So which is it? Are you still a sinner saved by grace or a saint

[color=000000] . . . learning not to sin; learning how to be faithful in Christ Jesus? [Eph.1.1 KJV]

New Testament Names for the People of God A number of names for the people of God in the New Testament emphasize different aspects of the relationship that believers have with God and with the world. Christian (call) was first applied in New Testament times, but the believers were more commonly referred to as saints because of the righteousness that was theirs by faith, or as the brethren (brothers) as a sign of their belonging to the family of God. They are God’s children by adoption, the elect or chosen ones. They are the beloved of God, a royal priesthood and servants of God. As God’s flock they are under the care of Christ, the Chief Shepherd of the sheep; while remnant contrasts the relatively small number saved by the gospel from the midst of unbelieving Israel. Pilgrim highlights the fact that believers are sojourners in the world, but they are not of it. Vine, W. (1997, c1996). Vine's complete expository dictionary topic finder . Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

“Wherefore it behoved Him in all things to be made like unto His brethren”. Heb.2.17

His “brethren” are those in whom He is born. Think about it.[/color]

[color=000000]I find it interesting that many here who consider me "wacked", a "Buddhist", a "Troll", "one who deals in Biblical numbers", a "deceiver of the brethren", a "Goat", "one who has lost his way" and whatever else pops into their minds, have not responded to this thread. I wonder why? Could it be they don't know what they are? . . I guess that is my fault as well even though I posted using the words of another, the Bible, supported by Vine. That is a sad commentary on all the "elect" of God here, who can't say so. Perhaps they are not so sure of themselves after all.

So does the Word share your body or not?[/color]

I would just like to comment that the opening words of the leading post in this thread,

'learning not to sin'

are not found the Bible.

Hello Intense,

Perhaps they are not so sure of themselves after all.

Hello Alive,

[color=000000]"By regeneration the Son of God is formed in us, and He has the same setting in our physical life as He had when He was on earth. Are we remaining loyal to Him in the things which beset His life in us?"

Chambers, O. (1996, c1960). The philosophy of sin : And other studies on the problem of man's moral life. Hants UK: Marshall, Morgan & Scott.

I find it difficult to understand that so few, who claim to know the Bible, realize that the divinity that was in the man Jesus that, by His obedience is now made available for their lives.
"And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure."
1 John 3:3 (KJV)

[/color]

Hi Orm,

As in most of the great truths in Scripture, for us their is a tension. While it is certainly true that I am an adopted child of God, I am a priest in a Royal priesthood, Jesus has deemed to take up residence in my heart through His precious Holy Spirit and I rejoice in all of that, yet humility is the order of the day to a genuine saint. Not a humility that would deny who we were in Christ, but a humility that knows that despite who we are in Christ we are ever seeking to be "perfect," as He is perfect. We "beware when we stand, lest we fall." The mark of a "saint," will be his love and humility. He will only ever want to talk about Jesus, about His Heavenly Father. He will be so enraptured by the presence of God, so amazed that a wretch such as himself was deemed worthy of such great love and sacrifice of Calvary, that his constant focus will be on Jesus and becoming more like him. He will never be "familiar," in the presence of God.
We are not divine. Divinity dwells within us, within our corruptible flesh. Our flesh will be corrupt until the day that it is raised in incorrption. This is not a self-loathing on my part, its a simple acknoledgment of the truth revealed by the Holy Spirit in His Word, Romans 7. Yet despite this law of sin in my flesh, I walk in the glorious freedom revealed in the Chapter 8. What a mystery, what a joy that the Lord has made a way where there seemed to be no way. As long as I stick to the narrow path, then I will find my way home. As long as I continue to overcome, then I wil, find my way home. And the glorious truth? I am empowered by God Himself to overcome. I am of good cheer because Jesus Himself overcame. Therefore I can too........Frank

To Intense:

[b]Your "ideas" about Jesus Christ and man are not found in Scripture, either from the Old or the New Testament. They are not found in Church history.

