OT Born Again Example

Here is an example of OT Scripture which reveals the mystery spoken of in the NT.

Job 33:25\t His flesh shall be fresher than a child's: he shall return to the days of his youth:

Job 33:26\t He shall pray unto God, and he will be favourable unto him: and he shall see his face with joy: for he will render unto man his righteousness.

In Christ
Jeff

And your question is.....???? please explain

Rookie,

Colossians 1 tells us what the Mystery is. It is Christ in you, the hope of [i][b][color=990000]GLORY[/color][/b][/i].

The Spirit of the Life of Christ was not available in the OT. The Spirit o the life of Christ is the risen Christ.

Your scripture of Job 33:25 and Job 33:26 has nothing to do with the Mystery.

Paul tells us the Mystery was not revealed in the OT.

You see, the Mystery of Christ in you is the Mystery that we are begotten sons through Jesus Christ, and will be Glorified together with Christ. We are told we are flesh of His Flesh and Bone of His Bone. Paul also tells us more about this Mystery in Ephesians 5.

When we have been Completely redeemed and Glorified together with Christ, we will be with Him. Also we don't know what we will be but we know that we will be like Him for we shall see Him as He is. If His flesh is fresher than a child's...I suppose ours will be too. But as for now, our outer man is perishing, and it's our inward man that is being renewed day by day. Our inward man is not our flesh being made over, but crucified with Christ.

Keep studying!

Blessings,
R.G. Benjamin

Brother Benjamin wrote:

Your scripture of Job 33:25 and Job 33:26 has nothing to do with the Mystery.

If one were to read Job chapter 33 in light of the NT one would clearly see the gospel.

Brother Benjamin what do you hear spoken in this section of Scripture Job 33:25-26?

In Christ
Jeff

Jeff, What I hear is one of the friends of Job speaking. However this speaker accuses Job of wickedness. The end of Job, God speaks, and accuses all but Job of not speaking the truth.

Please tell me exactly what these verses mean to you? Are you saying that the Mystery is that your flesh will be softer than a baby's bottom and with that God will answer your prayers?

A rather shallow understanding of salvation isn't it?

Blessings,

R.G. Benjamin

Brother Benjamin wrote:

Jeff, What I hear is one of the friends of Job speaking. However this speaker accuses Job of wickedness. The end of Job, God speaks, and accuses all but Job of not speaking the truth.

If you read the Scriptures in Job you will find that Elihu is not Job's accuser. Elihu in not one of the three that God condemns for their words. I exhort you to be a berean and search the Scriptures to see if what I am saying is true.

What does Scripture say of Elihu's words?

In Christ
Jeff

Jeff, Let's first establish the book of Job is about suffering. Next, lets make clear, in our Christian life we are to Count it all Joy James 1.

And did God in the end Praise Elihu? NO!

With that, it is only in these ater years that I've begun to understand there is an even worse kind of false “friend”. These are the ones I refer to as the “friends of Job”. I believe that most of us have experienced them. The sooner we come to understand the danger that their false teaching or interference, the happier we will all be.

These are the folks who claim to have somehow “figured God out” as though the Christian life were some kind of puzzle. They act as though following the Lord involves living out a formula. They fail to speak of the fact that those who embrace His way will walk, as He did, along a rugged road. After all, we follow in the footsteps of a Savior who’s greatest act of Love, His self giving embrace of death on a Cross, was deemed by most who witnessed it to be His complete failure.

These “friends of Job” seem to be everywhere these days. They fill the pulpits of some of Americas fastest growing “mega churches”. They flood our airwaves with their claims of health, wealth, prosperity and blessing for those who “really” get the Gospel, at least the Gospel they preach. Sometimes it is whatPaul warned of as “another gospel” (Gal. 1:6), which reduces our walk with God to following a formula.

These “friends of Job” are quick to wrongly judge when difficulties come into the lives of good people, as they inevitably will, or want to be the Holy Spirit of conscience in yours, distracting you from hearing God's voice specifically speaking to you.

The Book of Job is one of the treasures of the Bible. It reveals a truth about authentic spirituality to every age. The background of the Book is a dispute between Satan, whom the New Testament rightly refers to as the “accuser of the brethren” (Rev. 12:10), and God. Satan contends that Job served God for what He got from Him not for who God is. How rampant is this kind of self interested service of God in some of the Christian circles in our own time? How many self styled teachers seek to reduce Christian living to formulas?

