karan wrote:
Ok well for a while now i have been thinking about the world coming to an end in the year 2012 i really cant say i believe it because well...lets face it i cant even count how many times people have said the world will end on different days.
I do think that we are setting are selfs up for an Early grave but thats besides the point.
So with all that being sead to you guys think the world will come to an end in the year 2012?
Please do not spam this topic i want this to be an honest debate.Thanks
This is an interesting topic. Me, personally, I do not think the world will end in 2012, but at the same time we are told: Matt 6:34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. The world may end in 2012, or it could very well end before then. Either way, we told to only take thought for the present day, and not worry about what tomorrow may bring, until tomorrow gets here.
However, I will say this. Something that I have been studying. Right now, on the Jewish/Hebrew Calendar, it is the year 5769. In the states it is the year 2009. In some of the writings of the Early Church Fathers, you can find statements of theirs, where they believe that just like God created the Heavens and the Earth in 6 days and rested the 7th-that the world would only last 6000 years and that last 1000 year, which would be the 7000 year would be the Millenial Reign of Christ. They believed that since 6 is the number of man, and that man was made on the 6th day, that man would have 6000 years on this earth. Also since the number of the name of the anti-christ is 666, it is believed that this man would appear somewhere close to or around the approach of the 6000 years of the earth in exisistance. This is how various scriptures were interpreted:
2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, [b]that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years[/b], and a thousand years as one day
Rev 20:4 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ [b]a thousand years[/b]. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
Gen 1:31 31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Gen 2:1[b]Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them[/b]. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from [b]all his work[/b] which he had made
It is understood, that when Genesis 2:1 say " Thus the heavens and the earth WERE FINISHED, and ALL the hose of them.." that this did not only refer to their end of physical creation-but even the end of their time and everything that is in between since God knows the end FROM the beginning-and in the beginning, he started with the end he already had in mind and allowed the events to play out in his order in the fullness of time. That thus creating the heavens and the earth and FINISHING them (that is the key, FINISHED)in 6 days, the beginning of the end in 6000 years. Thus you have Peter saying : 2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, [b]that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day[/b]
It is also important to realize that God was finished with the first man (Adam) on the 6th day. Here is copy of some of the early Church Father statements on what is known as the " The 6th Day Theory"
The “Six Day” Theory Precludes “Imminence”
One important reason the Church Fathers could not have believed in an "any moment" coming of Christ, is the "six-day theory." Many of the early ChurchFathers believed in the theory that the earth would continue for six thousand
years under the curse. The Millennium would be the Sabbath of rest.Consequently, they tried to calculate the time since creation, by using the
genealogies from the Old Testament, to calculate the approximate time of the
Lord's coming. It is noteworthy that even some of the Church Fathers, who are
alleged by pretribulationists to have believed in "imminence," taught this theory.
This theory is totally incompatible with the idea of imminence.
Epistle of Barnabas (Late 1st Century)
"And God made in six days the works of His hands, and made an end on the seventh day, and rested on it, and sanctified it." Attend, my children,
to the meaning of this expression, "He finished in six days." This implieth that the Lord will finish all things in six thousand years, for a day is with Him a thousand years. And He Himself testifieth, saying, "Behold, to-day will be as
a thousand years." Therefore, my children, in six days, that is, in six thousand years, all things will be finished. "And He rested on the seventh
day." This meaneth: when His Son, coming [again], shall destroy the time of the wicked man, and judge the ungodly, and change the-sun, and the
moon, and the stars, then shall He truly rest on the seventh day." 7
Commodianus: (AD. 240)
"This has pleased Christ, that the dead should rise again, yea, with their bodies; and those, too, whom in this world the fire has burned [martyrs],when six thousand years are completed,..." 8
Irenaeus: (AD. 120-202)
"For in as many days as this world was made, in so many thousand years shall it be concluded. And for this reason the Scripture says: "Thus the
heaven and the earth were finished, and all their adornment. And God brought to a conclusion upon the sixth day the works that He had made;
and God rested upon the seventh day from all His works." This is an account of the things formerly created, as also it is a prophecy of what is
to come. For the day of the Lord is as a thousand years; and in six days created things were completed: it is evident, therefore, [b]that they will come to an end at the sixth thousand year[/b]." 9
Cyprian: (AD. 200-258)
"You have desired, beloved Fortunatus that, since the burden of persecutions and afflictions is lying heavy upon us, and in the ending and
completion of the world the hateful time of Antichrist is already beginning to draw near, I would collect from the sacred Scriptures some exhortations for preparing and strengthening the minds of the brethren, whereby I
