Social Security, Submission, Sin

There is a brother in our fellowship who has born good fruit over the years, sought the Lord, and been a good influence on many, etc... Over the last few years, he has been thinking much about the verse: "You are bought with a price, do not be the servants of men." God has taught him some true things in regard to the fear of man, the love of money, and some other issues.

There are large groups of people taking on that conviction. I know from listening to them on radio sometimes that there isn't much you can say to change their convictions.

The only thing you can do is ask him if he's Truly Sure that he's ready to possibly go to jail for these convictions of his. If he says yes - what more can you say?

Sometimes just talking Jesus with someone who you say was/is a good brother is enough.

Everyone has convictions of one sort of another. Other than telling him the story about the tax money that Jesus provided in the mouth of that fish is about all you can do.
Anything more will put a tension between you that may not be worth it. He'll need a friend someday - just as actually we all will.

A man's convictions are not worth spitting over.
I'd just continue to love him as you have. We'll all need that love from each other one day, regardless of whether we're good law abiding citizens or not.

LORD Bless you Robert.

He has gotten some very strange convictions about some things lately, however. He feels like the social security number is the mark of the beast or something very close, so he will not get a SSN. Because of this, he can't get a driver's license. He also refuses to pay taxes on the grounds that the "law" (the constitution) doesn't require it.

Tell him the story about Jesus and Peter having to pay their taxes so not to offend worldly governments. Matthew 17:25 26 27 "Jesus asked him, "What do you think, Simon? From whom do the kings of the world collect fees or taxes? Is it from their family members or from other people?" "From other people," Peter answered. Jesus said to him, "Then the family members are exempt." "Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee."

Jesus and Peter paid their taxes so they wouldn't offend the government. It wouldn't look good for the feds to have barged through the crowd to be called in by the IRS on tax evasion. He knew that God set up the Roman government. He came not to fight the Romans, He came to set men free from the bondage of sin and death. He didn't come to stand in the street with a placard "Stop Abortion", "Death to Sodomites". That is the worlds solution, and He certainly was not of the Earth, but rather, "the LORD from heaven".

For the record, the name of Jesus was put into the system of that day, He paid His taxes. They would have wanted His name, His ancestral birthplace, etc.. No different then today. If Jesus was concerned about not offending the government regarding taxes, then we should take heed ourselves.

Jesus said to go to the sea to get this money. Jesus likens the sea as the world. Jesus likens fish unto men. Peter had to toil to get the fish. We are to go into the world, work, and obtain the money to pay the IRS.

We are not here to draw attention unto ourselves. We are here to point out that Jesus is the star attraction, not by what this man is doing.

If you can't reason with him, I would leave him alone and let God deal with him, praying for him. If what he says is from God, Good! But if it is not, you'll see the fruit of that as well.

What makes it difficult to talk to these folks is that they will rattle off "law" to you and prove to you that all of these things are "unconstitutional" and the SS # is being misused from it's initial purpose, etc. etc. and they'll show you where the law shows they're right - but the only way to get any of them to change their mind is to show them that we have NO "rights" under GOD and you can only show them that through the Bible.
They'll quote the constitution and other things to you as if it IS the Bible.
There are no Inalienable "rights" given by GOD - to quote the "bill of rights" - GOD gives and GOD takes away. If you read the "bill of rights" it's not really "Biblical" - but these guys believe it is.
That's why unless this person sees things Biblically and gets away from reading what they 'think' are "their rights" there's little chance of persuading him.
I've listened to them rattle off one bill number after another and SS laws, IRS laws, etc. etc. and they're all so accurate in what they're saying but not Biblically.

He has to determine that if he gets arrested - it should be for being "a Christian Only" and not for "the bill of rights" or any other provisions in the SS or IRS flaws they think they've found.

We should only be arrested for being Christians - if that day comes and we will pray for this brother that he'll see that. That he'll see that GOD does not give "rights" for freedom, or the pursuit of happiness or property ownership nor gun ownership etc. etc. - that was a humanist piece of paper. Nice while it lasts but humanist just the same and not worth leaving your family for when they take you away to prison for trying to protect your "rights".

That's why I posted what I did up top. Whoever he's following has all the laws and bill of rights, etc., down to a science and it's very difficult to show them that it's not from GOD. That all the laws that they feel back them - were not written by GOD but by humanists.

They have their own pastor's teaching them on the internet about Romans 13 as well, but not as any of us would teach it. All this stuff is on-line. It takes a lot of research to find where they get all their beliefs from, but basically they are using our founding father's writings and those originally used when the SS and IRS was started... nevertheless - they'll go to jail - like Erwin Schiff did. Just read Ron Paul's Forum someday to see how far folks think they should go to defend what they say is the law of this land from the "founding fathers" and not THE Father.
Sad, sad subject Robert. Best to love your friend back to the Bible alone.
If we live to see antiChrist - none of this will matter anyway - we'll all be criminals - so best to love him back to the Word of God alone. I know Romans 13 doesn't work on these guys - they'll just keep quoting "law #'s" to you and showing you where they are 'not' breaking any laws but are "upholding" them.

I wouldn't 'rat' on a Brother neither. I feel that needs to be said as well - just because someone showed him a bunch of 'patriot / founding fathers' material, etc.

Good time for all to read some of Richard Wurmbrand's books - of how some 'christians' would turn-in Christians over to the state.
Jesus said that practice would happen world-wide one day and I wonder how close some of us have come to that already.

Something to pray about. When do we do such a thing - and should we draw that line in the sand on that decision now?

Indeed we are grateful for these privileges we've had written into our Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

I probably didn't word my thoughts as well as I would have liked to.

"The LORD giveth and the LORD taketh away" - it seems that these that they call "rights" are being stripped away, little by little, but if we find ourselves going too far in demanding that they stay as they were originally written and carried forth "for our own period of time here", we may find ourselves fighting GOD.

As they say - we get the type government that we morally deserve? Or are we just in those "last days"?