What is your biblical stance on the Trinity? Do you believe Father, Son, and Spirit are all one eternal person or do you believe Father, Son, and Spirit are 3 eternal beings operating the in the unity as One God?
I'm looking for some really good points made by either side. I know there are some christians on here that are really deep in the Word of God and I am more than interested to hear from you especially.
oh, how i have tried to search this out!
it is a mystery to me. i don't see the Spirit being praised in heaven in the book of revelation, but only the Father and the Lamb. but the way Jesus talks about the Spirit in the gospels, the Spirit is of God...but the greek word means "breath"...
to me it come to this: this is one of those areas where i'm content not to know for sure. i haven't studied this extensively, so i hope someone with a lot more knowledge will post. but that's mine. i don't really know all the certainties of Who the Spirit really is, but i know He is sent from God and that is enough for me.
This is one of the best understandings I've read yet - though I also appreciate the writings of R. A. Torrey and J. C. Ryle.
http://www.christinyou.net/pages/3divineonenesses.html
Must be read slowly though - whereas Torrey and Ryle are easier reading - and many of their's can be found here on SermonIndex - this one ties in the whole of Their/His Oneness, besides ours.
Stop trying to grasp it,God is omnipresent, He's in all of us by His Spirit, but also on the throne in heaven, all at the same time. We live in time and space, we see things in a now perspective, God sees past present and future, there is no time in heaven. Jesus is the first born of many brethren, He was always with God, and is God, but in Bethlehem, more than 2000 years ago, he took on flesh, and became the first born son, He has a separate body, seated at the right hand of the father, but all the fullness of the father dwells in Him. I can't grasp it, but God is omnipresent.
Love in Christ tom
Burn 4 Christ, I, so much want to speak to you on this
subject.
It has such depth.
But I need time,which is very tight most of the time.
Hope to get back soon on this subject.
The WORD is food...How I love it!
In Him,
Blessyou,
Elizabeth
The second one is the closest.
Burn4Christ wrote:
What is your biblical stance on the Trinity? Do you believe Father, Son, and Spirit are all one eternal person or do you believe Father, Son, and Spirit are 3 eternal beings operating the in the unity as One God?I'm looking for some really good points made by either side. I know there are some christians on here that are really deep in the Word of God and I am more than interested to hear from you especially.
Three (3) eternal beings operating the in the unity as One God.
Hello, friend. These are good and important questions. Here is a related article from elsewhere on the forum:
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The following age-old question was posed to me today,
Why would Jesus pray to God when he is God? so is it God praying to Himself? Is Christ God, or is Christ a form of God?
These are good questions! Since the time of the Apostles men have wrestled with this subject. Finally, in the sixth century AD the issue came to a head, and resulted in an overwhelming agreement in the Church called the Athanasian Creed, which I suggest every Christian read. An easier ancient creed on the Trinity is the Definition of Chalcedon (google it).
The basic idea is that one God has and does exist from eternity in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit. Again, these three Persons are one God. They are not each 1/3 of God, or three separate Gods. They are Each and One Almighty God Indivisible. Confused? You should be. If God could be fully comprehended by men, He would be an invention of man.
We derive these truths as necessary consequences of comparing scripture to scripture. If it had not been revealed by God in the Word, we would never have guessed it. There are many available resources to show the passages and explain difficulties, such as this and this, but here are two plain reasons for believing in the Trinitarian view of God.
Consider the reasoning of God in Hosea 13:4.
"I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me."
Divine logic is direct: because God alone can decisively save men, no one else is worthy of worship. Only a capable savior may be lifted up as God, and God is the only capable Savior. Then we must relive the surprise which would have overcome first-century Jews who read in John's first epistle,
"We have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world." [1 John 4:14]
If the Son is a mere finite being then this privileged title would be infinitely inappropriate. He would be like the man of lawlessness, "sitting in the temple of God, showing Himself that He is God." [2 Thes. 2:4] Yet note how many times the New Testament teaches us to look to Jesus for salvation. Clearly this is an office reserved in the Old Testament to God and is suitable to Christ only if He is Himself Deity. This is His own emphatic claim, for as we read in John 8:58, Jesus spoke of Himself in the present perfect tense, as one who is eternally existent:
"Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."
This radical claim was acknowledged by the Pharisees who took up stones to kill Jesus for blasphemy, since this was nothing else but an assertion to be essentially one with the God of Exodus 3:14 -
"And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."
If we now agree that God has existed from all time in the persons of both the Father and the Son, as well as the Spirit, then we may begin to receive the fact that these persons have always shared communication amongst themselves in a way we cannot fathom, probably because of its sublime simplicity and not some humanly contrived complexity. But even if such a glorious exchange consisted in unified agreement regarding the decrees, and a wonderfully mutual love and worship of Himself, this leaves the question of why it was necessary for God the Son Incarnate to pray?
When the Son took on flesh as Jesus Christ, he came to be the Second Adam, to stand for the Elect as their legal Representative. This meant fulfilling the perfect obedience required by God of men, in order to receive for us the heavenly reward. Therefore he lived as a perfect man, made under the law and like us in all things, sin excepted [Gal. 4:4]. Though possessing two complete natures, that of God and that of true man, He was yet one person. As God He is equal to the father. As the perfect man he humbled Himself to pray. He became the supreme pattern of humility, faith, and obedience. Just as Jesus was also baptized to fulfill obedience, so He made use of prayer as God's appointed means for delivering His will, and received answers by that means. In this way Christ is a suitable High Priest for us.
