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How To Find A Good Church !!!

S
sonofthunder Jun 10, 2009

Please Notice from the outset how i "headed up" this artcle with the words "Good church" and not perfect church? The quest or the desire on the part of the individual to find a good sound bible believing church is by no means an unreasonable request. Especially in light of growing apostasy, in light of famine, And in view of them that gather to themselves teachers who will accomodate those "itching ears" for the TIME will come when they will NO longer ENDURE sound doctrine. Mmmm. One has to wonder if that time "to come" is not the "now" and present? I think to ask the question, is to answer it!

I know and am persuaded brethren in my OWN heart that this is the struggle of many, that is to find a good solid church in their local area and hometown. In fact: This was my experience recently after years of fellowshipping with the assemblies of God church - which is apparently for all intents and purposes the largest and fastest growing pentecostal church slash/ movement - in the known evangelical world!! (well apparently)

However: I would not be ever so tedious or desire clemency of the readers as to trouble them with all the details - as to why i left that movement (and by the way so much for the notion by that i am a cessationist) suffice to say i agonized over leaving that work , it was not an easy decision. And mind you after giving literally heart and soul in many ways to that assembly for years. And having made numerous and many wonderful friendships which to this day - i still keep and am cordial with that flock! along also with the actual senior pastor of that work. So in light of that it was no small decision or light decision for me to leave: However it was confirmed to me in dream that i would be moving on - and so for a time and season in God i would be in transit (in a manner of speaking) and in fact all this was powerfully confirmed to me by an angel of the Lord that appeared to me in dream one night ( the night visions) with powerful confirmation !! knowing how much i agonized over leaving this particular group of peoples the confirmation came, i believe from heaven! In fact in a lot of ways it was just killed me to leave! it was truly an emotive time in God! (it should be understood i don't place a lot of emphasis on dreams or angels coming to men, or on the hearing of voices, or the infamous addage "God told me" ) But trust me this was one of those instances and in the Lord, times where it was unmistakably clear! and so concise! And so from that point on i doubted nothing, and the spirit bade me GO and i had the peace of God.

And so the journey began: And like the children of israel wandering through the wilderness dessert for forty years ...when if the truth were known (the promised land) was only an estimated 40 kilometer journey away - Yet did they go round and round and round in circles and never spinning out into the land that flowed with milk and honey. But the good news is there is a way out and there is an escape if we truly seek one, and want it ( badly enough ) In fact if you do find yourself in similiar waters to mine...having come out of a good church - gone bad! or for whatever reasons you have left -- know this! He will still guide your life and hold you in the palm of his hand (Glory) and eventually bring you into some green pastures. Failing that he will send good christian fellowship your way in the interim period to hold you up and anchor you in your faith. Until you get clear direction again! I know this to be true in my own life! (so take heart) In fact he often supplies tremendous support and intimate fellowship from brothers youve known from all over!! And gives times of re-unions as we catch up with long time friends in that interim period. And to be frank i have often got more from these encounters than i did from going to some local church. (however i do not solicit that as a long term solution or an alternative to a local assembly)

Now having said all that: I am not recommending church hopping or church shopping or being independant as such! nor being the christian loneranger! But in the times and seasons of God he simply does move us on -- or we feel that the present church and its direction no longer meets our needs. Ecet. And so in very real veritable way we reach an impasse as it were! and for a season in God we might find ourselves in transitional ... upon which it may be some time, yay, considerable time before we settle again and place our roots.

Sometimes you will encounter criticism or misunderstandings by fellow christians in the meantime who accuse of you of roaming or the pro-verbial "spiritual gypsy" "nomad" "vagabond" we have all heard the uncharitable terms that dont seem to understand nor wish to extend grace! except to have you down as unstable or they wont submit. ecet. But they themselves including pastors often spend months relocating and gaining new direction after they resign from a pastorate. I know of such a case myself recently where it took months for this particular man (minister) to re-establish himself and to hit the ground running again! after so long a time not having "a home church" himself. So criticism is easy anybody can do it, and anybody can dish it out but an understanding heart and compassionate ears are not always as forthcoming. Again we need to be careful here as you often hear these authoritative voices saying " who is your covering " and " who is your pastor " and immediately one feels like hiding under a rock or you begin to cringe as a naughty boy who got caught with his hand in the lolly jar! and now awaits discipline and the penalty from the parents. Often pastors and shepherds (themselves) will at times leave a work and have no spiritual home for a season! So again we need to delay judging until we understand all of the reasons and facts why someone left a church!!!

