The fact on the rapture scripture interprets scriptures

I had always been taught and believed in a pre-trib. rapture up until just recently .The change began when God told me I needed to pray more. The 3rd day about 45 min. into prayer God began to speak to me about the deception in the church. The spirit was telling me that the spirit of Babylon was in many churches in America :( Rev. 18:3-4),” For all the nations have drunk the maddening wine of her adulteries. The kings of the Earth committed adultery with her, and the merchants of the Earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries. 4 Then I heard another voice from heaven saying:” come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues! The burden was so great I could not bear it; it was like the spiritual wind had been sucked out of me. Then God began to lead me threw end time prophecy and began to show me the events, kingdoms, and leaders unfolding right in front of our eyes. The most alarming part about this whole thing was the over whelming sense that the church was not ready for what was about to happen. As God lead me threw my studies of end time prophecies and current events I began to notice there was no clear promise of being pulled out before trib. in fact there were many very clear warnings of going threw this time. Jesus thought it was so important that in Matt. there are 3 whole chapters devoted to the topic of end times. For instance
Matt. 10:21-22 21"Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. 22All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.
This scripter is clearly the hour of testing of tribulation. Jesus clearly tells us in v.22,”He who stands firm until the end shall be saved.”

This is not doom and gloom it is the Christian life. In surrender we find freedom, joy, rest and revelation,” the abundant life Jesus came to give.” How much do we really trust Jesus?
John 8:31-32
"If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32Then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free."
If it was important for Peter to know that Jesus was going to require him to walk threw martyrum. Then I believe it is important for us to know if the Lord is going to require us to go threw tribulations. Suppose you believe in a pre-trib. rapture and you find your self in the middle of the most distressful time in history and you are told to take the mark or you or your child’s life will be required. During that moment there can be no questions because if you were wrong in that area you could be wrong in others. This would bring doubt in one of the hardest moments of you life. This is why this issue is very important to me. Peter tells us that false teaching is destructive in 2 Peter 2:1 it has been the devil’s agenda to twist God’s truths and deceive God’s people sense the beginning. All we have to do to see the destructive nature of heresy is look at the fall of man. God has put a burden on my heart to make sure it doesn’t happen at the end also. I hope you see the motivation of my heart,” Love always protects.” John 16:1 Jesus says, “All this I have told you so you will not go astray.
Matthew 24:9-13 (New International Version)
9"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Notice it says many will turn away. Why? Because they were not ready, their faith was shaken; they did not count the cost. Why? Because they thought they would escape the time of tribulations. Also note the love of most will grow cold. If we have not reckoned with this fact we may not have the faith to keep our hearts right, like Steven in Acts 7:60,”Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” Now, once again we see the quote,” but he who stands firm until the end will be saved.”

There are many scriptures to study on this subject and I highly recommend studding this subject in depth. For the sake of time I am now going to shift gears to pinpoint chronological order of what people call the rapture.
The pre-trb rapture was not taught for 1800 years after the death of Christ.

Margaret McDonald, a 15 year old Scottish girl, and member of Edward Irving's congregation, had a
Vision in early 1830 that included a Secret Rapture of believers before the appearance of the Antichrist.
She informed Irving of her visions by letter. Irving then attended the prophecy conferences that began in
Dublin Ireland in 1830 at Powerscourt Castle, where he promoted both Futurism and a Secret Rapture.
John Nelson Darby (1800–1882), a Church of Ireland clergyman, later with the Plymouth Brethren, also
Promoted Futurism and a secret rapture. Darby attended the series of meetings on Bible Prophecy that
Began in 1830 at Powers court, Ireland, and at these conferences Darby apparently learned about the
Secret rapture as revealed by vision to Margaret McDonald and promoted by Edward Irving, and he
Soon visited Margaret MacDonald at her home in Port Glasgow, Scotland. Darby later visited America
Several times between 1859 and 1874, where his Futurist theology was readily accepted.
Cyrus Ingerson Scofield (1843‐1921), greatly influenced by the writings of J. N. Darby, incorporated
Futurism in the notes of his Scofield Reference Bible. First published by Oxford University Press in 1909,
One million copies were printed by 1930. The Scofield Bible was instrumental in firmly establishing the
Futurist interpretation in the Protestant Bible schools of the United States in the 20th century.

