I am persuaded that many great things have happened in China. I have not yet read Bro Yun's books yet. However I am interested in doing such and am looking into it. If anyone knows of any legitimate reasons why he may be false let me know! OR if you know of any strong reasons why we should receive him let me know!? If this guy is legit I think if I saw him I would try to touch the hem of his garment :) haha.
:) haha
yes indeed, this promises to be a most edifying thread should anybody take the bait.
what joy.
?
Sorry Natan, I did not mean that in a mocking way only lightheartedly and not in any way making fun of anyone. I apologize that it came off that way and regret not writing more clearly. It is sometime hard to express myself clearly in text though not an excuse next time I will be more precise and diligent. Actually, I really respect and honor the work that is going on in China and was asking a serious question.
Read the book, I was blessed greatly by it, it caused me great joy, many sobbing tears and challenged me to walk closer to Jesus.
Brother Yun As Paul said " bears the marks of Jesus on his body" he suffered greatly for the name of Jesus. I don't agree with all his understanding of his experience, but my understanding is far from perfect also, God may change my mind on some things.
The Holy Spirit was all over me when I read it.
LOVE in CHRIST tom
It seems that Yun is in the midst of a theological war...a classical "Baptist/Pentecostal confrontation. Many Baptists, [and others] are taught that speaking in tongues is Satanic, and any supernatural manifestation is thereby the same..IE, of the devil.
It seems odd to me that you would post this without bothering to read the book, "The Heavenly Man"...[ a name given to him by his torturers.] However, I will give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume that you are sincere, and give you my take on the man.
I traveled to China in '07, being specifically led to the underground church. I went by faith, believing that I had heard from the Lord. I was influenced somewhat by the "Heavenly Man" book, but had plans for years before I read it.
I interviewed a brother for 3 days before I left..[unnamed] who knew Watchman Nee and T. Austin Sparks, and was still ministering to the Chinese church. I learned that there was, and is a passionate theological split in the Chinese Church, yet today, along the lines that I mentioned.
"Heavenly Man" was somewhat of an international sensation, and reheated the "brands", creating another firestorm in the battle. By nature, the "Baptist" position could not acknowledge Yun's testimony, for if they did, it would refute their entire belief system, and undermine everything that they have taught the churches. It had to be a lie, for God no longer manifests Himself in that way...[Prophetic and supernatural. He has left us the Word, and that is all we need.
I spent a couple of weeks in Hong Kong, and met an Australian fellow who smuggled bibles, who knew one of the main detractors of Hun; a famous author and Pastor who lived inland China, and offered to introduce me. I declined,as I wanted nothing to do with the Dogma and strife of it all.
I will say that there have been several well respected leaders of the underground Church, and those from the west that corroborate Hun's testimony. I have personally known a Chinese brother delivered in like fashion, now passed into Heaven....Timothy Lee, of Kansas City. I believe that God is still alive, and still delivers his people, and if He does it , I guarantee that it is super natural.
The grief that I have, is that their is so much hatred over this issue, and yes, Hun has been treated like the devil, and accused of lying; all over doctrinal stances. I personally bear witness to his testimony, and if you read the book, you would see his addition of personal failure in it's pages, and unbelief. He's just a man, that God delivered; not a superstar.
For the record, I went on to Hunan Province, in the exact area that Hun ministered in, and met the TRUE underground church..[ there sadly, is a false one also, that fleeces the west ..] They were beat down and broken, and were hanging on to Jesus , almost in desperation. What can you say to a people like that. I was humbled, and just washed their feet, and gave what comfort I could, from my faith.
The "Heavenly Man" was an edifying and encouraging book to me, and i believe true.
Thomasm,
thanks for sharing you experience in the matter.
Also, that is one of the kinds of proof that I am looking for and thanks for sharing it. I remember Richard Wurmbrand showing his scars. I would probably give it the benefit of the doubt, but I would feel much more assured if those scars and such were verified which I am sure they are I just wonder where. Thanks again!
Brothertom,
Well, I have studied of the Church in China and I believe I heard a translated sermon from Yun. It is just that I have had many books at hand and try to do some precursory study to things before I jump into them.
Thanks for sharing you experience it is very interesting and helpful. I guess I can read over his testimony and if he does speak of the things that Jesus would then I guess that would prove much and I would bet he does.
It is just a lofty thing that I have heard and lofty things often need some lofty testing.
I know there is always the baptist pentecostal division. I also know that there is also often a divide among those who believe gifts and such so I wonder if there is also that. What I mean is that there are those who believe in gifts that I would deem legit and still others who do that I would feel were in error going to extremes or other things.
If all these things are true what a testimony they are!
I saw this video of people greeting Yun and that is why it came to my mind to say touch the hem of his garment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcQz3llp5X4
By the way BrotherTom if you have written longer on the subject of you visiting China I'd like to read it.
I'm sorry. Forgive me, didnt mean to seem churlish. I just grieve over the way some threads tend towards the devouring of one another.
I stand in awe of the Chinese Church, especially in light of the persecution they get from our main "trading partner", the peoples republic of china, just a commie nation, but since they make cheap stuff, oh we love 'em!
sorry, got off topic, investigate the ministry of John Sung, an amazing life's work for Jesus, this humble saint...inspiring!
your brother in Christ, neil (contrite)
Brothertom, that was a wonderful testimony, thank you and May the Lord bless you, neil
Natan.
no problem I understand.
John Sung huh...
I just finished reading this book week ago. I read it in several days. I was extremely encouraged to read it.
watch these
Repentcanada,
Nice. Thanks for sharing.
Hmmmm,
Yes! I know of those video very well. Watching those are what moved me to further inquire to Yun. Those were some of the most infuential and raw witnesses I have ever seen! (The Cross in China from chinasoul.org)
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