( How then can we find a good church )???

And What is reasonable expectation without seeking perfection in a work which doesnt exist anyway.

Well in answer to that i hope to bring TO YOU THE READER some guidelines and ADVICE. It should be clearly understood that i do not profess to have all the answers - Nor will i be covering every angle to this PERPLEXING AND DIFFICULT dilemna. So in light of that: If you find yourself without a "home" church which of itself can be a distressing time for such individuals and who are not necessarily just "copping out" then hopefully this small article may be of some help to you today?

Do i believe in having a home church or being planted in a local church?? some would say that is pretty much (a given) - in other words to ask the question is to answer it! meaning yes of course they should have a home church and belong to a local chuch - and be totally committed to it. And yes I too can see the benefits of growing together and connecting, and the eyes needing the ears, and the ears needing the smelling. ecet. So yes there are many great and significant benefits to having a localized home fellowship and church. So yes i do support the teaching on being connected to a local work. However: I am not as rigid or perhaps as tight on that view as others. but im not against it either. I do however believe one is free to move about and to visit other assemblies and works. Upon having have a base home church. And secondly i don't believe you have to get the pastor's permission to necessarily (come and go) or to leave that work for another! However it is just plain courtesy and respect to leave in a way that you communicate your intentions - to move on, rather than just cut ties and say nothing. Paul the apostle who was a journeyman and messenger worker for Christ that went from city to city ....however he would say to the saints (i am hoping - you will bring me, on the way) i am hoping i have your blessing! and i am hoping you let me go in the Lord -- without conflict or dissension!!

But just on that point: when they wouldn't let him go to jerusalem for fear of capture of the jews -- he stood his ground and was resilient that he knew God's will and he was still going against there wishes!! But they were a community in the early church and they cared and they watched over one another as a (safety net) in the Lord. As it can definitely be dangerous to become aloof or isolate oneself. And also we are not ignorant of satns devices.

( Essential pre-requisties of a good church )

No1. Do they abide in the doctrine of christ?
According to the apostle John this is not a take or leave it situation - but we must honour christ's words and his commands and his charges and more importantly his doctrine. And remember jesus said his doctrine was NOT his OWN...BUT his that sent him....so christ's doctrine was the very oracle of the father - and Not just human opinion. And in view of that it is imperitive a good church is magnifying and exalting all that christ taught and commanded to the disciples and to follow all the ordinances given by the apostles -- such as baptism and the breaking of the bread, and the cup of blessing. ecet (and oh of course the COMMAND to love each other) !! let's not forget that one....

No2. Do they preach a full gospel ??
It's a temtation today for a church and it's ministers to sell out to a half-gospel or say that which only tickles or excites the ear! the feel good gospel that validates you and your "felt needs" However Paul said im free from the blood of all men ...as i have not shunned to declare the WHOLE counsel of God! And not just the bits that tittalate the sense realm! I once made the statement that it was easy to spot a false prophet today because the false prophet tells people what they want to hear, and not necessarily what they NEED to hear. Also we began the article today if you will re-call by saying the time will come when they gather to themselves SELECTIVE TEACHERS who they will excite the hearers. Hence: An entertaining service today seems to be the order of the day. When a preacher cracks to many jokes and funnies being both light and fliipant - then it is time to consider change!