Your ideas are nothing more than your ideas, devoid of scripture and devoid of the truth of God.

Your ideas are cultish, worse than I ever imagined at the beginning of your appearance here as "intense". I originally thought you were of the Mormon faith, but what you have posted shows that you have your own cult. Based upon your PM to me, you have 10 followers who have swallowed your "teachings" hook, line and sinker.

On top of all of that, now we find out you are actually "Ormley". Who are you really? I know that you are not from the sheep, but from the goats.

I suggest to other true believers in Jesus Christ--- to other "sheep" to completely ignore this goat Ormley/Intense. Shun him! He is dangerous for the young sheep that visit this wonderful site, Sermonindex. His motive is to trap young sheep, and bring them into his fold of goats, into his own cult![/b]

Sincerely,

Walter

Intense wrote:
Hello Alive,

[color=000000]"By regeneration the Son of God is formed in us, and He has the same setting in our physical life as He had when He was on earth. Are we remaining loyal to Him in the things which beset His life in us?"

Chambers, O. (1996, c1960). The philosophy of sin : And other studies on the problem of man's moral life. Hants UK: Marshall, Morgan & Scott.

I find it difficult to understand that so few, who claim to know the Bible, realize that the divinity that was in the man Jesus that, by His obedience is now made available for their lives.
"And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure."
1 John 3:3 (KJV)

[/color]

[color=000000] :-) Interesting that one who proclaims to belong to Christ Jesus and yet speaks from little knowledge about Him. Strange, that he doesn't know that the Word who became flesh, still is. Glorified and sitting at the right hand of God; the "Firstfruit" of many son's who will be "brought unto Glory" is a Man, Jesus. Joint-heirs with Him in His Throne will be those who have learned [are learning] to love God with all their heart, soul, mind and strength.. Strange indeed, this ignorance that can find nothing but fault in others understanding of the message of Jesus Christ; accusations that border on blasphemy. . . .argue with that.[/color]

As Satan gets more of his way and the hatred rises to a greater pitch here no doubt, CHSSCK will lock this thread down as well.

It may seem like a play on words however, all I ask is to see it from a perspective that goes unoticed:

"Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, [color=000000]to the saints[/color] which are at Ephesus, [color=000000]and to the faithful[/color] in Christ Jesus"
Ephesians 1:1 (KJV)

It is as simple as that when saying we are no longer sinners but saints, learning how, not to sin. . . or learning how to be faithful in Christ Jesus.

Can you see it??

TaylorOtwell wrote:
Intense,

I think a better question is can you find us one "saint" in the Bible who was not a member of a visible, local church where they gathered with other believers?

With care in Christ,
Taylor

In times of Roman conquest, many churches were not so visible.

TaylorOtwell wrote:
I understand that during times of persecution, churches were sometimes less visible. However, that is not the situation here.

Your beliefs clearly put you outside of historic Christian beliefs, therefore, out of all existing churches. Now, the question I'm getting at is, can you really Biblically be called a "saint" if your are completely outside of the churches of Christ, both presently and historically? And, since there is no saint in the Scripture that was not also a member of a visible church.

My beliefs?? I rest in what Paul wrote: Everything Paul wrote in any one of his letters.. More than that from you and I will take as an attempt by you to pick fly dirt out of pepper.

Pick away, my friend

A Christian WAS a sinner saved by grace. He no longer is! . . IF HE IS A CHRISTIAN. Are you a Christian? Are you still a sinner. SHAME!

Not confusing at all. Let me ask this question: Are you seated with Christ in Heavenly places?

Note the sign: "No sinners allowed".

ccchhhrrriiisss wrote:
Hi intense...

So which is it? Are you still a sinner saved by grace or a saint?

Why does it have to be one thing or another? Perhaps a [i]saint[/i] is simply a [i]sinner saved by grace[/i]?

Just a thought. I think that we dig too deeply into things that just aren't meant to be that confusing.