The coming evangelical collapse

sermonindex Mar 11, 2009

Hi Guys

Here is an excellent article from the Christian Science Monitor. Here is the first few paragraphs...click on the link to read the rest.....Frank

Oneida, Ky. - We are on the verge – within 10 years – of a major collapse of evangelical Christianity. This breakdown will follow the deterioration of the mainline Protestant world and it will fundamentally alter the religious and cultural environment in the West.

Within two generations, evangelicalism will be a house deserted of half its occupants. (Between 25 and 35 percent of Americans today are Evangelicals.) In the "Protestant" 20th century, Evangelicals flourished. But they will soon be living in a very secular and religiously antagonistic 21st century.

This collapse will herald the arrival of an anti-Christian chapter of the post-Christian West. Intolerance of Christianity will rise to levels many of us have not believed possible in our lifetimes, and public policy will become hostile toward evangelical Christianity, seeing it as the opponent of the common good.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0310/p09s01-coop.html

sermonindex Mar 11, 2009

wow the secular or "cultish" prophets are speaking again! where are the prophets of true christianity??

Evangelicalism needs a "rescue mission" from the world Christian community. It is time for missionaries to come to America from Asia and Africa. Will they come? Will they be able to bring to our culture a more vital form of Christianity?

We need new evangelicalism that learns from the past and listens more carefully to what God says about being His people in the midst of a powerful, idolatrous culture.

sermonindex Mar 11, 2009

I agree brother, where are they? Protecting their pensions perhaps ? :) Anyway, to be brutally honest, I long to see this happen. We do need missionaries here and in Britain and in the West in General.

I find it hard to argue with anything he says. That has been one of my biggest fears in the last ten years, that Christians would throw their lot in with the world(politics, culture war and so on, none of it necessarily bad) and when it was rejected by a fickle world, then so to would the Christian message because it is so identified with the worldly message. I do not mourn the end of Evangelicalism, God has brought it to pass and the people who brought it about are the people who fought so hard against it, classic irony. It is not by might nor power but by My Spirit says the Lord. Now we and our children will have to deal with the worlds backlash. And people like Rush and Coulter and Hannity will not be sharing our fate, I have no doubt of that. The wind will seriously change soon, and these kinds of people always know what way the wind blows.

The movement of Azuza street and at the same time the Welsh revivals swept away dead denominationalism and the Assemblies of God and the Elim Pentecostal churches were born. They swept away much of the dead denominations. This coming movement will sweep away those institutions. That's not to say that they don't hang on for a long time, they will. In Britain it is not unusual to have a church with 12 people in them. What this author points out was my biggest fear, the involvement in Politics and the so called "culture war," has dealt the church a grievous blow, because we are identified with the world when it should be the other way around. The question is now, how will one move forward? What advice to the sheep?

It seems that God stubbornly refuses to glorify ministries, He only glorifies Himself................brother Frank

sermonindex Mar 11, 2009

The problem isn't that the churches are or will be empty, it is that they will be full. The problem is what exactly are they full of?

Old Joe

D

dohzman Mar 11, 2009

Psa 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
Psa 1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
Psa 1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
Psa 1:4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
Psa 1:5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
Psa 1:6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

I neither recieve this report nor do I acknowledge it as being anything prophetic, maybe a wolf in sheeps clothing, maybe. The Holy writ declares the very character of God as love and than later describes love as never failing. The Lord is not slack, He will have a people, strong and mighty, full of the Holy Ghost and power! They may look a little rough around the edges but they will glorify thier God and Savior Jesus Christ. The route the Lord takes His disciples is sometimes....no...most of the times a difficult path to understand, but like Israel who was 1 days travel to the promised land but had to travel 40 years in circles till the old man was fully put off, so will the Lord accomplish in these days something wonderful through His people. Jesus asked the disciples will you also leave me? He has brought the large portion of disciple to a difficult cross roads, eat my flesh and drink my blood, total dependence, that always weeds out on the course of discipleship. We'll see who's willing to stand in a pulpit when it's not popular to do so and when there's no money or self grandisment attached to that calling. When the cross in real life is again something nessary to embrace, than we'll see... but I wouldn't count out the church of Jesus Christ just yet! The gates of hell SHALL NOT prevail against it! Never!

sermonindex Mar 11, 2009

Oh please Dohzman....good grief. No one said anything about the Lord's Church. Before we start talking about Holy writs you really have to read, its really important. What was suggested was the the Evangelicals are facing a precarious future. The very fact that one would call himself an Evangelical or a Baptist or a Pentecostal is part of the problem. If we know Jesus, then we are His followers. There is not a single person in here who would ever say that the Lord's Church could ever be defeated. deep sighhhhh......brother Frank

sermonindex Mar 11, 2009

I totaly agree Joe. With full and bulging church's right now we are in a woeful spiritual state. Billy Graham said that his biggest regret was the spiritual state that now exists. My only point was about dead denominations, how they tend to hang on forever, keepers of the status quo............Frank

