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why did God allow evil?

S
standley May 14, 2009

Now I know this is a huge topic, because it invokes Calvinism vs arminianism. I don't think we can turn a blind eye to this question purely for the fact it is the foundation to the christian faith and an understanding of how God works.

What keeps pulling at my heart and mind is if I stick to the Calvinistic doctrine it states God has made Satan to make men sin and for some men to go to hell. I know were all unworthy and don't deserve life. But I believe God is merciful and loving, so why would he put people on the earth that he made to go to hell?


Ive tried to answer my mind in these ways
. If god did not allow evil men would not know good.
. The Job answer.(im so small I cant understand)

But im still a little confused
anyone got anything to say?

sermonindex May 14, 2009

Welcome Brother Chase,
(I assume thats your first name.)

you want what my heart speaks, as the Spirit leads? you wrote:

if I stick to the Calvinistic doctrine

Stick to Jesus and a simple Faith, you can never go wrong, just plead the Blood of Christ, and the Holy Ghost will lead you....but thats how the Lord leads me, always remembering Paul admonishment, "some follow Paul, some follow Apollos".

in His love, neil

S
standley May 14, 2009

This is true, and I appreciate your reply. But When I refer to Calvinism I'm not speaking of John Calvin. Its just the generic name given to those who hold to the doctrines of grace(which are biblical). I know what your saying, but again its the foundation to Jesus's work here on earth, So I think it should be given some thought.

In Christ, Chase

sermonindex May 14, 2009


standley wrote:
Now I know this is a huge topic, because it invokes Calvinism vs arminianism. I don't think we can turn a blind eye to this question purely for the fact it is the foundation to the christian faith and an understanding of how God works.

What keeps pulling at my heart and mind is if I stick to the Calvinistic doctrine it states God has made Satan to make men sin and for some men to go to hell. I know were all unworthy and don't deserve life. But I believe God is merciful and loving, so why would he put people on the earth that he made to go to hell?


Ive tried to answer my mind in these ways
. If god did not allow evil men would not know good.
. The Job answer.(im so small I cant understand)

But im still a little confused
anyone got anything to say?

[color=000000]#1. God did not create sin. Sin is a consequence of choosing evil, which God did create for the purpose revealing His Love to those who choose Him, evil being the other choice. Question: How else can true love be revealed if choice is not involved in the process?

#2. Sin originated in Lucifer who chose evil to become the great Satan who was cast to Earth.

#3 Adam was created without evil in him and given to make a choice between God's love for him and his love for himself, not unlike what Lucifer did. He did and chose wrongly, thus infecting us, by his universal blood, with the "sin" penalty of his choosing, which separates us from God's actual presence. Separating us from God's actual presence has left us an overwhelming 'self-serving' flesh condition that the devil easily exploits. It is in his power to do so because in the transgression, what Adam didn't realize, is that he would be establishing a relationship with the enemy of God AND with his on soul. Jesus broke that power and makes the way open for us to re-establish our relationship with God as purposed by Him from eternity.[/color]

T
tjservant May 14, 2009

These may help shed some light on the subject.

[url=http://www.geocities.com/athens/delphi/8449/prob.html]The Glory of God in the Problem of Evil[/url]

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=28244&forum=35&7]God vs. Science[/url]

D
davym May 15, 2009

But I believe God is merciful and loving, so why would he put people on the earth that he made to go to hell?

I think that there are certain things God doesn't tell us in the Bible. The Bible is just enough information to get us through this world. Dwelling on questions like this is what robs Christians of their peace and joy. It can even lead to mental illness if carried to the extreme. Stay within the boundaries of the Book and allow the Holy Spirit to teach you.

Christians I believe search for answers in all the wrong places these days e.g. churches, programs, youth groups, music, Calvinism etc.. There are no answers there. They are blind alleys. The answers lie in God's Word.

In Christ

D

sermonindex May 15, 2009


davym wrote:
But I believe God is merciful and loving, so why would he put people on the earth that he made to go to hell?

I think that there are certain things God doesn't tell us in the Bible. The Bible is just enough information to get us through this world. Dwelling on questions like this is what robs Christians of their peace and joy. It can even lead to mental illness if carried to the extreme. Stay within the boundaries of the Book and allow the Holy Spirit to teach you.

