Sell all you own and give to the poor - Your take on this, please

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White_Stone Feb 17, 2009

My husband has been struggling with Luke 12:33 and The Apostle Paul's advice to sell and give to the poor. I searched and found this and wonder what you think. ~~[url=http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1071310/sell_all_you_possess_and_give_to_the.html]~~Associated Content - Sell your possessions and give to the poor[/url]

If we sold everything and gave the money to the poor - we would be in with the poor. If we stay in our home we have the means to garden and produce excess to share.

What do you think?
white stone

sermonindex Feb 17, 2009

white_stone, please check out this sermon, it is a quite Biblical and shocking look at the subject.

~~[url=http://www.fleebabylon.com/audio/sheep_and_goats.mp3]~~Sheep And Goats: David Servant[/url]

The primary difference between the rich young ruler and American "christians" is this. The rich young ruler believed what Jesus said about entering into eternal life and went away weeping. We don't believe Jesus and walk away rejoicing in our self deception. - paraphrase, David Servant

sermonindex Feb 17, 2009

This is where you need to get a Bible commentary. This is not a command to all Christians, as evidence by other believers later in scripture who did not sell all they had and gave to the poor. In Acts they shared all things, so obviously they didnt sell everything and give it to the poor... otherwise how would the believers been able to share all things among themselves?

No, Jesus was making a point to the rich young ruler. The rich kid was bragging to Jesus that he had obeyed the Law since he was a child (which was a lie because scripture says all men have broken the Law!). Jesus didnt even argue the point with Him. He simply said "One thing you lack... sell all you have and give it to the poor"... and the rich kid walked away because he had a lot of stuff. It proved that He did not love God, and that he had idols in his life. He had "other gods"... prooving his lie about keeping all of the Law, for he had not kept all of the Law.

See what Jesus was getting at? It was ~~[b]~~not[/b] about selling all his stuff and giving to the poor... it was about catching this kid in a lie about keeping all the Law, even tho the kid probably believed he's kept it all. But Jesus shown the light on his heart and proved that no, he had not kept all the Law.

Proving why this rich young ruler needed a Savior. Hopefully, after much reflection, he did in fact find salvation. Bible doesnt say.

You cant just take a story or a verse like that and make it a hard fast rule for Christians to obey. That wasnt even what Jesus was trying to do or communicate.

Most American Christians, however, are in the same boat with the rich young ruler.

Krispy

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Nellie Feb 17, 2009

The rich , young ruler worshiped his riches.
He wanted his money more than he wanted Jesus.
It is a heart issue.
We should always be willing to give to the poor.
I firmly believe that if we see a need, and we can meet that need, we should do so.
When we are led by the Spirit of God, He will show us what to do.
God Bless
Nellie

sermonindex Feb 17, 2009

The problem I have found is that thousands of children are starving to death and dying of preventable diseases around the world every day while we mostly sit at ease in Zion. I strongly reccomend listening to the David Servant message in this thread and the KP Yohannen message on the front of SI. What if everything we believe is so far from new testament Christianity that even our light is darkness? How great then is that darkness?

The scripture tells us that having food and covering we should be content and anything else can (and in America most likely will be) a snare. We need to be honest and stop fronting here and start dealing with the lie we have been living in the US for so long. In order to obey Jesus, we need to start somewhere. The rich kid couldn't have sold all of his possesions in one day, but he wasn't even willing to start because of the cost. One thing that has helped me to understand this are David Servants teachings on mammon. You can read his book "through the needles eye" for free on-line, or I will gladly send a copy to whoever wants one. You will never be the same.

~~[url=http://www.heavensfamily.org/ss/books]~~http://www.heavensfamily.org/ss/books[/url]

Also, if we are willing to take off the blinders, there are multitudes of widows and orphans that we can support through their ministry. We must all deal with this personaly, nobody can tell anyone else "how much" to give or keep. But I do know this one thing to quote Paul Washer "American christianity is based more upon our godless culture then it is upon the word of God and so many people are deceived..."

~~[url=http://www.heavensfamily.org/ot]~~http://www.heavensfamily.org/ot[/url]

In Christ - Jim

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run2win Feb 17, 2009

The context of this passage from Luke has the theme of Jesus telling His children: "Trust Me." We are not placing our trust in Him when we want to manage, own, control. It's recognizing that all that I have is His, and I must hold it all in an open hand. It is a call to let go of that which hinders us from living for Him.

