"When we approach theology with our traditions in mind we only view different positions in such a way as to poke holes in them rather than consider what they present as an alternative to what we have already been taught. Aside from the essentials, we need to acknowledge the possibility that what our denominational traditions have indoctrinated us with may be wrong in some areas. We need to be honest and thoughtful Christians."
I think it is right but could be more certain if it was said in fewer, smaller words.
Just what does theology mean?
. . . we need to acknowledge the possibility that what our denominational traditions have indoctrinated us with may be wrong in some areas.
This part is dead on. I understand it completely. I see no call for denominations. If it is not in the Bible, it is man-made.
Why do you ask??
white stone
Good topic..
It just depends, really...
Just for discussion, let's say our doctrinal tradition is summed in the Nicene Creed. This summation of Christian faith has been confessed by Christian for over a thousand years. I don't necessarily think we should approach theology with the idea that this could be wrong.
Ultimately, I think there is a sense in which there is a catholic (little "c") faith, that cannot be denied, and should not be questioned. It has come up in threads before just what this catholic faith actually is, however, I'm not sure how to answer that question. Personally, I am more familiar with the Reformation side of things. The Heidelberg Catechism lists the articles of the "Apostle's Creed" as our undoubted articles of the Christian faith.
Historically, the church has confessed the Apostle's Creed, the Nicene Creed, and the Athanasian Creed. I would be willing to say that these things should not be denied or questioned.
As the body of Christ, I think it is important that we hold forth and proclaim certain truths with unflinching boldness and confidence. All, including cults, can profess that they simply "believe the Bible", but, ultimately, we have to confess what we believe the Bible teaches, and we usually have to use extra-Biblical language to confess it, since cults and false teachings abound. I'm not trying to say that these creeds are God-breathed, however, the vast reception of them through the ages by the Church is something to take note of.
With care in Christ,
Taylor
int3grity wrote:
"When we approach theology with our traditions in mind we only view different positions in such a way as to poke holes in them rather than consider what they present as an alternative to what we have already been taught. Aside from the essentials, we need to acknowledge the possibility that what our denominational traditions have indoctrinated us with may be wrong in some areas. We need to be honest and thoughtful Christians."
[When I mention some of my bandwagons, I am not trying to hijack this thread, I'm just stating facts according to my life.] I have been involved in and ridden on many bandwagons in my 30 years of being converted.
When we approach theology with our traditions in mind we only view different positions in such a way as to poke holes in them rather than consider what they present as an alternative to what we have already been taught.
Oh there are many more bandwagons but this is how the Lord showed this to me, when we get on a bandwagon, per se, [i]"we view different positions is such a way as to poke holes in them rather than to consider them..."
I am trying to stay off of any bandwagon but you know what? I love a good loud parade!! LOL So I know that I must be careful and keep asking God if what I am believing is a bandwagon. I know that when I was on the pre-trib bandwagon and let's not forget the post-trib bandwagon, so because of my good loud parade, I would alienate others who believed differently.
We all like to believe we are open-minded and that the Lord could speak to us at anytime about any truth but in reality that is not the case. Our "bandwagons" keep us from hearing truth. Oh He can speak to us just not about our bandwagon and parade! LOL Am I saying that I hear truth all the time? No way, I'm just sharing with you what the Lord showed to me about how we doggedly stick to the things "WE" believe in. Just my 2 cents.
God bless,
Hello Lysa,
You explained that in a manner that I could understand. Very good analogy. Yes, I agree with that statement.
white stone
Denominations are actually good for unity I believe. As the saying goes, fences make good neighbors. It is true they tend to become symbols of exclusion, but I believe most of them are the result of honest and sincere people trying to find the truest path they can find.
Recently a group of people left our church over a disagreement over a doctrinal issue. To them the issue warranted parting ways. And so it goes. SI herself is a community that attracts separatists who are dissatisfied with their local churches. Every week we critique others, placing them outside of our own spheres, identifying ourselves as different from their faults. Perhaps the only thing that keeps SI from becoming a denomination is that she is not an actual church. If she was, it is almost certain within a generation that a coda of accepted doctrine and behavior would be instituted and she would be routinized into a denomination of sincere disciples.
While I understand the weariness we have with factions and partisan spirit, I personally think the glory of achieving an earthly church without denominations is beyond the reach of this dispensation. Once we no longer have to look through a glass darkly, and can see God as he truly is, then I believe we will have no denominations.