3. Does the church acknowledge Christs' headship?
If Jesus the great shepherd of the sheep and the very CAPTAIN of our salvation and high priest over the house of God aS one THAT walks among the seven lampstands which is the seven churches of asia? OR IS HIS ROLE BEING USURPED BY THE SHEPHERD? Scripture is clear on this that christ is the head of the church, WHICH IS his body!! But ahh: i thought the pastor was THE HEAD? and everyone tells me they are (shepherds over us) and they now take the place of Jesus in the earth ...as the door TO THE the sheepfold - upon which we ourselves go in and out, by them?? TRUE OR FALSE? Well did Jesus say to peter feed YOUR sheep peter? or feed "MY" sheep ( WHO OWNS THE SHEEP? THE PASTOR - OR tHE FATHER?) And did not this selfsame apostle peter also say if you do rule well then when (the chief shepherd) appears you will recive fom him -- a crown of glory WHICH WILL NEVER FADE AWAY - AND for good oversight?
In third John we have a picture of a shepherd who was controling the people AND whom they saw and whom they campanied with -- and also forbidding fellowship with johns company! AND IF ANY WERE SEEN TO BE FELLOWSHIPPING WITH JOHNS COMPANY THEN DIOTROPHES WOULD EX-COMMUNICATE THEM. John says beloved follow not that which is EVIL but that (example) which is good. (No) pastors are not TO BE SEEN AS mini pontiffs! or mini pharoahs! over the children of God! they are not to be mini dictators who throw there weight around and control and call all the shots IN THE CHURCH ( AND seek to be pre-eminent) they are nurturers of the flock -- and watch over peoples souls....not as LORDS over the flock either!!! Do the elders and pastors acknowledge the headship of christ? just as God is head over christ and the man is head of the woman, and chRist is head of HIS church? mmmm


No4. Do they have an evangelical thrust?
If a church has no concern for the lost or has no plan or straTegy to see souls won for christ or no desire AND burden for missions (the great commission) -- then that church is a church that has lost IT'S focus! Jesus came to seek and to save that which is lost. He came to SAVE lives!
I must work the works of him that sent me whilst it is still to day, the night cometh when no man can work. Now whilst we acknowledge that the assembly -- the church is primarily a learning and teaching centre where gifts function and the word is preached and the ordinaces are kept Ecet. And it is rare thing probably that the unlearned and the unbeliever should come in! though not improbable! it does happen. However: that said our burden, vision and stategy must be one of going forward with a desire to see souls won to christ -- and partake of this blessed eternal life we possess. Ive been to places and assemblies that are so "in love" with knowledege and doctrine...that they virtually lose sight of (the one great need) of mankind ( saving lives ) and they think that by aligning themselves with someone passing through there assembly and having taken up the torch in another country to witness for christ -- that that somehow (makes them) mission focused and evangelism orientated! or by sending out tracts into mailboxes this somehow passes off as fulfilling the role to reach the lost and so they have done there "bit" so to speak. Now Im not being down on anyone or being critical as such... but if i may so say -- i would caution you against a church or work that tries to take glory in another mans line of work ( also)!
We don't build upon other mens foundations nor should we as paul said in 2 corinthians 10:15 BOAST of things without OUR measure, that is, of OTHER MEN'S LABOURS ...VERSE 16 IS EVEN MORE ENLIGHTENING " TO PREACH the gospel in the regions beyond you, and not to BOAST ( THERES THAT WORD AGAIN - BOAST ) - IN ANOTHER MAN'S LINE OF THINGS - MADE READY TO OUR HAND. In other words someone else's work we seek to align ourselves to! without having really done the hard yards or gotten our OWN hands dirty. But here we are glorying in it , as our own work! Now i hesitate to say these things knowing i probably won't be popular -- for doing so .... or may risk being slammed of others. But The bottom line is the devil doesn't like to be xposed and people don't like being corrected -- nor the recieving of correction! I personally don't like being corrected! do you? but if in the end the intent is for my good .... i need to hear it, to listen, and to take heed. Ive been to works where when all is said and done and all is done and dusted....they don't really have any strategical plan for outreach, or regular on-going soul-winning plans in place, or no real missions outreach -- from there own assembly. Ecet. It's more just an attaching of yourself to someone else's work -- and that that church tries to glory in them! Beware of the churches that really just do nothing except grow fat on teaching and cause strife over doctrine....but don't have the same focus and urgency of Christ. SAVING LIVES.
TEACHING IS GOOD - BUT NOT IF IT CAUSES YOU TO LOSE VISION, PASSION, COMPASSION, AND A FOCUS OF SAVING SOULS...Paul said these ones are just glorying in other men and there work and yet want to be seen -- as the great heroes, and cash in on it (themselves) No church is a good church if it has no real plan for inner city outreach, or regular ( but no pressure ) on-going witnessing to the lost and needy. And No real concern for the great commission - which is our mission.