At the beginning of this book we find the mystery of true faith. After his own wife told him to “curse God and die” Job spoke these words of caution and then wisdom, "Are even you going to speak as senseless women do? We accept good things from God; and should we not accept evil?" (Job 2:10)

In the midst of his discourse with these friends, he added the following acclamation which gets to the heart of the mettle of Job, "…even if he slay me, yet will I trust in Him." (Job 13:15)

These words were spoken to the self professed “experts” who had come to tell him how he could get out of the mess if he just followed their formulaic approach to religious living. They need to be shouted in some places in our own day. Job was fully surrendered to God. He refused to turn God into an object for His own use. He grasped the true mystery of a faith that really saves.

When we first encounter the “friends of Job” at the beginning of the Book they seem empathetic, tearing their cloaks, weeping and even spending a week with him in his anguish. But, their feigned compassion ends all too soon. They have something to tell Job, that is why they really came to be with him. They were not “compassionate”, in the Biblical sense. The ancient words in Hebrew and Greek translated “compassion” mean “to suffer with”. They had no interest in entering into Jobs pain but in blaming him and his behavior for it. After all, they had this whole faith thing “figured out” and they were going to enlighten him with their higher knowledge. Sound familiar? Perhaps in contemporary circles they would have given him the “latest” teaching from their superstar pastor or the new speaker making the circuit who had it all figured out, along with some formulaic use of the bible.

Blessings,

R.G. Benjamin

Brother Benjamin wrote:

Jeff, Let's first establish the book of Job is about suffering. Next, lets make clear, in our Christian life we are to Count it all Joy James 1.

And did God in the end Praise Elihu? NO!

Brother Benjamin, I read your whole statement and have not found that you have rightly spoke of Elihu's standing before God. Why?

In Christ
Jeff

Jeff,

The God of Eliphaz and the others becomes in their petty and exacting thoughts how God relates with mankind. It’s a fatal misconception of all religious externalists and moralizers. Their God is always a small God.

God does not class Elihu with Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar (cf) (Job 42:7) but he is still a dogmatist, and his eloquent sermon is marred by self-assertiveness (Job 32:8,9; 33:3).

God does not mention Job’s wife either, who we know counseled Job to curse God and die. Does that mean God approved of what she said? NO!

God’s judgment of Elihu is that he darkened counsel by words (Job 38:2) the very charge that Elihu had brought against Job. (Job 34:35; 35:16). Also, the dialogue of God to Job is free from any of the accusations Elihu stated.

Jeff, no one was Born Again in the OT. These certainly lived by faith. We are told in Hebrews 11 that these all died not having received the PROMISE. The Promise was the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is the New Covenant Promise. The New Covenant came into effect at the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Blessings,

R.G. Benjamin

Jeff, Let's first establish the book of Job is about suffering.

I would suggest that Job is a book in which Satan suggests that God's people serve Him only when He blesses them or when things are favorable. There are many lessons in Job, but the one from the beginning to end is that Satan is a liar and God proves it.

Brother Benjamin wrote;

God’s judgment of Elihu is that he darkened counsel by words (Job 38:2) the very charge that Elihu had brought against Job. (Job 34:35; 35:16). Also, the dialogue of God to Job is free from any of the accusations Elihu stated.

This is not according to Scripture...

When God begins to speak out of the whirlwind, verse 2 of Job 38 is God's accusation against Job alone. We know this to be true because of Job's reply. Job confesses his guilt before God in the following Scripture...

Job 42:1 Then Job answered the LORD and said:
2 \t“I know that You can do everything,
\tAnd that no purpose of Yours can be withheld from You.
3 \tYou asked, “Who is this who hides counsel without knowledge?’
\tTherefore I have uttered what I did not understand,
\tThings too wonderful for me, which I did not know.

Please notice that in verse 3 above Job is the one who confesses to God not Elihu.

Here is a testimony given by Elihu...

Job 33
3 \tMy words come from my upright heart;
\tMy lips utter pure knowledge.
4 \tThe Spirit of God has made me,
\tAnd the breath of the Almighty gives me life.
5 \tIf you can answer me,
\tSet your words in order before me;
\tTake your stand.
6 \tTruly I am as your spokesman before God;
\tI also have been formed out of clay.
7 \tSurely no fear of me will terrify you,
\tNor will my hand be heavy on you.

Do you believe Elihu's testimony is true?

In Christ
Jeff

Are you the brother who once lived in, was it Topanga Canyon, wrote:

I'm laughing, not at you brothers, just in the joy of finding Messiah, finding Jesus all thru the Tanakh,

Jesus is the Holy One of Israel found throughout the OT.

Look up Jacob Prasch for his teaching of Christ in the OT.

God Bless
Jeff

Hi Sis,

Specifically, I am requesting that you change your style (if only for me) from asking questions about OT texts, to a declamation of your belief on this point.

