We Know Not The Gospel Of Jesus Christ by Paul Washer (Video)

Excellent 10 minute video of Paul Washer

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty5uHLqdglY&feature=channel]We Know Not The Gospel Of Jesus Christ[/url]

**edit**

All reading this thread should be made aware that much of what is being labeled as Calvinism in this thread is a distortion of the true historic teachings of the doctrines of grace.

The difference is in the nature and purpose of God and man.

Calvinism is not fatalistic. Fatalism teaches that God does all things arbitrarily and without purpose or without regard to those he controls (just like the Greek Fates). There is no compassion or love in His motive, just arbitrary rule.

The doctrines of grace teach that God is personal and that he rules and governs all things for his glory out of love for his elect. He works all things for their good. God is one who loves, and loves sovereignly. So, as you can see, this is not fate.

Regarding man's responsibility, Fatalism would teach that “what will be will be” therefore you can do whatever you want to do, since it's all determined anyway. Fatalism will always be antinomian.

The doctrines of grace (i.e the Gospel) teach that man is responsible for his actions. He must obey God's law. He must respond to the Word. He must believe on Christ to be saved. After he is regenerate and has faith, he must produce fruit. God requires this of man.

Scripture (i.e. Doctrines of Grace) teaches both the absolute sovereignty of God and the responsibility of man.

Please study this subject for your self and do not rely on the opinions being put forth on this thread.

Grace, peace, and love be multiplied:
Greetings to all. Once again I am disappointed to hear a good start to a sermon that only ended up being more Calvinistic fatalism. Yes, Mr. Washer is correct that there is an obvious need to re-educate the Church concerning the evangelizing of the true gospel, and that many a modern techniques of leading people to decision making is wrong. The preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ isn't about asking people if they want to go to heaven. The gospel isn't about "four spiritual laws." This is a true observation that is made clear by the Holy Scriptures. However, the calvinistic theology that is evident in Mr. Washer's presentation is also unbiblical and therefore not the gospel of Jesus Christ either. No man or woman is passive in the call to repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ as suggested in his sermon. Nor has God elected particular men to salvation to the exclusion of the others. If one studies the Holy Scriptures you will not find any prophet, or apostle of the New Testament (Not even Christ himself) asking the question that Mr. Washer says is the real question namely, "has God so worked in your heart to such a degree that the sin you once loved you now hate?" Mr. Washer also offers a "technique" that isn't found in the Bible. God himself doesn't ask any sinner this question nor does the Holy Ghost approach any sinner in this manner. The bible says that when the Holy Ghost is come he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment. This must take place to awaken men and women to the reality that they are sinners, and what that means in the sight of a holy God. The sinner must be made aware by the Holy Ghost as the gospel is being preached the criminality of his whole position before God. But there is no regeneration until the sinner is convinced, and submits in obedience to the call of the gospel namely, repentance toward God, and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. God does not seize men arbitrarily as so suggested by Mr. Washer as if men and women are simply passive in the process. The preaching of the gospel is reason; it cause men to think about their lostness before God; to consider how offensive to God they are and how deserving of Hell they really are. Yea, let God be true and every man and woman a liar. I repeat, God does not seize any man or women arbitrarily for salvaiton; he reasons with them in the conviction of their sins. In Isaiah 1:18-20, it reads, "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red as crimson, the shall be as wool.(19)If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:(20)But if you refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it." Notice what God Almighty says in verses 19 "If ye be willing and obedient. . ." and again in verse 20, "If ye refuse and rebel. . ." This reveals the responsibility that men and women have in being "willing", or, "refusing" to repent and be saved. Notice also that Jehovah was willing, but if was obvious that Israel was not willing. There are many other scriptures that can be cited to demonstrate that God commands men everywhere to repent, but does not seize any particular person before they are willing and obedient concerning the Lord Jesus Christ.

You know their is a testimony of his wife up now, you should check it out.

Thanks, I have.