Christians I believe search for answers in all the wrong places these days e.g. churches, programs, youth groups, music, Calvinism etc.. There are no answers there. They are blind alleys. The answers lie in God's Word.

In Christ

D

This is no mystery. God has never interfered[s] with procreation. It is what it is by His decree. He simply uses it to bring about His purposes for His "new creation" in Christ, a Spiritual one.

L
Logic May 15, 2009

standley asked:

why did God allow evil?

But im still a little confused
anyone got anything to say?

That is like asking, "Why did God allow Lucifer to sin"?

Why did God allow mankind to sin?
Because, He wants men to freely choose to love Him, without any coercion.
If there was any coercion, then, the love would not be real &/or true.

"Now, remember, sin is a crime. It is the committal of the will to the principle and practice of governing one's life to please one's self.
In other words, when the Scripture says, 'all have sinned,' it is saying that upon reaching the age of accountability, every individual has chosen to govern and control his life to please himself...
We know that upon reaching the age of accountability, each of us chose as the principle by which we would live: "I am going to govern and control my own life."
Paris Reidhead (Finding the Reality of God, pg 85).

“The Bible declares that men, having been created upright and in the image of God, have corrupted themselves and sinned against the good nature that God created them with.” Alfred T. Overstreet (Over One Hundred Texts from The Bible That Show That Babies Not Born Sinners, pg. 3).

“Moral beings themselves are the author of their own rebellion, which is an unintelligent abuse of their God-given endowments of personality…. It is man who has abused his God-given freedom.” Gordon Olson (The Entrance of Sin into the World, pg. 31, 38)

"Evil is making a bad use of a good thing."
This good thing is our own will &/or appetites/desires; to say he we have no free will is to say that we have no free appetites or desires.

If our appetites or desires be corupt from nature, then mankind is not culpable for the wrong appetites or desires; for he did not choose them.
Just as one is not judge for being born a certain way, so mankind would not be judged for sin, if he was born with that knind of nature.

In conclusion:
God did not allow evil, but created beings like Himself; able to freely choose.

Some people mean that our nature influences us to sin. This is not precisely true. Again, our nature is made up of many elements, two of which are sensibilities and intelligence. The "lusts of the flesh" and the "lusts of the mind" both belong to the sensibilities. Our conscience belongs to our intelligence. Our conscience tells us to obey God. Our conscience influences us not to sin.
Since our conscience is an element of our nature, we could say that our nature influences us to obey God, our nature tells us not to sin.

On the other hand, our body has passions and desires that want gratification. It is not "sin" that our bodies crave; it is gratification that our body desires, whether it be lawful or unlawful gratification. Your body doesn't care if you gratify it's sexual desire through marriage or fornication. It doesn't "crave sin", it craves gratification through whatever means, legal or illegal. Likewise you have an appetite for food. Your body doesn't care if you gratify this desire through stealing bread or purchasing bread. The "means" is irrelevant to your body. But the "end" that it craves is not sin, but gratification. Men sin, not for the sake of sinning, but because of the gratification that it brings. Sin is not an "end", sin is a means to an end, and that end is gratification.

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=28597&forum=36&start=100&viewmode=flat&order=1]This last paragraph and the quotes above are from my post on this page.[/url]

H
hmmhmm May 15, 2009

Love always is based on a free choice to chose to love, your wife or husband i hope has chosen to love you, if you forced heer it would not be true love, the same as if i bought a doll for my four year old girl and on the back of this doll there is a string i can pull and the doll says "i love you"

this is not real love, so in order for God to be glorified in that men love him they must be able to chose to love him.

Adam was made perfect in the sense he was not created with sin in him, he did not have what we call sin nature, there is much error in many who have a wrong understanding about sin nature, some use it to blame when they sin just as adam blamed eve for his sin.

but God allows evil temporary, he will deal with it one day, but in so doing he gives also a way to bring many sons to glory, they who chose to love him and follow him.

True love always comes with a choice, i think even my calvinistic brethren would agree, the issue lies who can love and who enables the love.

every day we chose to love God or ourselves, the world or sin.

chose the tree of life or the tree of knowledge.