D

dohzman Mar 11, 2009

I look at the source of the article and did read it, but water from a poluted well is still water from a poluted well. CS is set up in such a way that it can embrace every from of religion on this ole' planet. The trouble is that its cultish in nature and it presently is inflitrating the church with its false doctrines and anti or extra biblical teachings. At the root it is a serious problem and will in the days ahead pose a serious challenge to the local churches. As to identity or denominational back ground as being a problem rember there were 12 tribes of Israel 13 less one. And since I have had to refute some CS doctrine up close and personal within some local churches I see it first hand as being dangerous. The devil will sound off warnings as long as those warnings make intellegent people think with thier heads and not thier hearts. King David said I will praise you O'Lord in the great assembly and in the assembly of the upright. In each and every christian church I believe God has a people who have kept themselves for God. BTW my comments were not meant to do you any personal grief or harm or distress. I did not post to attack you personally. I have the utmost respect for what I have observed in your writtings and the character in which you post but I feel very strongly about what all these soothsayers are saying of late, and that without any real knowledge of God almost like the sons of sceva who tried to drive out demon in the name of Paul's God, these false prophets are false none the less.To observe thier candor and reconize it as authoritive can and is a slippery slope to navigate, especially for the less informed amoung us.deeper sigh.......your brother in Christ daryl

sermonindex Mar 11, 2009

"where are the prophets of true christianity??"

They are giving warnings that no one will listen to. They are pleading sound doctrine that falls on deaf ears (this excludes the extreme legalists who believe that theirs in the only sound doctrine, cheapens the blood of Christ, and leaves no room for mercy).

The Bible predicts a great falling away from the faith in the last days. That's little comfort but it shouldn't come as any big revelation.

People would rather feel drunk in the spirit with uncontrollable laughter, listen to tall tales about being transported to the third heaven or chatting with Jesus while you have a bathroom shave. They want 'self-help' Gospel preaching. Anything that excludes the cross, requires personal sacrifice or a regenerate and sanctified heart to God. It's a Gospel that let's us have it both ways.... the old man and salvation, God and mammon. It's a Gospel that's been widdled down to a simple prayer.

It's a pulpit that doesn't command people to take the Gospel home with them, to spend their own time with God, to establish and maintain their own relationship with Christ. It's a pulpit that demands political activism but no prayer. It a 'Jonah pulpit' that demands condemnation of sin but offers no good news to the sinner. It's a pulpit that glories in digesting God's Word for others once a week and arrogantly believes that this is enough. It's a pulpit full of programs and events but no unction. It's a 'fun pulpit' that has preachers for your children but fails to implore the importance of the parent's part in ministering the Gospel to their kid's. It's a pulpit full of props, movie clips, sound bites, and play acting. It brings theater, drama, and entertainment from the secular stage to the pews.

Who needs sound doctrine when our attention deficit flesh is being constantly entertained, coddled, and numbed to that very double-edged thing that is designed to cut through joint and marrow, soul and spirit?

sermonindex Mar 11, 2009

Paul Washer pointed out that the leader of the Southern Baptist Convention said that if they were honest about it... less than 10% - 15% of their membership are not truly saved.

I think perhaps it wont be a collapse of the evangelical church... but rather perhaps the coming revival will chase the goats out of the barn.

Krispy

sermonindex Mar 11, 2009

"I think perhaps it wont be a collapse of the evangelical church... but rather perhaps the coming revival will chase the goats out of the barn" krispy

That's it in a nutshell right there. Well said Krispy... Amen.

God still know's what He's doing.

sermonindex Mar 11, 2009

I am sorry brother Dohzman, I am not buying that and I say that with a smile :) If a donkey stands up and tells the truth, then the truth is the truth. Krispy and ccrider are both correct in their assertions. The thrust of your reply was intimating that the writer as well as the poster believed that God's Church could be prevailed against. In that, you were simply wrong brother.

You argue that the Evangelicals are "just a little rough around the edges," and Krispy points out that Washer believes that perhaps only 10-15% are actually saved. Ravenhill once stated a number like 2%. I will be perfectly honest, I am in the Washer and Ravenhill camp when it comes to their assesments, and they both may be generous. Yet, brother, you have a right to disagree and I fully accept that. You argued forcefully that basicly everything is fine, perhaps just a little fine -tuning is needed and that ultimately this group would glorify God, in that I disagree.

Finally brother, I do not walk in the counsel of the ungodly. And no matter how "respectfully," that is stated, it is simply not true :) God bless you brother and may all of us recognize the truth. Something is either true or it is not. To recognize a truth is not to acknowledge the mouth that it comes from...........Frank

sermonindex Mar 11, 2009

Paul Washer pointed out that the leader of the Southern Baptist Convention said that if they were honest about it... less than 10% - 15% of their membership are not truly saved.

I think I said that wrong... I think it should say "less than 10% - 15% of their membership IS truly saved".

Sorry about that. I think everyone understood what I was saying.