I think that it (Charo’s testimony/experience) has perhaps provided some of the fuel for Paul Washer's particular burden and message.

timotheous,

Seems to me you need to go back and listen again to Washer's sermon. Washer is emphatic that repentance is the evidence of salvation in the life of a person being 'saved'.

Quote:
I repeat, God does not seize any man or women arbitrarily for salvation;

I never heard Washer say his, nor imply it. If he did at what point in the sermon did you understand him to say it? Listen to it again tell me were it is so I can listen to it again...

Thank-you!
ginnyrose

Greetings ginnyrose:

Thank you for your reply. I do not believe I need to go back and listen to Mr. Washer's video. I heard him well enough and I have also listened to other sermon's that he has preached.

"Washer is emphatic that repentance is the evidence of salvation in the life of a person being 'saved'."

I never said that Mr. Washer does not believe in repentance, or that he doesn't preach repentance. Remember the holy scriptures say first repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Act 20:21. Also chapter 26:20. The apostle warns both Jew and Gentile that they should repent, and turn to God and do works meet(or as evidence of)true repentance. Notice the divine order according to the Holy Bible. The born again experience does not precede repentance, but the convicting power of the Holy Ghost does. The convicting power of the Holy Ghost convinces, and convicts us of our sins. Only then we are made aware of our criminality, and guilt before God; only then can true repentance toward God, and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ be realized. The born again experience does not precede faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross. According to the Bible #1.Repentance #2.Faith #3.Salvation.

[i]"I repeat, God does not seize any man or women arbitrarily for salvation; "[/i]My point in this statement is that men, and women are not passive in the process, that is, God does not seize individuals with some kind of "irresistable grace" He will command men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel. They are free to submit themselves to God, or resist the truth of the gospel and remain lost.

Unfortunately, Mr. Washer believes in "particular redeemption" (the title to one of his sermons), that is, limited atonement, and the election of particular persons. This is classic Calvinistic fatalism. The only man in all of time that has been particularly elected from all eternity past is none other than the man Jesus Christ. Once it is understood that the election is Christocentric and not particular persons; then and only then can we understand that our election and eternal life is IN THE SON not in particular persons as the Calvinist believe.

This is classic Calvinistic fatalism.

I would like to add to the thread that I do not believe Paul Washer is a fatalist.

Fatalism accepts what the Bible says about God's sovereignty without acknowledging the verses about human responsibility and free agency. Much of the rest of contemporary Christianity does just the opposite -- swallowing free agency without facing up to the sovereignty verses. Both approaches leave one with a truncated Bible and a distorted image of God. Paul Washer does not deny the responsibility of the believer.

I will not argue the matter, but would like to make it clear that having heard several of Paul Washer’s sermons…he is definitely not fatalistic. Many folks attempt to lump all those holding to the doctrines of grace into the same “hyper”- Calvinistic pile. The fact of the matter is that there are many people who hold to a balanced and historically consistent view that is anything but fatalistic.

I think their our arguments for both sides so to think that Bible doesn't teach gods sovereignty in salvation without any mention that i would advise you study a little more because it actually does. Ephesians ch. 1, john ch. 6 and ch. 10, romans 8 and 9, Acts ch. 18 our for starts. We also forget God chose israel out of all the nations.

Greetings:

The Holy Bible does teach that God is sovereign. I do not believe that I have read where anyone posted any different. However, the truth that God is sovereign does not make Paul Washer's Calvinism true. It would seem that some who believe in Calvinism read into many text such a conclusion of particular election, and particular reprobation. This is unfortunate. Calvinism (not the faith that was once delivered to the saints) is founded on 5 pillars, or "T.U.L.I.P" Theology; if only one of these pillars fall, the whole facade of Calvinism falls to the ground.

As I have stated on another thread: I know that Bro. Paul Washer is well loved, and celebrated on this website. I do not have a personal axe to grind with Mr. Washer or any of his followers. My revulsion is with the Calvinistic faith Mr. Washer clearly propagates.