In a sense evil has always existed as long as there have been created beings able to chose to do the right thing or the wrong.

God could have stopped it all, but God wanted not only one son, but he was the "firstborn" , and when there are many born unto him he will be glorified, individual in you and in me, and corporate as "one" body of believers, God will be glorified.

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Heb 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.


and its good to remember the bible is on a "need to know bases" :-) not a "know it all"....

If we dont understand some thing we can meditate upon it and pray and maybe one day God will reveal it to us.

sermonindex May 16, 2009


[color=000000]Why do suppose God is tolerating this evil in today's church if not to reveal the narrowness in Him required to be understood and embraced and can only be performed by those who truly love Him and not for what they get out of it:

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=28819&forum=36&2

"One of the worst sins amongst us is that we are more interested in the most recent views on sanctification than we are in the testimonies in God’s Book. Any excitable, hysterical testimony from a tide of revival is apt to be more welcome to the majority of sanctified people than the bedrock teaching of the New Testament. With what result? “. . . because they had no root, they withered away."[/color]

Chambers, O. (1996, c1943). Bringing sons into glory : Studies in the life of our Lord. London: Marshall, Morgan & Scott.

sermonindex May 18, 2009

i recommend a.w pink sovereignty of god, amazing grace the doctrine of calvinism Dvd, they both have helped my understanding of your question. Understand calvinism or the 5 points of calvinism is a response to the 5 points of armianism, and all of their points our according to what the scripture says, not saying it is all right but thats what it is, according to their intepretation of scripture so this problem with calvinsm would be the same as me or anyone else here having their own interpretation of scripture in which everyone here has their own views of scripture and freely gives it, calvinism and armianiasm is the same thing, my name is john beechy and you could call my doctrine beechyism, of course i am joking but everyones views on what scripture says could be considered their own doctrine even though we don't say that. So now you can look at caklvinism and armianism as someones own interpretation of scripture and not some evil thing that people speak of or against like it is real bad, it is better to have order when explaining something and these 2 do that, our they right i don't no, our we right on everything most likely not, so look at it as a different view on scripture, not some bad terrible thing.

sermonindex May 18, 2009

God is all knowing & all powerful, knowing the end from the beginning. God created man with a free will, knowing in advance that he would sin.

The Bible tells us that before the world was created, God had the plan of salvation to save those that would believe in Him.

God has no use for Satan, and no use for the man or woman that wants nothing to do with him, that has rejected Him.

Earth was created to sort it all out. All those that believe in the seed of the woman, revealed by God in the Garden, in the beginning of time in (Genesis 3:15) are saved and will spend eternal life with Him.

Since we are the creatures, we should be joyously happy with this wonderful plan of salvation and eternal life with our creator. However, our sin nature indwells us, and inflates us to be "gods" in our minds, and as "gods" we are offended by this plan. We think, how can God do such a thing? How can God send any human being (his creation) to hell??How can God create hell for those that want nothing to do with Him?

God created hell for Satan and his fallen angels, not for man. God created a plan for man to be saved, and spend eternity with Him, in worship and adoration of Him. Those that reject God's plan will spend eternity in hell, with Satan and his fallen angels who rejected God long, long ago.

What was God's Plan? He sent His Son to become sin for humanity. Those that reject this free gift, reject eternal life with Him

(2 Cor 5:21)
1. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Without our belief and trust in Him, and the work that He did, we are on a one way road to hell.

Sincerely,

Walter


standley wrote:
Now I know this is a huge topic, because it invokes Calvinism vs arminianism. I don't think we can turn a blind eye to this question purely for the fact it is the foundation to the christian faith and an understanding of how God works.

What keeps pulling at my heart and mind is if I stick to the Calvinistic doctrine it states God has made Satan to make men sin and for some men to go to hell. I know were all unworthy and don't deserve life. But I believe God is merciful and loving, so why would he put people on the earth that he made to go to hell?


Ive tried to answer my mind in these ways
. If god did not allow evil men would not know good.
. The Job answer.(im so small I cant understand)

But im still a little confused
anyone got anything to say?

This discussion is locked.

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