Scripture interprets scripture. So we are going to use something I like to call the fence post method that means we are going to use scriptures that talk about the same thing put them together in a manner where they line up with one another. This is an easy way to get the correct interpretation of scripture. There are three things that will give us the ability to identify a time line of the rapture. The 1st is the sun being darkened and the moon turning to blood, the 2nd is the loud command and last trumpet call, and the dead in Christ rising from the dead,

1 Matt.24:29-31
29"Immediately after the distress of those days
”‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'[A]
30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Note v.29 says immediately after the distress of those days putting this event at the end of tribulations. Note the sun and the moon are also listed to be after the distress of those days in Mark 13:24 Luke 21:24-25 and in Rev. 6:11-12 in all of these scriptures it shows us after the3 ½ years of persecution, then the sun and the moon, then Christ will appear and gather his people .A good study note is the 6th seal, trumpet, and bowl are all chronologically at the end of tribulations. The 7th of all three are the last judgment executed by Jesus at Armageddon. The end of the 31/2 years of persecution, the 2nd coming of Christ and the gathering of the elect, 2 witnesses or the resurrection of the saints show us the seals trumpets and bowls run concurrently or at the same time.

Mark 13:23-27 (New International Version)
23So be on your guard; I have told you everything ahead of time.
24"But in those days, following that distress,
”‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
25the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'[A]
26"At that time men will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.
Luke 21:24-28
24They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
25"There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. 26Men will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. 27At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near."
Revelation 6:9-7:10
9When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" 11Then each of them was given a white robe and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed.
12I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. 14The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.
15Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and every free man hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16They called to the mountains and the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?"
Revelation 7
144,000 Sealed
1After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. 2Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3"Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God." 4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
5From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
6from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
7from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,
from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
8from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,
from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,
from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.
The Great Multitude in White Robes
9After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10And they cried out in a loud voice:
"Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb."

We have already heard the terms gather, a loud command and a trumpet call and the coming of the Lord. Let us look at the trumpet call and commanded. In 1st Corinthians 15:49-54 Paul tells us the rapture happens at the last trumpet call. Paul also gives us a lot of detail on the purpose of this event,

1 Corinthians 13:10
but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.

When we see Jesus His appearance changes us. We receive our glorified bodies.

1 Corinthians 15:49-54 (New International Version)
49And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we[a] bear the likeness of the man from heaven.
50I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, and then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."[b]
There are two things in this section of scripture that are time line identifiers :( The last trumpet and the dead will be raised imperishable.) Keep in mind it list the dead first then us afterwards this is important for time line. Before we go to revelations let’s look at 1 Thess.4:15-17.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 (New International Version)
15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

I want you to note Paul emphasis is on we who are still alive at the coming of the Lord will certainly not precede those who are dead and that Paul said they got this information from Jesus Himself. Now let’s look at Rev.11:11-15 for the last trumpet and Rev. 20:4-6 for the resurrection of the saints.
Revelation 11:10-15 (New International Version)
10The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.
11But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them. 12Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.
13At that very hour there was a severe earthquake and a tenth of the city collapsed. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the survivors were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14The second woe has passed; the third woe is coming soon.
The Seventh Trumpet
15The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ,
and he will reign for ever and ever."

Not only is the 7th trumpet at the end of tribulations but another time identifying fact is that the two prophets are given power to prophesy the whole time the saints are persecuted according to Rev.11:2-3 The 31/2 years definitely puts the rapture at the end of trib. We also see the 2 witnesses or the 2 prophets, the saints and the elect all go at the same time. The events all match perfectly.
Revelation 11:2-3 (New International Version)
2But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. 3And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth."

Remember Thess. 4:15-17 and 1 Cor. 15:49-54 both said the dead in Christ would raise first. Let’s see if we can find the dead rising Rev.20:4-6
Revelation 20:4-6 (New International Version)
4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
About half way threw v.4 you see the souls of those who had been for the testimony of Jesus .So the soul are in heaven but it says they are raised to life and in v. 5 it says this is the first resurrection. They were given their immortal bodies and after that so shall we who are still alive be given our immortal bodies. Then we will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air .This is when Christ is coming down to throw the false prophet and antichrist in the lake of fire.” The 7th judgment, the END.”

All of Rev. is written to the churches and for the churches.
Revelation 22:16 (New International Version)
16"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you[a] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."
I think we would do well to take it to heart
.
Rev.1:3 blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.
John 21:17-19 (New International Version)
17 The third time he said to him, "Simon son of John, do you love me?"
Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, "Do you love me?" He said, "Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you."
Jesus said, "Feed my sheep. 18 I tell you the truth, when you were younger you dressed yourself and went where you wanted; but when you are old you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go." 19Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God. Then he said to him, "Follow me!"
In His service. Ezekiel 33:6

One of the biggest problems I have a pre. Trib. rapture is it was never taught until 1830 by a 15 year old girl and it was never taught by any of the apostles or any one else for 1800 years after Jesus’ death. So after extensive study on my own not listening to some one else’s interpretation but listening to the Holy Spirit. The reason I say that is if some one is taught wrong and they teach another they both fall in a ditch.
1 John 2:27
27As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

The reason I changed my stance from pre. Trib. to post trib. The clear and transparent statements made by Jesus that we would be handed over to be persecuted and put to death .the many times Jesus said he who enders until the end. Some very clear statements by Paul about us certainly not preceding the dead in Christ. Many statements saying this would happen at the second coming that the bible clearly states is after the trib. persecution of the saints. No where can I find any clear scripture about being spared persecution. Infact bible promises persecution.