Once again, if you keep in mind and heart as you read the scriptures that the only one who is worthy of unconditional election is Christ Jesus alone. This is why he and only he is the elect of God. Our election as individual persons is only contigent on our organic relationship to Christ Jesus who is the executor of election. As one Brother puts it, "Christ is the Elect, and the Electing God."

[u][i][b][color=CC0000]"Behold my servant, whom I uphold; MINE ELECT, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles."[/color][/b][/i][/u]Isaiah 42:1.

There may be "argumemts on both sides" as one brother indicated, but logically speaking only one can be true while the other is false. We will hold to the one and reject the other. I chose the Bible over Calvinistic fatalism. I encourage everyone who reads this to do the same.

I agree with Jimotheus on this one.

Having listened to MANY of Paul Washer's sermons and teachings, I have found much to rally around as revival-seeking brethren. "10 Indictments" is one of the greatest sermons I've heard anywhere by anyone.

However, even Mr. Washer seems to be constantly morphing in his belief in the so-called doctrines of grace. In one sermon he emphatically declares himself a Calvinist. In "10 Indictments" he stumbles as he describes himself as a "5-point Spurgeonist." I certainly wouldn't describe Mr. Washer as dogmatic on all of Calvin's teachings. He even preaches that Calvinism vs. Arminianism isn't the issue-- redemption is the issue. I'm no Calvinist and am certainly no Arminian. I am, however, redeemed, Praise God forever!

After immersing myself in the preaching of Paul Washer for several weeks, I had to turn him off. (I will probably go back and listen to his other sermons sometime and will probably go back and re-listen to ones I've heard already at some point in the future because I think that he often starts with the correct premise of many of the problems in modern Christianity.) I couldn't put my finger on what it was that bothered me so much until I read this thread. As I listened to his sermons, where I was compelled by scripture to agree with him on the nature of the issues we face, I so often was repulsed by the fatalism in his solutions and the lack of hope offered.

For instance, I definitely agree with him that the easy-believism movement is wrong and the little prayer rituals they propagate are damning heresies. But Mr. Washer often sought simply to replace easy believism with what can only be described as "hard believism." It is just as ritualistic as its counterpart, but it is much more confusing and convoluted due to the shear volume of its extra-biblical foundations.

There were some in the Bible such as Paul who had profound salvation "experiences" and others such as the Philippian jailer who simply asked "what must I do to be saved?" According to the Bible, both men were equally made sons of God. However, neither of these men had to agonize for hours until they felt saved (Mr. Washer's apparent ideal of true salvation). They simply believed God, repented, and entered into the fellowship of obedience to their Creator.

Anyway, I hope that Mr. Washer continues to re-evaluate the so-called doctrines of grace and that many souls will be saved or revived as a result of his obedience to preach the gospel.

All reading this thread should be made aware that much of what is being labeled as Calvinism in this thread is a distortion of the true historic teachings of the doctrines of grace.

The difference is in the nature and purpose of God and man.

Calvinism is not fatalistic. Fatalism teaches that God does all things arbitrarily and without purpose or without regard to those he controls (just like the Greek Fates). There is no compassion or love in His motive, just arbitrary rule.

The doctrines of grace teach that God is personal and that he rules and governs all things for his glory out of love for his elect. He works all things for their good. God is one who loves, and loves sovereignly. So, as you can see, this is not fate.

Regarding man's responsibility, Fatalism would teach that “what will be will be” therefore you can do whatever you want to do, since it's all determined anyway. Fatalism will always be antinomian.

The doctrines of grace (i.e the Gospel) teach that man is responsible for his actions. He must obey God's law. He must respond to the Word. He must believe on Christ to be saved. After he is regenerate and has faith, he must produce fruit. God requires this of man.

Scripture (i.e. Doctrines of Grace) teaches both the absolute sovereignty of God and the responsibility of man.

Please study this subject for your self and do not rely on the opinions being put forth on this thread.

If Calvinism is no way arbitrary, then what is the determining factor in who God has elected?

Just an honest question.

jpspeer wrote:
If Calvinism is no way arbitrary, then what is the determining factor in who God has elected?

