I feel grieved with you for this event but trust that God is wiser than our estimations of things. "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." This event worked together very good for your friend, whom we trust is beholding Christ now in peace and joy. It shall work together for good to all of the believers involved, and others who may be called through the event to faith in Christ. We may rejoice in the promises of God who "giveth and taketh away."

I thought about this subject for a while last night, while working by myself in a restaurant where I clean up after hours. Robbery is a reality there, too, as just this year a friend was held at gun point to open the safe.

A thought occurred to me which had not before. Were the Old Testament saints acting out of unrighteous fear when they seized weapons to defend kin and land? Abraham rescued Lot with arms, David slew the Philistines with arms, Samson made arms of anything at hand, and all of these did so in faith. Their reliance was no more upon weapons to defend their lives than our confidence should be in food to preserve health - as the generally appointed means ordained by God. David said, "you teach my hands to make war," while contemning the bloodthirsty. His desire was not for undue violence, but for civil peace and equity, and so, with the exception of his murder of Uriah, his violence was sanctioned by God. The Law itself made provisions to slay an intruder in the night, though one was to act mercifully in the light, if able to see that one's life was not endangered after all.

Exodus 2:22 - "If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him."

That is, no one is guilty of murder for killing such an unexpected intruder, for in such situations one cannot easily discern the force necessary to defend life and property.

Paul's words come to mind, that if a brother would take another brother to court over property, it is better to give up the property and preserve the good reputation of Christ in believers. Yet a higher value is set upon life. God has not only allowed powers to wield the sword for justice, but has ordained them for this ministry, even to terrify. [Romans 13:1-4] Christians are nowhere forbidden to take part in civil government, but only to abstain from evil. So much as one's government has granted citizen authority to take arms for necessary defense of self, and for the repulse of evil doers, I find very little to discourage Christians from the use of weapons.

The more I think about it, the more persuaded I am from the whole of scripture that God has ordained Christ's gospel to be spread by the sword of the Spirit, while the stability of society is ministered by the sword of rulers and their deputies, including citizens, who minister justice on behalf of God. The first table is urged by the voice of preaching; the second is compelled by sword of threatening.

These are different thoughts than I had six months ago.

To my mind, the question of conscience remains, "do I lust for violence out of season? Do I take up arms only as a means given by God, as food which must receive His blessing in order to be effective?"

God give us wisdom!

The purpose for our being brought unto Him is that by our example others would also be compelled to come. It is by our death that others will be brought unto life. If we value our possessions over the life of another, how can we say that we have died so that others may live?

Will it not be our very willingness to give up our food and possessions that others will be won unto Him? Do we not have confidence that He will provide that which we need? Do we not profess that it is more blessed to give than to receive?

These are difficult questions for the times that are now upon us.

My prayers go out to Jeff and his family.

No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

Be then it occurred to me that someone that is in the Lord could also be considered to be a "strong man," but just what would it be that would "bind the strong man." Could it not be said that relying upon something other than the Lord for protection would make us weak - for in so doing, we are turning away from Him, and therefore are no longer strong - which in turn makes it possible for us to be bound by Satan and open to the spoiling of our house?

In other words, by resorting to violence, or some other means of support, are we not forsaking the ways of the Lord, thereby placing ourselves in Satan's realm which in turn makes us subject to his laws and his ways?

I'm so sorry to hear this, Brother. I'd looked up this post hoping to hear good news. Our prayers are with the family and friends of this good man.

Don

We prayed in Church tonight for everyone involved in this unhappy incident, which demonstrates one of the wonderful aspects of this online community. Setting aside differences to pray for one another is a true demonstration of Christian love.

HeartSong said,

"By resorting to violence, or some other means of support, are we not forsaking the ways of the Lord?"

When the Lord resorts to violence, does He then forsake His own ways? When Samuel slew Agag, or Elijah slew the prophets of Baal, was that a departure from faith, or the peculiar means by which faith worked in those instances? One may say that these operated under the Law, but even Abraham who lived before the Law pursued and fought the men who kidnapped his nephew. And was this a forsaking of faith, or the work of it?

Consulting the New Testament, we find in Hebrews 11:33-34, "Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness... waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens."

I am increasingly convinced that we are to be very gracious and merciful, while also holding the sword in obedience to God's ordinance of civil authority. We are not to compel people to believe the gospel through violence, but we are to support violence as the means God has ordained to terrify men from committing gross evil upon others.

HeartSong, may I ask you a question? Do you believe that spanking children is strictly an Old Covenant principle which has no relevance to New Covenant Christians? And is this not a form of restrained violence, suited to subdue their sinful actions? If God has continued to grant parents authority to afflict their children as a means of preventing further sin, why might He not ordain the use of greater violence to restrain the evil deeds of the wicked?

Hi Michael,

HeartSong, may I ask you a question? Do you believe that spanking children is strictly an Old Covenant principle which has no relevance to New Covenant Christians? And is this not a form of restrained violence, suited to subdue their sinful actions?

In the Old Testament, the battles were fought in the flesh, for the Spirit of the Lord had not yet come to dwell in man. In the New Testament, the battles are won in the Spirit.

Hebrews 11:39-40 goes on to say:
And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

The only offensive weapon in our list of armour, is the Word.

The Lord has shown me again, and again, that when I fight back in the flesh, be it an unkind word, or a sinful thought, I am defeated. Why should it be any different on a larger scale - that being resorting to violence?

Here is something that I read in my devotions this morning:

Matthew 6:19-21
Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

I have found some of the most radical statements in scripture to be these from Matthew 5:

vs.39 - "But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 - If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. 41 - Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 - Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you."

I know we must look at the full counsel of scripture, but I did want to enter these scriptures into our thoughts on this issue. Especially this idea of "do not resist an evil person." Prior to Christ, I was a person who was very confrontational and prone to get in fights over rather small issues. This was one of the first areas that the Lord dealt with me on. Over the years, I have found myself in many situations where I sought to live by this idea of not resisting an evil person and I would have to say that at these times that I have seen God move in ways that I don't believe He otherwise would have. Many times (not always, but many times) I have seen the path of nonresistance act as a catalyst for change in the life of the "evil person" or aggressor.