You see the whole problem was I just took some one else’s interpretation on this mater .When I began to study it out on my own I saw clearly there was no pre. Trib. rapture. Then when I studied the history I found out it was accepted and printed in the Snowfield reference bible then was widely accepted in protestant seminary in America from 1906-1930 ,1,000,000 copies were printed by Oxford University. This is some info. On some of the people who worked with that project and their change of mind.

SPIRITUAL PREPAREDNESS
I am sure that with the true child of God it is not a question of preference but of truth. Does God’s Word say so? Why then rebel? Is not His plan best? Besides, what difference does it make so long as we are ready? "Spiritual Preparedness" is the only important factor after all.
I wonder if we have been lulling the Church into a false security. Can it be that we have been preaching an easy escape? Ought we to prepare the Church for the greatest of all ordeals? Should not our teaching harden her for the fires of the Tribulation? What kind of soldiers are we training? I am afraid that we have been very guilty and that God will certainly hold us responsible for the type of Christian our preaching is producing. We need men and women today of the martyr spirit. The test of the Inquisition is coming again and woe betide the pre-millennialists who are not ready. The Church must be purified in the fires of persecution.
Naturally, I thought of 2 Thessalonians 2:7: "he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way". But then I learned from the Greek that the second "he" is the Antichrist, and that the Greek does not say "taken out of the way," but "revealed in the midst," or, "born out of the midst." In other words, lawlessness will be restrained until the appointed time for the lawless one, the Antichrist, to appear. There is no mention of the Holy Spirit at all. That is a Scofield Bible assumption. The Holy Spirit and the Church remain to the end of the Age.
VOICES OF OTHERS
Now if I were to go into the subject in detail and attempt to deal with the numerous passages, both for and against, I would simply be overlapping. Others have already done this most ably, far better than I can, and so, if you are really interested, I would suggest that you secure the books that have been written on the subject and study them prayerfully and with an open mind before taking sides. A great many have been written by men on both sides of the Atlantic. The following are among the best that have been published in Great Britain and you may procure most of them from THE SOVEREIGN GRACE ADVENT TESTIMONY, I DONALD WAY, CHELMSFORD, ESSEX, CM2 9JB, the organization that publishes the Post-Tribulation magazine Watching and Waiting, edited by James Payne.
Here are the books:
Will the Church Escape the Great Tribulation? (by Edmund Shackleton); Christ’s Second Coming (by S. P. Tregelles) [these two are scarce]; Our Lord Cometh (by W. J. Rowlands); The Coming of the Son of Man (by Rev. E. J. Poole-Connor); The Second Advent of our Lord, Not Secret, but in Manifested Glory (by B. W. Newton); One Second Coming of Christ (by W. J. Rowlands); The First Resurrection (by S. P. Tregelles); Touching the Coming of the Lord (by Dan Crawford); The Saints’ Rest and Rapture (by Frank H. White); The Second Coming of Christ (by George Muller). Send for their catalogue.
The following have been published in North America: The Blessed Hope (by Professor George E. Ladd). Dr. Ladd teaches in Fuller Theological Seminary, Pasadena. It is a masterly volume and it goes into both the history and doctrine of both the Pre-Tribulation and the Post-Tribulation Advent. "Will Christ’s Coming he in two stages?" (by Norman F. Douty).
I have a list of nearly seventy Bible Teachers who have proclaimed this view of the Return of Christ. Among them, in addition to those who have written the above books, there are such names as W. J. Erdman, Charles R. Erdman. Dr. Campbell Morgan, Bishop Frank Houghton, Dr. A. B. Simpson, Dr. J. W. Thirtle, Dr. Charles T. Cook, Alexander Reese, Dr. Horatius Bonar, Dr. Adolph Saphir, Henry Varley, Dr. Nathaniel West, David Baron, H. W. Soltau, Dr. Bergin, Dr. Harold J. Ockenga, and many others. To ignore the convictions of such spiritual leaders is impossible. Deference must be given to their views
"For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?" - 1 Corinthians 14:8

THE TRUTH OR CONJECTURE: YOU DECIDE

In this cursory article we have briefly examined how the pretribulation theory requires 1) a coming, 2) a rapture and 3) a resurrection all prior to the prescribed time clearly set forth in the Holy Scriptures. It is up to pretribulationists to decide whether or not they are going to continue attempting to squeeze the Word of God through the filter of prejudicial conjecture or simply believe the Bible for what it says. In the words of the late W.J. Erdman, the third pastor of Moody Church in Chicago who was once a pretribulationist and an editor of the Scofield Reference Bible before a "further searching of the Scriptures" convinced him otherwise: "Better the disappointment of truth than the fair but false promises of error."

"Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." (2 Timothy 2:15)

THE GREAT EXPECTATION

I find it extraordinary that throughout the Bible there is only one hope and one glorious coming ever expected at the end of the age, whether it be from the scroll of the prophet Isaiah to the Book of the Revelation of John, from the Olivet Discourse to the angelic announcement after the ascension, or from Enoch the seventh from Adam to the letters of the dear Apostle Paul. There is but one event described, and only one event ever anticipated. That one event is our blessed hope, the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

May we never lose sight of the Church's great expectation.

Written by Eli Brayley
"And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come." - 1 Thessalonians 1:10

One of the common arguments used to support a pretribulational rapture is the belief that since the Bible says God's people are not appointed unto wrath (1 Thessalonians 1:10, 5:9) then the Church will therefore not go through the great tribulation, which, they claim, is characterized by the pouring out of the wrath of God (Revelation 15:1, 16:1). If God pours His wrath out upon the world during the final years of mankind, then the Church cannot be there. This reasoning has influenced many Christians into a false hope, for the argument is based upon a complete misunderstanding of the Greek language and the nature of the wrath of God.

TWO KINDS OF WRATH

It all sounds good until a more careful examination of the Greek word for 'wrath' is accomplished. In the New Testament, there are two distinct Greek words for our English word 'wrath': orge and thumos, just like there are different Greek words for our English word 'love'. Both words for 'wrath' have a very distinct meaning, and must not be confused with each other.

-Orge is defined as judiciary wrath, or retributive wrath, being punishment for crimes as implemented by a judge.

-Thumos is defined as passionate anger that flares up but after subsides.

An example of the word thumos can be found in Galatians 5 verse 20, "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath [thumos], strife, seditions, heresies..." Paul is not speaking about justice, but passionate rage. Another example is in Acts 19:28, "And when they heard these sayings, they were full of wrath [thumos], and cried out, saying, Great is Diana of the Ephesians." Notice that the wrath here spoken is not a justifiable wrath against transgression, but the flaring up of anger that comes from passionate emotion. When someone says they have a bad temper, they are talking about this thumos wrath, not the retributive wrath of calculated justice. The word thumos is only found 18 times in the New Testament and always describes this passionate type of wrath.

Orge wrath can be clearly seen in Romans 2:5-6, "But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath [orge] against the day of wrath [orge] and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds." Here the wrath of God is portrayed as judiciary righteous judgment against the ungodly. Orge wrath is directly connected to transgressing the law of God: "Because the law worketh wrath [orge]: for where no law is, there is no transgression." (Romans 4:15) Sin deserves punishment, and that punishment is the orge wrath of God. The word orge is used 36 times in the New Testament and virtually always refers to the righteous legal judgment of God.

WHICH WRATH?

Now let us return to our immediate question. The pretribulationists claim that since God's people are not appointed unto wrath, we shall not experience the wrath of God poured out upon the world during the great tribulation as described in Revelation 15:1 and 16:1. With our new knowledge of Greek terminology, let's examine the key passages of Scripture used in their argument:

1 Thessalonians 1:10 - "And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come." The word 'wrath' here is orge, the judiciary judgment of God against sin. Praise God that we are indeed saved through the Blood of Christ from the retributive wrath of God when His righteous judgments shall be revealed! "Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath [orge] through him." (Romans 5:9) Hallelujah! We are justified in His sight!

1 Thessalonians 5:9 - "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ." Again, the word used here is orge. Like in the verse above, Jesus has redeemed us from the punishment we deserved for our transgressions against the law of God! "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us." (Galatians 3:13) Through our faith in what Christ has done we shall obtain salvation from the wages of sin. As John the Baptist said, "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath [orge] of God abideth on him." (John 3:36)

Revelation 15:1 - "And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God." Proceeding from the beginning of chapter 15 to the end of chapter 16, the vials of wrath are poured out upon the earth by the seven angels of God. Since this takes place before Jesus returns and during the great tribulation, the pretribulationists assert that the Church cannot be present, for they are not appointed unto orge wrath. What they have failed to see is that the word 'wrath' used here and throughout these two chapters is not orge wrath at all, but thumos wrath, the hot anger of God being demonstrated against a wicked world PRIOR TO the revelation of Jesus Christ, when He at last comes to tread "the winepress of the fierceness and wrath [orge] of Almighty God." (Revelation 19:15) When Jesus comes He shall judge the earth for all it's wickedness, bringing with Him the righteous retributive judgment of God against His enemies. He shall separate the wheat and the tares, and cast all those who obeyed not the Gospel into the Lake of Fire which burns for ever and ever. That, my dear readers, is the true orge wrath of God, of which we are saved from, and of which we are not appointed to. The thumos wrath of God is something entirely different.