Just an honest question.

Ephesians 1:4-5, 11

4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,

Many people feel that predestination portrays God as an arbitrary despot who uses the stairway method of saving people. He writes down everybody's name on separate sheets of paper and throws the papers down the steps. Those that land on the top steps are saved, those that land on the bottom are not.

Now let me ask you, is this characterization true to everything we know about God from the Scriptures? Biblical predestination flows from the character of God, and is rooted in his nature and attributes-it cannot be separated. If therefore we can prove that God is not arbitrary in nature, we can prove that predestination is not arbitrary and does not reveal anything arbitrary about God.

Is there anything in our current passage which indicates that God is arbitrary? Not at all. The entire tenor of the passage is filled with language about God's purpose, and his good pleasure. It is true that God does what he wants, but there is nothing in the passage which indicates that what God wants is not good. Indeed, when it speaks of God's pleasure, the word in the original strongly implies the fact that this pleasure is good. We see that God has a plan and a purpose which include bringing the entire universe under the headship of Jesus Christ. The goodness of God's pleasure, the fact that he has a plan from the very beginning, a plan to which he relates all his individual acts, is the very opposite of arbitrary decisions. - Barry Hofstetter [url=http://www.reformed.org/calvinism/index.html?mainframe=/calvinism/bh_predestination.html]Source[/url]

The attributes of God show in themselves that He is not arbitrary...even if we do not have all the reasons or understanding.

I wish not to debate Calvinism.

God bless you. :-)

I wish not to debate Calvinism either.

When I ask how God's choice is made so that I might understand how God isn't arbitrary according to the so-called doctrines of grace, I am looking for an actual answer.

The quote you replied with boils down to a response of "He isn't arbitrary."

That is hardly an answer to the question I asked.

jpspeer wrote:
I wish not to debate Calvinism either.

When I ask how God's choice is made so that I might understand how God isn't arbitrary according to the so-called doctrines of grace, I am looking for an actual answer.

The quote you replied with boils down to a response of "He isn't arbitrary."

That is hardly an answer to the question I asked.

I replied with scripture. I included a quote. I believe it answers it perfectly. God has a will and can do whatever He wants. The scripture says, "His pleasure." Can God not simply make choices based on His will and Pleasure? This does not make Him arbitrary nor does it mean that those that hold belief in the doctrines of grace make Him to be arbitrary just because He has not included anymore details.

There are plenty of threads here on SI that have went through this before. I am sure there are others that can better answer your question. Please forgive my inadequacies.

This thread was not intended to be a launching pad for Calvinism theology discussions. I feel I should bow out at this point.

May God bless you all.

People think their our 2 definitions of the word elect, one believes if they have become a christian they our elect but by their own choosing, the other believes God chose them to be the elect.I lean more to the second one and that is because that is what the Bible more teaches of like i said in romans 9, john ch. 6 and 0, ephesians ch. and acts 18 our some to show Gods sovereignty in salvation. One things armians don't understand is that God must awaken the dead soul for them to seek after him. Go up to anyone on the streets or unbelievers in your family and you tell me our they automatically seeking God, as my family they our dead to it and want no part of it, is it because they choose him not or because God has not opened their eyes or is drawing them, you tell me but the Bible supports this. Jesus said the only way anyone could come to him is if the father drew them, but we seem to forget that.Paul washers sermons have helped me more than any other preacher i have listened to before, he believes what he believes because scripture teaches it and Gods has taught him because he sought God probably more than most. I really don't like the fact that some can point the finger at someone saying their teachings our fatalistic when they can't prove their teachings wrong because want to know why because that person the calvinist has many scriptures to prove their point, if their not valid or not completely they still have verses to show some evidence. This is not about calvinism i guess, but what the Bible literally teaches, what makes your belief system right and washers wrong, prove to me that john ch. 6 and 0 and romans 9 and ephesians our saying something different. Their our more too, but i am trying to say that no side has full evidence to prove their point, but washer surely understands the depravity of man which scripture clearlly teaches, amen to this sermon.