(( Reasonable expectations of a good church are:)

~~ Do they walk in love?? Is it present and apperent (we know we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren) furthermore peter instructed us to love the brotherhood! and paul said to recieve such ones in christ who are fellow helpers and labourers together with us! Is there love and acceptance or just ridiculous suspicion and a 22 question spanish inquistion of them??
~~ Do they teach holiness and seperation? are they jealous for inward and outward purity and stand against unequal yokes??
~~ Do they preach the centrality of the cross? do they not only hold to christ as the head but preach the message of the cross and it's centrality? If they don't then all's that will occur is this. They will breed (would be) disciples and followers that know a crossless-pentecost...
~~ Are they careful to maintain good works? Are they as a body of believers known for good works? both in the house of God and without in the community? fair question and fair to assume such things would be apperent. Let us do GOOD unto all men....especially them of the household of faith. Paul said TO THE Galations that the other apostles indeed gave me there blessing to go to the gentiles with the gospel of christ, but only that i, remember the poor, which indeed i was forward to DO.
~~ What about worship, music, dance and song? The church which is a good church will have music and songs that minister to the spirit of man... and not his flesh ....(as) God is a spirit, and they that worship him must worship him both in spirit and in truth!! The focus should not be on the platform or the singers or the musicians, but our focus must be on bringing glory to God! God will NOT share his glory with another! We need leadership in music and them that lead and this i accept and understand. But i do not accept todays current undue attention toward the music team or songleader(s) themselves -- or this business of clapping and applauding the choir as they appear on stage, to do there thing. Corinthians comes with a warning that those God choses are the weak, the base, the despised and the foolish....reason being?? so that NO flesh would glory in his prescence. Modern forms of worship need to be careful here -- i think. And i also personally dis-like camera crews who go from one music team member to the next to place them on the big screen (for all to notice and see) And I don't know if your like me and are old fashioned this way, but i (personally) despise anything which seeks to glory in the flesh, or that would steal honour - from God!!!

Brethren in the Lord these are just guidelines to assist and help people to find a good chuch!! and to them perhaps that came from a good church gone/ bad ... or a bad church now (period). My experience tells me that many churches are selling out to liberalism and modernism! or are tselling out to the "seeker sensitive model" or are selling out to the "consumer market driven concept" -- which is ever so popular today!

It may not be easy to find a good church in your area - and i understand that ( totally ) and it may take time to find a church that you feel is the right one! or moreover that God would have you settle and plant yourself in! At the moment i see a lot of this thing of people just going from church to church - and not really having what we would call a HOME!! LET ME JUST SAY I AM NOT HERE TO PASS JUDGMENT ON YOU - OR CAST SUSPICION OR ASPERSIONS ON YOU....AS DO OTHERS.

I encourage you to keep the faith of Christ and to keep on keeping on -- until you find out where to go, or simply what he wants, and where you fit in!! It can take time - so be patient, but above all else brethren -- do not isolate yourself as that can be a trap of the devil also!

( Finally is it wrong to think one should expect anything - from going to church, as such ) ??