With all this in mind, I suggest you read John 17 and rejoice in our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.
i almost got caught up in a oneness or "Jesus only" type pentecostal church, first of all, in hindsight, i can say they are truly lost, their doctrine is so off, and so exclusive. that they are actually blaspehming God. i got really desperate, and i pleaded with God to show me which path to choose, i was seduced and was weak in my faith at the time. i didn't really know why i believed what i believed, i had just always gone to church and accepted the doctorine laid out in fornt of me, without ever searching the scriptures for myself. i'm so glad that God in his mercy showed me that He does consist of 3 beings, or "persons" but with out one of the 3 he would not be God, One God, 3 parts in 1
just a few things,
a monotheistic idea of God, really lessens his love, for to send your self, is much less than to send your son to die. - meditate on that,
secondly, the Godhead is something totally exclusive, to say that God was one, would be abasing him, even unto Satan, - you see, Satan cannot be 3 , which is why i think he will only imitate God when he has the antichrist and false prophet, - then he will only be imitating God, but can never be like him.
lastly, i would reccomend the message by Art Katz, called "that they may be one" this will also explain the reasons why God is who He is,
hope this helps. i's sorry i didn't have time to add scripture references
What is your biblical stance on the Trinity? Do you believe Father, Son, and Spirit are all one eternal person or do you believe Father, Son, and Spirit are 3 eternal beings operating the in the unity as One God?
I don't believe either of these. The first is classic modalism--God plays three roles--and the last one is polytheism. You can't have 3 eternal beings and only one God. God exists as a singular being. When you speak of God in the singular and refer to Him as 'He' you are totally correct. There is only one God. Now within this one being there are three eternally existing persons.
Blessings,
Jeremy Hulsey
Stop trying to grasp it,God is omnipresent, He's in all of us by His Spirit, but also on the throne in heaven, all at the same time. We live in time and space, we see things in a now perspective, God sees past present and future, there is no time in heaven.
thomasm,
You stopped a little short with God's omnipresence. I know this is a little off topic but try to wrap your mind around this:
God's omnipresence doesn't stop at filling space (He's everywhere at once) but He fills eternity (He's also at every 'time' at once). This means that He doesn't just see the future, He's already there. He already exists 2000yrs from now and he's still present 2000yrs ago.
Blessings,
Jeremy Hulsey
What's the diference?hulsey wrote:...You can't have 3 eternal beings and only one God...
...Now within this one being there are three eternally existing persons.
Quote:
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Stop trying to grasp it,God is omnipresent, He's in all of us by His Spirit, but also on the throne in heaven, all at the same time. We live in time and space, we see things in a now perspective, God sees past present and future, there is no time in heaven.
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thomasm,
You stopped a little short with God's omnipresence. I know this is a little off topic but try to wrap your mind around this:
God's omnipresence doesn't stop at filling space (He's everywhere at once) but He fills eternity (He's also at every 'time' at once). This means that He doesn't just see the future, He's already there. He already exists 2000yrs from now and he's still present 2000yrs ago.
Blessings,
Jeremy Hulsey
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Yes I did stop short, I didn't want to get off subject. I do agree with you brother.
If we really understood this , it wound stop a lot of debates. God is always drawing us onto HIMSELF, by HIS presence.
love in CHRIST tom
Goodmorning,
Consitering:
First man Adam:Gen.2:7 God took OF the Earth(dust)and made man.
Note:God took of the earth,(not all the earth)
Second man Adam:Lk.1:35 (the Angel of the Lord
was telling Mary what was going to take place
with her)`The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee,
and the the power of the Highest shall OVERSHADOW
thee;therefore`that Holy thing(Word/Spirit/Seed)
which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.( Jesus was part earth[y](from his mother Mary) and part Spirit.
We all know:
God is Spirit
He is Invisable(when we SEE God, it meams the WORD/scripture is opened up to us
The WORD is God(Jn.1:1)
He is He who Speaketh..The I AM.
God Who is (Spirit)is everywhere ..(Acts 17:27)Paul says He is not far from everyone of us.
God took OF His Spirit and Spoke it into Marys womb ,The WORD was made FLESH(Jn.1:14)
When God in the begining was saying `Let US make
man' (Gen.1:26) I believe He was talking to the Word/Spirit( which are ONE)
It is deep.Please understand what I am saying.
In His Great love
Elizabeth
What's the diference?
It's very subtle. We all exist as a person within a being. That is a person existing in a human being. There are 6 billion human beings alive today. God however has only one being but within that one being there are three persons. The reason you can have more than one human being and only one 'God' being is that humans are finite where God is infinite.
Every person we've ever known has been one person in one being but that does not mean that it's impossible for one being to have three persons. Or for one person to have two beings (Jesus Christ is both God and human).
Within the Father is all the fullness of the one being of God. In other words the Son and the Spirit are not required to complete the full divity of the Father. Or to put it another way; if the Father were present and the Son and the Spirit were not, all of God is there and part of Him is not missing (This is only hypothetical speech because to go deeper into the subject you'll find I believe that where One is the others are always present.) The same is true of the Son and the Spirit. Now they are all this same being. This is what I mean by there can only be one being. However, there are three persons. The Father is the person of the Father which is not the Son or the Spirit and the Son is the Son which is not the Father or the Spirit etc.
Blessings,
Jeremy Hulsey
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