A few years ago, several families within my larger family decided to try living together. It has been quite a challenge not simply because they are selfish, but because their values are slightly different. Some value hard work as the highest life principle, others value family time as the highest priority. Each thinks the other needs to see things their way. Often their differences give rise to deeply felt misunderstandings and hurts. In the end they stay together out of love for one another, but it has been an instructive experiment to say the least.
So, while we love our larger family, we find it more manageable to live together in smaller family units. There are fewer heads of the household, operating as both high priest, and material provider. There are fewer debates over what is more important among such faultless but often irreconcilable virtues such as frugality, raising children, saving money, ministering to the community, achieving career goals, preparing for Christ' return, preparing for retirement ect. Individual households can more readily find agreement on these specific points.
So we have own households that we are comfortable with, our out of town relatives we love and like to visit on holidays...and those bad seed relatives whose existence we would rather forget altogether. We may be one tribe of Abraham, but we raise our families in separate tents.
:-)
MC
Amen brother MC.
We may be one tribe of Abraham, but we raise our families in separate tents.
Amen.
Our "bandwagons" keep us from hearing truth.
. . . fences make good neighbors. It is true they tend to become symbols of exclusion, but I believe most of them are the result of honest and sincere people trying to find the truest path they can find.
If God is not leading the way, we are going nowhere.
[b][size=medium][color=3333FF][font=Georgia]If God is not leading the way, we are going nowhere.[/font][/color][/size][/b]
Giving a double Amen to that!
. . . fences make good neighbors. It is true they tend to become symbols of exclusion, but I believe most of them are the result of honest and sincere people trying to find the truest path they can find.
If God is not leading the way, we are going nowhere.
You say the problem is that the people are trying to find their own path - and instead of looking up to the author and finisher of their faith, they are looking down and miss the truth because they are intent upon finding their own way.
Would you please explain this to me? I am not sure I get what you are saying.
Why, in the scenario MC penned, are the people not looking up to God? I believe, or at least understood it to mean, MC was describing Christians. I took it for granted that MC being a Christian and this thread being about Christians that the 'people' were Christians. Christians follow Christ. I understood it to mean that any path they were on was one they believed to be the one that was following Christ. I took it in a whole other way.
Did I miss something?
Thanks for you patience and understanding in advance.
I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed. :-)
I took it for granted that MC being a Christian and this thread being about Christians that the 'people' were Christians.
I was. :-)
While certainly there are divisions within the ranks caused by apostates pursuing unbliblcal agendas, I think history shows that there can also be separations in the interest of spirit-led biblical integrity.
Perhaps we can discuss the idea that there is a meaningful difference between division and separation. I think history demonstrates that many fine denominations were started not as divisions, but as separations.
Is the difference meaningful or semantical? I believe we sometimes hold uncharitable grudges towards one another, because we add the bondage of uniformity to the bond of unity. For unity's sake, I think there is a worthwhile distinction to be made.
"Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.."
"Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate...."
Blessings,
MC
You say the problem is that the people are trying to find their own path - and instead of looking up to the author and finisher of their faith, they are looking down and miss the truth because they are intent upon finding their own way.Would you please explain this to me? I am not sure I get what you are saying.
Why, in the scenario MC penned, are the people not looking up to God? I believe, or at least understood it to mean, MC was describing Christians. I took it for granted that MC being a Christian and this thread being about Christians that the 'people' were Christians. Christians follow Christ. I understood it to mean that any path they were on was one they
[b]believed[/b] to be the one that was following Christ. I took it in a whole other way.
It is impossible to function as the Body if we are divided. It would be like cutting off your hand and expecting your fingers to continue to work. We must be one and yet at the same time function individually in our different capacities. This can only be done by having one mind, that being the mind of Christ.
If each individual it looking unto the Lord, He will direct us in perfect unity. The erection of fences is contrary to this whole concept for it is a wall of division that creates a disability.
Again, it is not about believing that we are on the right path - for in this we are looking unto ourselves. It is a matter of believing in Him, and then allowing Him to put us on the right path. That being all that we are, becoming all that He is - becoming one in Him.
If everyone is looking to Jesus, there will be no division, because He can not be divided.
The problem is that everyone believes they are looking to Jesus.
Thanks for your reply.
Perhaps we can discuss the idea that there is a meaningful difference between division and separation.
For unity's sake, I think there is a worthwhile distinction to be made.
Good Point. I made an attempt to suggest this very thing in a thread a while back. I do not see 'fences' as being divisional (at least in a destructive way) in the least. I believe Robert Frost was right.
I do not see 'fences' as being divisional (at least in a destructive way) in the least.
This discussion is locked.
