To: Benbrockway
If I recall-- Abel brought the blood sacrifice,(the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof) and Cain brought the fruit of the ground. The sacrifice required by God was the sacrifice of a firstborn lamb, without spot or blemish.
But anyway, no one wants to nit pick here.
The great commission was given to each believer, not just Pastors. Pastors are included, but believers are not excluded. We are all in the soul winning business, we are all fishers of men.
As far as giving money to anyone for anything, whether it be the homeless man or woman on the corner, or my Pastor, or, my neighbor, or anyone, the Bible tells us to not let our left hand know what our right hand is giving. The Lord has blessed me with everything that I have, it is actually His, and not mine, and as such, he will replenish much more that what I can give away to those that come across my path.
"Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again."
The Bible is also clear that a Pastor should be paid.
Now, I could reject God's command, and hold on tight to what He has given me, and not let go, but then--- I would not be able to help those people that He puts in my path each day, nor help support the Church that I attend, which supports Missionaries all around the World. And guess what? God would quit giving to me, because I was more concerned about myself than His Kingdom.
Matthew 25:14-30 describes God's reward for those that "hold on" to what He has given them:
14. For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
15. And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
16. Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
17. And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
18. But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
19. After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
20. And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more. 21. His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
22. He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
23. His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
[b] 24. Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed: 25. And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.[/b]
26. His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27. Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28. Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29. For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30. And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
The blood bought child of God should never be "stingy", should never be "tight" or "cheap", but be focused upon God and His Kingdom, and the work He has given us to do.
Sincerely,
Walter
BenBrockway wrote:
DELETED
Waltern,
In response, I would like to point out a few things to add to the discussion. What was it that Cain and Abel offered as an offering? According to Genesis 4 it was the sacrifice of animals. So, what do we know now, concerning this? Well, Jesus Christ was the ultimate Sacrifice. We now no longer have to sacrifice an animal as an offering to God. We now go through Christ. So, because we now go through Christ, we are to "...offer our bodies as a living sacrifice..." (Romans 12:1).
I read 1Cor. 9:7-14 (and even through verse 19). Here is what I find interesting about the Scripture:
Paul says - "3This is my defense to those who sit in judgment on me. 4Don't we have the right to food and drink?5Don't we have the right to take a believing wife along with us, as do the other apostles and the Lord's brothers and Cephas? 6Or is it only I and Barnabas who must work for a living?"
Here is what I believe this portion of Scripture to be saying: They have the right to eat and drink just as much as the next guy. They also have the right to take a believing wife along with them to help prepare the food like some of the other apostles. However, they don't. Both Paul and Barnabas work for a living (outside of them preaching).
1Cor. 9:9-12 says: "9For it is written in the Law of Moses: "Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain."Is it about oxen that God is concerned? 10Surely he says this for us, doesn't he? Yes, this was written for us, because when the plowman plows and the thresher threshes, they ought to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest. 11If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap a material harvest from you? 12If others have this right of support from you, shouldn't we have it all the more?"
So, is it saying that they should have the right to earn some SUPPORT, too? Yes, but let's read on...
"12But we did not use this right. On the contrary, we put up with anything rather than hinder the gospel of Christ. 13Don't you know that those who work in the temple get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar? 14In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.
15But I have not used any of these rights. And I am not writing this in the hope that you will do such things for me. I would rather die than have anyone deprive me of this boast. 16Yet when I preach the gospel, I cannot boast, for I am compelled to preach. Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel! 17If I preach voluntarily, I have a reward; if not voluntarily, I am simply discharging the trust committed to me. 18What then is my reward? Just this: that in preaching the gospel I may offer it free of charge, and so not make use of my rights in preaching it.
19Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible."
They (Paul and Barnabas) did not use this right. They received what ever was given to them (not a tithe, not 10%, but what was given as a gift, an offering of whatever they (the church) gave out of love - and mind you much of this was food, not just money) (oh, plus they were traveling ministers, not "stick-to-one-church" pastors).
In verse 14, Paul says, "14In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel. "
What does Paul mean by that? I think Paul ultimately means faith and trust in the Lord and also the two greatest commandments (Love the Lord your God... love your neighbor).
If you put your faith and trust in the Lord and do His will, you will be provided for. All your needs will be met. You don't need to ask congregations. You don't need to require a congregation to tithe. You just need to trust that you will be provided for(and not just financially. Food, clothing, car and home repairs included).
Paul then says, "15But I have not used any of these rights. And I am not writing this in the hope that you will do such things for me. I would rather die than have anyone deprive me of this boast. 16Yet when I preach the gospel, I cannot boast, for I am compelled to preach. Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel!"
Paul basically says in verse 15, "I'm not saying this so that you'll give to me. I'm not asking for the money." What do preachers do today? They preach tithing so that people will give more money. Preachers ask or require (I say require, because preachers basically say that a person MUST give if they want to be blessed by the Lord) that tithes be given.
In verse 17 and 18 Paul says, "17If I preach voluntarily, I have a reward; if not voluntarily, I am simply discharging the trust committed to me. 18What then is my reward? Just this: that in preaching the gospel I may offer it free of charge, and so not make use of my rights in preaching it."
Preaching it voluntarily without expecting money and trusting in the Lord is a preacher's greatest reward. Why? Because if they are doing God's will, they will be blessed fully and even abundently. A preacher shouldn't be in the position of, "Well I will preach about Christ's love to you, I will preach on God's desire for mankind to be saved and become the bride of Christ, but only if you give me your money." Which, by the way is basically what most preachers do today (in context, not necessarily by word of mouth).
He doesn't make himself a slave to anyone (not one single person), so as to win as many people to Christ as possible.
What do most pastors and churches do today?
What do they do? They say that you are a member of a church if you tithe. What does that make the pastor? It makes him a slave to the church and to the congregate he expects to tithe.
It is the pastor's sole responsiblity to win souls. That's it. Beyond that he must trust in God for his needs to be met. He must only turn to God for his needs to be met. He should not be turning to the congregation.
If he cannot rely on God to have his needs met, his church's electricity to be met, his church's upkeep to be met, or his traveling expenses to be met, then he is relying upon man to meet his needs. Being a pastor should not be a job, but a calling. If it is a calling, a salary should not be in place, but a practice of trust, faith and prayer.
1Timothy 5-17-18 says, "17The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching. 18For the Scripture says, "Do not muzzle the ox while it is treading out the grain," and "The worker deserves his wages."
The elders are worthy of double honor. The double honor is the pastor's and teacher's wage, according to this passage. And what I mean is the honor, itself. Not money, but honor.
Just my 3 9/10 cents.