FURTHER ANALYSIS

God's wrath has been displayed all throughout history and will again be unleashed upon a wicked God-hating world in the last days; this is not surprising. But we are not to confuse God's thumos wrath with His orge wrath. When the Lord poured out the plagues upon Egypt in the days of Moses and Aaron, that was His thumos wrath; the passionate anger of the Lord expressed against that hardhearted and tyrannical nation, who oppressed His beloved people for 400 years. We must also remember that when God was pouring out the plagues upon Egypt, the children of Israel were preserved safely throughout it all. Likewise, during the great tribulation when the vials are poured out upon the earth, God's people will be protected safely throughout it all. When God closed the Red Sea over top of the pursuing Egyptian army, that was His thumos wrath bringing an end to the captivity of Israel. The Egyptians experienced God's thumos wrath when the waters toppled over them, but they experienced God's orge wrath when they lifted up their eyes in hell. In the same way, this sinful world will undergo God's thumos wrath against it during the great tribulation, and also when Jesus Christ physically destroys them at His coming, but this is nothing to be compared with the orge wrath men will experience when Jesus Christ sits upon the throne of eternal judgment. Oh Lord, God save us from that dreadful day!

I did not think I was being rude. Some of the stuff I posted was copied from another article, but I thought it was good info. Sorry if I came across wrong my intention was to educate and to be educated. I am also committed to walking in our Lords command to love and love is definitely not rude, I am very zealous about following our Lord in love and this leads me to the next purpose of posting this, love always protects. I believe pre . trib. is teaching escapism and is doing great harm to the body of Christ. Do we really believe that God would require all these new born; baby Christians to walk threw the hardest time in history with out any mature leadership? I believe this view point is a selfish view point and is contradictory to God’s nature which is love and love is never self seeking .I believe a pri .trib. view point is motivated in self preservation which is in direct conflict to the Lord’s command because there is no greater love than to lay ones life down for another. I know I would not have made it in tribulations as a new believer, but 18 years of being saved I am much more mature. I know nothing will shake me because love always perseveres, that’s why love never fails because love never gives up. So after many years of stumbling and getting back up, walking through the fire of tribulation of life and relationship. Growing from faith to faith I can now say I know I will trust God threw any situation. Trust or faith comes from knowing someone for a long time and we build trust or go from faith to faith. God has always asked mature believers to go threw the hard test. I for one am signed up to help lead this multitude of new believers threw the tribulations. Love never fails. No greater love does a man have than he lay down his life for his friends.

"For if the trumpet gives an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?" - 1 Corinthians 14:8

Joshua 1
6 "Be strong and courageous, because you will lead these people to inherit the land I swore to their forefathers to give them. 7 Be strong and very courageous. Be careful to obey all the law my servant Moses gave you; do not turn from it to the right or to the left, that you may be successful wherever you go. 8 Do not let this Book of the Law depart from your mouth; meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do everything written in it. Then you will be prosperous and successful. 9 Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be terrified; do not be discouraged, for the LORD your God will be with you wherever you go."

John 13:1
[Jesus Washes His Disciples' Feet] it was just before the Passover Feast. Jesus knew that the time had come for him to leave this world and go to the Father. Having loved his own who were in the world, he now showed them the full extent of his love.

Daniel 11:33-35
33 "Those who are wise will instruct many, though for a time they will fall by the sword or be burned or captured or plundered. 34 When they fall, they will receive a little help, and many who are not sincere will join them. 35 Some of the wise will stumble, so that they may be refined, purified and made spotless until the TIME OF THE END, for it will still come at the appointed time.
Christians are made for hard times. All of the apostles when they reached maturity laid their lives down. Not immature Christians but mature Christians. The bible tells us that this glorified God. I know people don’t want to hear this. It takes great faith to believe God for strength to walk threw the tribulation. I would rather us count the cost now than be caught off guard later.\t

17 The third time he said to him, "Simon son of John, do you love me?"
Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, "Do you love me?" He said, "Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you."
Jesus said, "Feed my sheep. 18 I tell you the truth, when you were younger you dressed yourself and went where you wanted; but when you are old you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go." 19Jesus said this to indicate the kind of DEATH by which Peter would GLORIFY God. Then he said to him, "FOLLOW ME!"
Revelation 12:11
11They overcame him
by the blood of the Lamb
and by the word of their testimony;
they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death.

The church that shrinks back from death will not overcome.

Revelation 21:7-8 (New International Version)
HE WHO OVER COMES will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8BUT THE COWARDLY AND THE UNBELEAVING, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
My intention is not to be rude but I along with a lot of other pastors an over whelming since that the church is not ready and judgment must come according to the word.