In other words: Isn't it just plain selfish of us to have any expectations of going to church or to expect to find a good church? shouldn't we jus be going to give? And not recieve ?
Doesn't the fault lie with us? if we are ones that seek such things? mmmm. Good question actually, very good! As ive heard that put to me and to others many times! That at the end of the day we are there to serve, listen, submit, forbear each other, too love, and to bear one anothers burdens in christ! So what this busines of expecting anything in return? or of us wanting things? Why how flaming selfish! There is an element of truth to all that (true). Here's my position though: I concede that first and foremost we go to give to God - before men. We seek his praise and not the praise of men. But if paul warned of them who only wanted messages and teaching which scratches the ears -- and of them that can no longer endure sound doctrine and amos the prophet warned of a time when there would be a famine for hearing the truth and God's words ( not man's ) then it is not unreasonable, nor is it selfish to have a resonable expectation of what constitutes a good church!! If we subscribe to the addage of (go to give) and not recieve then the the cults and the dangerous church sects will be literally (NOW) rubbing there hands with glee, based on that concept alone. mmmm. (s.o.f)

sermonindex Jun 10, 2009

I would also add- Do they allow each member of the fellowhsip to minister to the brethren as they are called or gifted to? Do the teachers get to teach? Does everyone have a voice? If the freedom of the Lord isn't present, then He's not there.

S
sonofthunder Jun 10, 2009

yeah...good points of discussion !!!

sermonindex Jun 10, 2009

[url=http://frankviola.wordpress.com/2009/04/27/are-you-in-the-wilderness/]Are you in the wilderness?[/url]

I understand what you are going through. We left our church and the the whole institution a few months ago, we left our home church almost two years ago, and search for a "solid" church after, visiting several, but all the same. nevertheless the Lord confirmed to me that this is where I am to be. Atleast for now...I have found comfort with some on the internet and long distance phone calls for fellowship. I trust the Lord is doing a work in me, for his purpose and glory.

look forward to following this thread and discussing real thoughts and emotions.

Your brother
Mike

T
tozerite Jul 4, 2009

Ninety percent of the church is in the wilderness. God wants to take us out of Egypt and take Egypt out of us. He does that by bringing us to the Jordan, where we lay all on the altar, die to self, consecrate our all and receive his anointing. Christ means the anointed one. We are supposed to be the anointed ones. There is no anointing without the death experience. Salvation is life. Consecration is death.

It is a lie of the devil that we receive the full infilling of the Holy Ghost at our conversion. I’m not preaching Pentecostalism. I’m on safe ground with Martyn Lloyd Jones, DL Moody, Hudson Taylor, AW Tozer, Abraham, Isaac (the well of Laharoi), Jacob (wrestling with he angel), Isaiah, new testament church experience, etc. etc.

The church is trapped in hymnology that teaches we cross the Jordan when we die physically. They got that from the Greeks who wrote about death and the river Styx. You die spiritual when you cross the river Jordan and engage in spiritual warfare in sweet Beulaland. I’m in Canaan now. I have abundant life now.

Suggest this to a Baptist or evangelical pastor and he quickly turns a cold shoulder your way. Anyway, you can’t worship God, unless you worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. The Holy Spirit has all but disappeared from the lexicon of the church. I can show you a website (and can probably do the same) where a pastor takes the church through the book of Matthew verse-by-verse, posts the sermons on the website, and then conveniently skips Matthew 3:11 and 12, without any reference or explanation. It might as well not be in his Bible. “He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire.” What else may I cut out of my Bible?

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twayneb Jul 4, 2009

God sets us in the body in the place He has ordained us to be most fruitful. He gives us gifts and callings commiserate with that place in the body. Although is would be slightly out of context to apply 1 Cor. to what I am about to say, it does agree with general principle. Do you think He also sets us in a particular fellowship of believers, a "church" if you will, for precisely the same reason.

My wife and I were actively involved in a very good work. God began to tell us that our time there was over. We resisted for some time. In the natural, everything seemed to say we should stay. Finally, the Lord spoke to me and said, "Are you going to do what I said or not?" I immediately repented and said, "Yes sir!" Within 36 hours we were in the pastor's home telling him we were leaving. We went where God said to go, experienced some fruit, and finally left under not so great circumstances. We suffered rejection, some hurt, gossip, etc. Churches are composed of people you know. But, God had already prepared the ultimate place where he wanted to place us. He placed us in a body unlike any other I have ever experienced. We are now bearing much fruit, and can see His hand leading us toward His plans for us. God bless you as you find His place for you in the body.

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