I believe what these Scriptures say...
14 \tFor God may speak in one way, or in another,
\tYet man does not perceive it.
15 \tIn a dream, in a vision of the night,
\tWhen deep sleep falls upon men,
\tWhile slumbering on their beds,
16 \tThen He opens the ears of men,
\tAnd seals their instruction.
17 \tIn order to turn man from his deed,
\tAnd conceal pride from man,
18 \tHe keeps back his soul from the Pit,
\tAnd his life from perishing by the sword.
19 \t“Man is also chastened with pain on his bed,
\tAnd with strong pain in many of his bones,
20 \tSo that his life abhors bread,
\tAnd his soul succulent food.
21 \tHis flesh wastes away from sight,
\tAnd his bones stick out which once were not seen.
22 \tYes, his soul draws near the Pit,
\tAnd his life to the executioners.
23 \t“If there is a messenger for him,
\tA mediator, one among a thousand,
\tTo show man His uprightness,
24 \tThen He is gracious to him, and says,
\t“Deliver him from going down to the Pit;
\tI have found a ransom’;
25 \tHis flesh shall be young like a child’s,
\tHe shall return to the days of his youth.
26 \tHe shall pray to God, and He will delight in him,
\tHe shall see His face with joy,
\tFor He restores to man His righteousness.
27 \tThen he looks at men and says,
\t“I have sinned, and perverted what was right,
\tAnd it did not profit me.’
28 \tHe will redeem his soul from going down to the Pit,
\tAnd his life shall see the light.
29 \t“Behold, God works all these things,
\tTwice, in fact, three times with a man,
30 \tTo bring back his soul from the Pit,
\tThat he may be enlightened with the light of life.

Identify the NT precepts in the above Scripture, how many can you find?

Here is a start...who in the NT declares He is the 'light of life."
God Bless
In Christ
Jeff

Jeff asked:

Do you believe Elihu's testimony is true?

Jeff, can you show anywhere else in scripture Elihu's testimony is true. Can you find anywhere God confirmed Elihu's Testimony?
Verse 3: Our hearts deceive us. And He said MY WORDS...not God's words, or the Spirit of the Lord is upon me to say this to you.
Verse 4: is true for all
Verse 5: Who made Elihu Job's Judge and Jury?
Verse 6: NO ONE is our spokesman before God except Jesus Christ.
Verse 7: Just exactly who does Elihu think he is?

Did he ever say...the Lord sent me to you, or I am a prophet?

When we go through suffering, as we all will, one must be very careful to avoid Elihu's coming along wanting to be your Holy Spirit and conscience.

Only those who have actually gone through any suffering KNOWING through these things we see more clearly the Holiness of God, and just how small we are in comparison. This is what God revealed to Job AND what Job confessed before God.

Jeff, what exactly does James say about Job?

James 5:10-12

10Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.

11Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

And what does James say about Elihu?

12But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.

I believe James is saying here, be very careful what you say to others going through the Fellowship of His sufferings!

Again Jeff, you used a couple verses in Job to somehow try to prove OT people were Born Again, and that there is some mystery in youthful flesh and answered prayer.

You totally missed the whole point of the book of Job. I believe James clarifies the meaning quite well!

Blessings,

R.G. Benjamin

Jeff,

For me to take [i]anything[/i] these three fellows say as being authoritative is dangerous, even though it [i]appears[/i] to be right on. The reason is God's testimony in Job 42:7,8:
"It came about after the LORD had spoken these words to Job, that the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, "My wrath is kindled against you and against your two friends, because you have not spoken of Me what is right as My servant Job has. 8"Now therefore, take for yourselves seven bulls and seven rams, and go to My servant Job, and offer up a burnt offering for yourselves, and My servant Job will pray for you For I will accept him so that I may not do with you according to your folly, because you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has. So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite went and did as the LORD told them; and the LORD accepted Job."

The Enemy will use truth, pervert it to get an hearing. Everytime. Hence, my reluctance to quote these OT windbags because it says they did not speak for God. Actually, while I find a lot of inspiring truth in their arguments, I will never quote them because God did not like their arguments.

My testimony about Job is that it teaches us so much about affliction and how other religious people will respond to your affliction. In Job 13:4 he calls these windbags 'physicians'. If indeed these fellows were doctors, they likely came with all their potions to treat Job's sores. They did what doctors do and sat back to see how it would work. So, when at the end of seven days and they saw no progress, they start out by saying it is because Job sinned ....Sound familiar? I think so....go through affliction and listen to all the 'comfort' that comes your way...

My understanding...

ginnyrose