Ezekiel :14
1 Some of the elders of Israel came to me and sat down in front of me. 2 Then the word of the LORD came to me: 3 "Son of man, these men have set up idols in their hearts and put wicked stumbling blocks before their faces. Should I let them inquire of me at all? 4 Therefore speak to them and tell them, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: When any Israelite sets up idols in his heart and puts a wicked stumbling block before his face and then goes to a prophet, I the LORD will answer him myself in keeping with his great idolatry. 5 I will do this to recapture the hearts of the people of Israel, who have all deserted me for their idols.'
6 "Therefore say to the house of Israel, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Repent! Turn from your idols and renounce all your detestable practices!
7 " 'When any Israelite or any alien living in Israel separates himself from me and sets up idols in his heart and puts a wicked stumbling block before his face and then goes to a prophet to inquire of me, I the LORD will answer him myself. 8 I will set my face against that man and make him an example and a byword. I will cut him off from my people. Then you will know that I am the LORD.
9 " 'And if the prophet is enticed to utter a prophecy, I the LORD have enticed that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand against him and destroy him from among my people Israel. 10 They will bear their guilt—the prophet will be as guilty as the one who consults him. 11 Then the people of Israel will no longer stray from me, nor will they defile themselves anymore with all their sins. They will be my people, and I will be their God, declares the Sovereign LORD.' "
Judgment Inescapable
12 The word of the LORD came to me: 13 "Son of man, if a country sins against me by being unfaithful and I stretch out my hand against it to cut off its food supply and send famine upon it and kill its men and their animals, 14 even if these three men—Noah, Daniel [a] and Job—were in it, they could save only themselves by their righteousness, declares the Sovereign LORD.
15 "Or if I send wild beasts through that country and they leave it childless and it becomes desolate so that no one can pass through it because of the beasts, 16 as surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, even if these three men were in it, they could not save their own sons or daughters. They alone would be saved, but the land would be desolate.
17 "Or if I bring a sword against that country and say, 'Let the sword pass throughout the land,' and I kill its men and their animals, 18 as surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, even if these three men were in it, they could not save their own sons or daughters. They alone would be saved.
19 "Or if I send a plague into that land and pour out my wrath upon it through bloodshed, killing its men and their animals, 20 as surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, even if Noah, Daniel and Job were in it, they could save neither son nor daughter. They would save only themselves by their righteousness.
21 "For this is what the Sovereign LORD says: How much worse will it be when I send against Jerusalem my four dreadful judgments—sword and famine and wild beasts and plague—to kill its men and their animals! 22 Yet there will be some survivors—sons and daughters who will be brought out of it. They will come to you, and when you see their conduct and their actions, you will be consoled regarding the disaster I have brought upon Jerusalem—every disaster I have brought upon it. 23 You will be consoled when you see their conduct and their actions, for you will know that I have done nothing in it without CAUSE, declares the Sovereign LORD."

PEOPLE GET READY IN LOVE HIS SERVENT!!!!!!!

One of the biggest problems I have a pre. Trib. rapture is it was never taught until 1830 by a 15 year old girl and it was never taught by any of the apostles or any one else for 1800 years after Jesus’ death.

I was going to say... this is absolutely untrue, and has been debunked over and over again. Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine springs up repeatidly all down thru church history, and greater minds than mine have documented this fact.

There are a lot of things being repeated in the church today that are baseless and lies. Just look at some of the ridiculous things that are thrown around by BOTH sides of the Bible version issue.

Just because we heard someone prominent say something, it doesn't mean that the child of God should just accept it.

Trust no one. Thats always been my motto when it comes to doctrine. Always weigh it against scripture.

" The Church must be purified in the fires of persecution."

This smacks of a Catholic line of thought. We must proove ourselves worthy... uh, no we don't. We can never be worthy. I am righteous right now, but not by anything I have done... but by His blood covering of my sin. It is Christ who is righteous in me.

Krispy

Christinyou wrote:
I see no tribulation in relation to Christ and His Church, His Bride. He already took all our stripes on Himself and has already taken death upon Himself that we might live, not in persecution from the Father but in Love and new life unto God. We learn obedience by the things we suffer from the Father now, not future persecution and tribulation. We are not son's if we are spared discipline now, that He might present us to Himself, we might be presented to Jesus Christ as His Bride without spot or wrinkle. How are we to live now?

Philip, how is it that you feel that we will not see persecution when a great number in this world have suffered under it from the beginning?

Persecution does not have to be "discipline" - but The WORD does speak of being "tried" -

[b]Dan 11:35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

Dan 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Rev 20:4-6 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. [/b]

If you can't preach that in China or anywhere else that they are persecuting Christians & tribulation is the Saint's daily lot now, then it shouldn't be preached anywhere, as Nee had said as well.

We're One Body with "them" as well.

Hi Chris.