Staying in the context of this passage, we find Jesus will provide for our needs as we follow His command in Luke 12:31 "...seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you." Also, Matthew 6:33 "But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and His righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you."

This form of trust is indeed difficult for us. We must ask the Lord to search and examine our individual hearts, because we all struggle with various forms of temptation and idolatry.

"Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen." 1 John 5:21

"For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also...No man can serve two masters..." Matthew 6:21,24a

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MerleW Feb 17, 2009

[image][img align=left]http://www.livesacrifice.com/library/eye-of-needle.jpg[/img]
Another powerful life impacting teaching on the subject is a book written by one the Tuesday night prayer warriors. I strongly recommend it.

http://www.livesacrifice.com/Documents/througheyeofneedle.pdf
or
http://www.scrollpublishing.com/store/more-Eye-of-Needle.html

sermonindex Feb 17, 2009

Thank you MerleW for the link.

From the book...

For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also (Mt.6:21)

In other words, says Jesus, look first at your treasure (where you are making your investments), and that will tell you where your heart is. Don’t
try to look first at your heart. It’s too deceitful, and probably won’t give you an honest answer anyway. Look instead at your possessions, and then you will know where your heart is.
Many of us have tried to deny that this statement applies to us. We say that although we own an abundance of material things, our heart is not
really in our possessions. Yet when the test actually comes, and we are faced with giving up those possessions, one by one we all prove that our heart actually was in them.

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psalm1 Feb 18, 2009

My husband has been struggling with Luke 12:33 and The Apostle Paul's advice to sell and give to the poor"

This would be presumption,not faith.

You need a specific "rhema" word from God,and also confirmation before doing anything like this.
In order for this to be a "across the board doctrine" you would need scripture that rebuked tons of believers for NOT following this "sell all' pattern.
This is actually a "heart" issue.And it contains a clue about tithing (not tithing)
The new covenant is an "all" covenant.
It's not part it is all. It ALL belongs to him.
If you are broke ,you give. There is no lack with God. Only abundance. God will never ,ever,ever let you down. There is a way to do this'sell all' but it is a faith thing and most Christians would fail if they tried this.

Remember the early church did sell all...but...then possessions were re-distributed.
Then this whole thing was abandoned.

M

MrBillPro Feb 18, 2009

Mr. Bill say if Krispy sold out and gave all his money to the poor there would be no more poor folks. :-P

sermonindex Feb 18, 2009

Mr. Bill say if Krispy sold out and gave all his money to the poor there would be no more poor folks.

Lol... if only that were true. Hardly.

Bill, if my nose was running money I would blow it all on you.

Krispy

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Dimlyviewed Feb 22, 2009

I would suppose that we could take this a little further and own the NT claim that your message states. Why should we donate to a ministry to support widows and orphans when it is a call to the local assembly to undertake such a task? Why not keep this list ourselves and administer this duty properly? Why should we remove blinders when we aren't even practicing what we preach? Let alone opening the Word as much as we tell others they should be?

sermonindex Feb 23, 2009

Why should we donate to a ministry to support widows and orphans when it is a call to the local assembly to undertake such a task?

This is a call to individual Christians, to love your neighbor as yourself, as well as the collection of local Christians in an area. In missions "some go down in the well and some hold the ropes". Those back in America holding the ropes should certainly seek out to find poor believers, the homeless, etc, to help locally also.

Matthew 25:31-46, James 1:27, Luke 12:33-37

"Why should we remove blinders when we aren't even practicing what we preach? Let alone opening the Word as much as we tell others they should be?"

Only you can answer those questions for yourself if you are not practicing what you preach or opening the word of God. I would encourage you to seek to do both though.

-Jim

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Dimlyviewed Feb 23, 2009

This is a call to individual Christians, to love your neighbor as yourself, as well as the collection of local Christians in an area. In missions "some go down in the well and some hold the ropes". Those back in America holding the ropes should certainly seek out to find poor believers, the homeless, etc, to help locally also.

I believe you may be missing the point here. The call is not to sign up for a mission board and subcontract the gospel out to a foreign missionary or ministry that does the work of the Saints for the Saints. The Word never says this is something that we have a choice in. While we spend time quoting memorable statements of the revered Paul Washer, we miss entirely the call to missions for all Christians. It's like preaching the tithe, you are letting those who neglect their duty off easy because it's easier to send money to someone else who does it for you.