Krispy

sermonindex Mar 11, 2009

Here is another post by the author. Its about how you can now text your decision for Christ. I am only posting it to give you an idea where this guy is coming from. Hold your bullets until you read it, that may always be good advice :)

http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/new-toys-same-problem-evangelicals-evangelism-and-the-new-altar-call#more-2897

sermonindex Mar 11, 2009

Read it... I'm sure the Holy Spirit changed some lives thru Winter Jam, and perhaps even texting. I dont think any of us would dare to say otherwise.

However, what I am struck by is man's attempt to make "getting saved" easier and easier. Yes, it is a free gift from God, and we can do nothing to earn it or deserve it... but where is the Holy Spirit's convicting power? Where is the weeping over sin? Where is the repentence?

I'm just very very bewildered by it all.

Krispy

sermonindex Mar 11, 2009

It is true the author of this article is from the Christian Science denomination which is a cult.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Science

sermonindex Mar 11, 2009

Good catch... I didnt pick up on that.

Krispy

D

dohzman Mar 11, 2009

You argued forcefully that basicly everything is fine, perhaps just a little fine -tuning is needed and that ultimately this group would glorify God, in that I disagree.

I wouldn't go that far,when it comes to eternal predictions about the souls of the sons of Adam and tacking a % about how many are eternally saved and what percent are real christians or not? I believe Ravenhill as well as Paul Washer run some risk in the presence of God on that day, at the very least a stern rebuke. We all are tempted at times to count Israel and place a number or percentage to it, but any speculation is just that, speculation, Proverbs says who can know the heart of man? It's God who ultimately knows the end from the begining. I like this passage of scripture in acts: Act 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Such as should be saved! Takes all the pressure off me, God is in control. The church of Jesus Christ was is and will be the crown jewel of our Lord, Revelation declares:Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

As to these false prophets, I don't have any need to hear from them, I can reconize the voice of "Our" shepard when it comes, and through who it comes...i.e. books , posts, letters, voice etc...
That which is true may not always be truth, I don't know if you can grasp that concept, but I can tell you a whole lot true things based on observations, surveys etc... but that doesn't nessarily mean that they are truth, for real truth rests and belongs to God and Him alone, and why would He speak through ungodly men at this juncture in life when He has declared that He'll do notthing except He first reveal it through His servants the prophets? Finially what's true today maynot be true tomarrow, that's the type of truth this man is putting forward, but real eternal truth? No.

S

swsojourner Mar 11, 2009

It is true the author of this article is from the Christian Science denomination which is a cult.

No, it is not true.

Having an article published by the Christian Science Monitor no more makes one a Christian Scientist than having an article published in the Washington Times makes one a Moonie.

sermonindex Mar 11, 2009

well... swsojourner is correct. Is here is the bio of the author:

Michael started working with students in 1976, and worked as a youth ministry specialist in four different Southern Baptist churches over a period of thirteen years. In the same time, he graduated from Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in 1984 with a Master’s degree in Theology. He took every philosophy course available and is much indebted to his time with Drs. Richard Cunningham and Timothy George. He returned for post-graduate study in 1987.
Michael and Denise have two wonderful, talented and funny children. Noel Spencer Cordle, 24, and Clay, 21. Noel, an Ohio State University graduate, married Ryan Cordle and they live and work as teachers in southeastern Kentucky. Clay and his wife Taylor live in Lexington, where Clay is finishing a degree in English at the University of Kentucky.
In 1988, Michael left youth ministry and became a pastor. Michael enjoyed preaching, but the rest of the pastorate wasn’t his game, so he soon figured out that God had something else in store. In 1992 the Spencers moved to Southeastern Kentucky, where they live and work in ministry today.
Michael started Internet Monk right after the November 2000 elections, and has been blogging ever since. Internet Monk is consistently rated in the top twenty Christian blogs in the world. It was recently voted the number 12 blog read by Christian leaders. His work has been noted on blogs around the world and published in newspapers and magazines, such as The Christian Science Monitor and Modern Reformation. He was featured in the September 21, 2006 edition of Time Magazine for his blogging on Joel Osteen and was chosen as a featured blogger by the Dallas Morning News. He has been cited and linked by Glenn Beck, CBN, GetReligion, Out of Ur, Yahoo News, Andrew Sullivan, Daily Kos, Rod Dreher,National Review Online and Real Clear Politics, among many others.
In 2008 Michael was awarded a sabbatical grant from the Louisville Institute to pursue his interest in “Contemplation and Balance in Life and Ministry.” He has been a seminar presenter and panel moderator at Cornerstone ‘08 and ‘09. He is a regular guest at Steve Brown, Etc. He has been interviewed on numerous radio programs and magazines. He also podcasts the popular Internet Monk Radio podcast.
Michael is much more opinionated on paper than in person. He describes himself as a New Covenant, Reformation-loving Christian in search of a Jesus shaped spirituality. He has great appreciation for the ancient church, missions, Christian community and theological underdogs.

Krispy