You said: [i]"I agree that there has always been persecution and tribulation."[/i]

I was replying to Philip's post here -

Jesus-is-GOD wrote:

Christinyou wrote:
I see no tribulation in relation to Christ and His Church, His Bride. He already took all our stripes on Himself and has already taken death upon Himself that we might live, not in persecution from the Father but in Love and new life unto God. We learn obedience by the things we suffer from the Father now, not future persecution and tribulation. We are not son's if we are spared discipline now, that He might present us to Himself, we might be presented to Jesus Christ as His Bride without spot or wrinkle. How are we to live now?

Philip, how is it that you feel that we will not see persecution when a great number in this world have suffered under it from the beginning?

Persecution does not have to be "discipline" - but The WORD does speak of being "tried" -

[b]Dan 11:35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

Dan 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Rev 20:4-6 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. [/b]

If you can't preach that in China or anywhere else that they are persecuting Christians & tribulation is the Saint's daily lot now, then it shouldn't be preached anywhere, as Nee had said as well.

We're One Body with "them" as well.

I understand your question. I believe these Scriptures above are about "those days."

I believe "The Wrath of GOD" is not until Chpt 15, with The Vials, that come after the last trump.

Rev 15:1 , Rev 15:7 , Rev 16:1

There are some of us who believe that most of what we call the tribulation is the wrath of satan working through man.

We're not all going to agree here on this - but my main point to Philip was - we will see persecution & what most call tribulation and I don't think i've met anyone yet, whether they be Pre or Post trib that disagrees on that as he did.

Would you mind explaining this one sentence?

Persecution and tribulation that comes from the hands of men is almost pointless.

Not according to Rev 20:4-6

Here is A.T. Robertson on Rev 3:10

[b]Rev 3:10

Patience (hupomenēs). “Endurance” as in Rev_13:10; Rev_14:12 as also in 2Th_3:5.

Thou didst keep (etērēsas) - I also will keep (kagō tērēsō). Aorist active indicative and future active corresponding to each other. For a like play on the tenses of this verb by Christ see Joh_17:6 (tetērēkan), Joh_17:11 (tērēson), Joh_17:12 (etēroun).

[i]From the hour of trial (ek tēs hōras tou peirasmou). [u]This use of ek after tēreō in John 17:15[/u], apo in Jam_1:27. Trial brings temptation often (Jam_1:2, Jam_1:13). Jesus endured (Heb_12:1.) and he will [u]help[/u] them. [/i]

Which is to come (tēs mellousēs erchesthai). Agreeing with hōras (feminine), not with peirasmou (masculine).

Upon the whole world (epi tēs epoikoumenēs holēs). The inhabited earth (gēs) as in Rev_12:9; Luk_2:1; Act_16:6, etc.), not the physical earth, but the world of men as explained by the next clause.

To try (peirasai). First aorist active infinitive of purpose from peirazō, probably to tempt (cf. the demons in 9:1-21), not merely to afflict (Rev_2:10).

That dwell upon the earth (tous katoikountas epi tēs gēs). Present active articular participle of katoikeō, explaining “the whole world” just before.

"keep" from Rev 3:10 G5083 τηρέω

Thayer Definition:
1) to attend to carefully, take care of
1a) to guard
1b) metaphorically to keep, one in the state in which he is
1c) to observe
1d) to reserve: to undergo something

_____________________________________

Editing to add Strong's

G5083
τηρέω
tēreō
tay-reh'-o
From τηρός teros (a watch; perhaps akin to G2334); to guard (from loss or injury, properly by keeping the eye upon; and thus differing from G5442, which is properly to prevent escaping; and from G2892, which implies a fortress or full military lines of apparatus), that is, to note (a prophecy; figuratively to fulfil a command); by implication to detain (in custody; figuratively to maintain); by extension to withhold (for personal ends; figuratively to keep unmarried): - hold fast, keep (-er), (ob-, pre-, re) serve, watch.[/b]

Rather than debate or argue over the timing of this resurrection, I wondered, wouldn't it just be best to ready ourselves for "Anything" ?

I believe that is what Corrie Ten Boom tried very hard to get across to us.

I just picked these Pages up today. Very Encouraging.

[b]Topical Index of Scriptures [/b]

http://www.crossroad.to/HisWord/verses/topics/1-index.htm

[b]Preparing for Victory[/b]

http://www.crossroad.to/Victory/contents.htm

[b]Sermons & Devotional Messages [/b]

http://www.crossroad.to/Bible_studies/sermons/devotions/contents.htm

[b]Preparing for Persecution[/b]

http://www.crossroad.to/Persecution/persecute.html

[b]The Secret of Abundant Life[/b]

http://www.crossroad.to/Bible_studies/Beatitudes/contents.html

Hi Chris.

I believe [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=28564&forum=34&1] these two by J. C. Ryle[/url] would answer better than me.