I think you contradict your own logic. You say in America we are content to sit up in Zion at ease while others suffer, but you say we should send money to those who are suffering doing the work. The only way we have this ease is because we are still sitting up in Zion and falsifying our piety through our acts of "religion."

Only you can answer those questions for yourself if you are not practicing what you preach or opening the word of God. I would encourage you to seek to do both though.

I wasn't asking your advice, I was indicting your statements.

sermonindex Feb 23, 2009

I wasn't asking your advice, I was indicting your statements.

That's to bad since I was simply stating the word of God and heart of Jesus. What's your name brother?

-Jim

sermonindex Feb 23, 2009

While we spend time quoting memorable statements of the revered Paul Washer, we miss entirely the call to missions for all Christians.

You clearly are not speaking of the Holy Spirit. You have no idea what absurdity you are speaking.

-Jim

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White_Stone Feb 23, 2009

Jim, Thank you for speaking up. Since I started this thread I have been considering trying to delete it. I would appreciate a moderator stepping in.

white stone

sermonindex Feb 23, 2009

White_stone

I think your thread is great. There will always be strong feelings when we are gutting at the heart of mammon in our lives. In fact, someone joined SI JUST to oppose what had been an otherwise fruitful thread here. They were either really convicted by brother Davids message or had a "pre-existing" reason to start making wild speculations about what is and isnt being said here. I was simply sharing a personal conviction that I have, that is, living in a middle class neighborhood it is easy to have blinders on and not see those brethren in need around the world. That is why I thank God for places like Orphans Tear, GFA, etc... and for those who the Lord used to bring me to this realization.

Yes we are told to care for the poor believers amongs us and I believe many here on SI do "practice what they preach" despite the unsubstantiated implication of our new member. Yet even the Apostle said he wanted equality amongst the Churches and collected money for poorer brethren elsewhere. (2 Cornithians 8)

-Jim

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RobertW Feb 23, 2009

The problem I have found is that thousands of children are starving to death and dying of preventable diseases around the world every day while we mostly sit at ease in Zion.

One of the challenges in our times is to know what to do with a host of media provided information about lost souls, poverty and suffering in the world. This is one of the aspects of the "Just who is responsible for this state of affairs" thread.

The reality is we are called of God to hear what the Spirit is saying to us and in our congregation. That is where our responsibility lies. The need is too great and too overwhelming to do otherwise. Again I Timothy 6:

[color=000066]Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.[/color]

Negative commands:

1) Do not be high minded
2) Do not ~~[u]~~trust[/u] in uncertain riches

Positive commands:

1) Trust in the living God
2) Do good and be rich in good works
3) Be ready to distribute (your goods)
4) Willing to communicate (be generous)

Central Truth:

1) Trust in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy.

Trusting God and serving God often brings the blessing of God. When we live a life of contentment in accordance with I Timothy 6 we position ourselves to be an instrument for bringing glory to God through giving.

[color=000066]Now he who supplies seed to the farmer and bread to eat will also supply you with seed and multiply it and enlarge the harvest that results from your righteousness. (II Cor. 9)[/color]

This is the balance. God provides us with what we need to enjoy richly while at the same time providing a means of our being a blessing to those in need as we are sensitive to the Holy Spirit or purpose in our own hearts to give (sometimes it is hard to tell the difference). The devil typically don't tell us to give to those in need. Yet because the needs are so great we must bear in mind that our responsibility is ~~[u]~~first[/u] to pay our bills (debts) and provide for those of our own household. Contentment should be central.

God will sometimes bless us with things we don't expect. He has a purpose in that. There is no need to feel bad or shunned. Delight thyself also in the LORD and He will give you the desires of your heart. You cannot out give God- but you must be sensitive and wise. Men go to seed on all kinds of passages and end up in ruin. Keep a level head and some common sense.

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White_Stone Feb 23, 2009

Thank you Jim, Robert and Dimlyviewed,

Especially ~~[b]~~Dimlyviewed[/b], for it was because of his posts that Jim and Robert supplied their heartfelt comments.

Praise the Lord for turning what I thought was a disaster into a blessing. How well I know that He does this and yet, how easily I forget. I should write Romans 8:28 on the backs of my hands to always keep it before my eyes.

~~[b]~~[size=x-small][color=000099]Romans 8:28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.[/color][/size][/b]

Kindest regards to you all,
white stone

(edited to insert new members name in place of the phrase 'new member')