And listening to [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=668]Corrie.[/url]

Ready for anything. ;-)

Day before yesterday I did a Search for "Zac Poonen Rev 12" for his commentary, which I posted on the Amillenial thread and this thread came up on the [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=22099&forum=34&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0]Search.[/url] I felt the pain of redundancy on this present thread that we're on now after reading through that thread. I don't know how many threads there are on this topic, but I've been praying that we'll come to some way to see that it's getting 'quite late' and we should be encouraging one another to make it through ANY possible scenario instead of running from anything and most especially, after reading that thread, that we not spend whatever time we have left arguing.

Here's another and the best message I've ever heard from [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=4145]Corrie Ten Boom.[/url]
I believe she's earned the respect to be listened to.

[b]Saints---Our belief in the Rapture is just as certain, just as sure, as our belief in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ![/b]

In 1 Thess 4:14 Paul equates belief in the Rapture as just as certain as belief in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

[b]Christ is the firstfruits of the Resurrection.[/b]
1 Cor 15:20-23
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the [b]firstfruits[/b] of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 [b]But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.[/b]

We (believers) are the [b]firstfruits of the Spirit, that are part of the Firstfruits of the Resurrection[/b] that will receive our new resurrected bodies when he comes to get us at the Rapture, as described above, and we will be like Him! The Rapture takes place before the Tribulation and the “Day of the Lord”.

Romans 8:23-25
23 And not only they,[b] but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit,[/b] even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. 24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? 25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

[b]When we receive our new resurrected bodies, we will be like Him![/b]

James 1:18
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of[b] firstfruits of his creatures[/b]

This is another description of the Rapture and the receipt of our new resurrected bodies:

1 Cor 15:52-57
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Another description of the Rapture.
1 Thes 4:13-17
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant [b](because they were ignornant about the Rapture)[/b], brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 [b]Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

And still another Description of the Rapture:
John 14:1-4

1. Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4. And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

In the events described above, we (all believers that are alive on the earth before the great tribulation, and all believers that are in heaven, waiting for their glorified bodies) will be raptured and receive our glorified bodies, and will meet Him in the air, and return with Him to heaven, till the end of the Tribulation, when we will RETURN WITH HIM TO THE EARTH, to rule and reign with Him during the 1,000 year millenium, that has been promised to the Jews.[/b]

This passage describes what will happen when Christ comes back to redeem us to Himself. We will be perfect like Him in all ways!
1 Cor. 13:9-12
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12[b] For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.[/b]

1 John 3:2-3
2. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear (at the Rapture), we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

[b]Next, we find a description of the Lord'S SECOND COMING, after the 7 year Tribulation-- When JESUS CHRIST COMES BACK TO THE EARTH WITH HIS SAINTS (that would be the resurrected Church, described above, from the RAPTURE)[/b]. . This clarifies for us that there is more than one resurrection (Firstfruits of the Resurrection). First, Christ was resurrected from the dead--Christ is the Firstfruits of the Resurrection (1 Cor 15:23)
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

[b][color=660000]At the end of the Tribulation, Christ comes back to the earth WITH HIS SAINTS (that is us, Believers in Glorified, Resurrected Bodies)[/color][/b]
Zechariah 14
1. Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2. For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3. Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4.[b] And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.[/b] 5. And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah:[b][color=660000] and the Lord my God shall come, and ALL THE SAINTS WITH THEE.[/color][/b]
6.And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7.But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light. 8. And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. 9. And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

[b]What about the people that went into the great Tribulation, that were unsaved, but came to belief during the Tribulation and were beheaded? [/b]

This describes the rapture of the people that were not saved before the Tribulation (Jews and Gentiles), that went through the Great Tribulation and became believers in Christ (saved) and were beheaded during the tribulation.[b] At the end of the Tribulation Christ throws Satan into the bottomless pit for 1,000 years and judges the beheaded believers (described above). This is a judgment of rewards, not punishment. The judgment of punishment is the Great White Throne Judgment mentioned in Rev. 20:11 and is for all non-believers.[/b]

Rev 20:1-6
1. And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3. And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4.[b] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.[/b]
5. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.[b] This is the first resurrection.
6. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. [/b]

All believers take part in the "Firstfruits of the Resurrection" (ie--the "First Resurrection"). Christ is the "Firstfruits of the Resurrection", and we will particpate in resurrection also, and THEN we will be like Him. All believers will particiapte in the "Firstfruits of the Resurrection". We are all part of the "First Resurrection", eventhough we will be resurrected many years after Jesus Christ was resurrected from the dead, and eventhough we are resurrected at different times from each other--some of us before the Tribulation, some of us after the Tribulation, and others after the Millenium (those believers of [b]flesh and blood,[/b] that lived through the Great Tribulation, and entered the 1,000 millenium with their bodies of flesh and blood, as well as their children that came to belief in the Messiah, in Jesus Christ, during the Millenium!

Sincerely,

Walter