might animate the soldiers of Christ for the heavenly and spiritual contest.... For he cannot be a soldier fitted for the war who has not first
been exercised in the field; nor will he who seeks to gain the crown of contest be rewarded on the racecourse, unless he first considers the use
and skillfulness of his powers. It is an ancient adversary and an old enemy with whom we wage our battle: [b]six thousand years are now nearly
completed since the devil first attacked man[/b]. All kinds of temptation, and
arts, and snares for his overthrow, he has learned by the very practice of
long years. If he finds Christ’s soldier unprepared, if unskilled, if not careful
and watching with his whole heart; he circumvents him if ignorant, he
deceives him incautious, he cheats him inexperienced. But if a man,
keeping the Lord’s precepts, and bravely adhering to Christ, stands
against him, he must needs be conquered, because Christ, whom that
man confesses, is unconquered." 10
Methodius: (AD. 260-312)
"For a thousand years in Thy sight are but as yesterday: seeing that is past
as a watch in the night." For when a thousand years are reckoned as one day in the sight of God, and from the creation of the world to His rest is six days, [b]so also to our time, six days are defined, as those say who are clever
arithmeticians. Therefore, they say that an age of six thousand years extends from Adam to our time[/b]. For they say that the judgment will come
on the seventh day, [b]that is in the seventh thousand years[/b]." 11
Lactantius: (AD. 260-330)
"But we, whom the Holy Scriptures instruct to the knowledge of the truth, know the beginning and the end of the world, respecting which we will
now speak in the end of our work, since we have explained respecting the beginning in the second book. Therefore let the philosophers, who
enumerate thousands of ages from the beginning of the world, [b]know that
the six thousandth year is not yet completed, and that when this number is completed the consummation must take place, and the condition of
human affairs be remodeled for the better[/b], the proof of which must first be related, that the matter itself may be plain. [b]God completed the world and this admirable work of nature in the space of six days, as is contained
in the secrets of Holy Scripture, and consecrated the seventh day, on which He had rested from His works. But this is the Sabbath-day, which in
the language of the Hebrews received its name from the number, whence the seventh is the legitimate and complete number. For there are
seven days, by the revolutions of which in order the circles of years are
made up; and there are seven stars which do not set, and seven luminaries which are called planets, whose differing and unequal
movements are believed to cause the varieties of circumstances and times.
[b]Therefore, since all the works of God were completed in six days, the
world must continue in its present state through six ages, that is, six thousand years[/b]. For the great day of God is limited by a circle of a
thousand years, as the prophet shows, who says "In Thy sight, O Lord, a thousand years are as one day." [b]And as God labored during those six days in creating such great works, so His religion and truth must labor during these six thousand years, while wickedness prevails and bears rule. And again, since God, having finished His works, rested the seventh day and blessed it, at the end of the six thousandth year all wickedness must be abolished from the earth, and righteousness reign for a thousand
years; and there must be tranquillity and rest from the labors which the world now has long endured[/b].... Perhaps some one may now ask when
these things of which we have spoken are about to come to pass? [b]I have
already shown above, that when six thousand years shall be completed this change must take place, and that the last day of the extreme conclusion is now drawing near[/b]. It is permitted us to know respecting the signs, which are spoken by the prophets, for they foretold signs by which
the consummation of the times is to be expected by us from day to day, and to be feared. When, however, this amount will be completed, those
teach, who have written respecting the times, collecting them from the
sacred writings and from various histories, how great is the number of
years from the beginning of the world. And although they vary, and the
amount of the number as reckoned by them differs considerably, yet all
expectation does not exceed the limit of two hundred years. The subject
itself declares that the fall and ruin of the world will shortly take place;
except that while the city of Rome remains it appears that nothing of this
kind is to be feared. But when that capital of the world shall have fallen,
and shall have begun to be a street, which the Sibyls say shall come to
pass, who can doubt that the end has now arrived to the affairs of men
and the whole world? It is that city, that only, which still sustains all things;
and the God of heaven is to be entreated by us and implored - if, indeed,
His arrangements and decrees can be delayed - lest, sooner than we
think for, that detestable tyrant should come who will trader-take so great
a deed, and dig out that eye, by the destruction of which the world itself
is about to fall. Now let us return, to set forth the other things which are
then about to follow." 12
[b]"For six thousand years have not yet been completed, and when this
number shall be made up, then at length all evil will be taken away, that
justice alone may reign[/b]." 13
As is apparent from the preceding quotations, some believed they were only a
hundred or so years from the second coming and the Millennium. Others
believed the time was very near. Their was a serious problem with their
calculations, however. They were all based on the Old Testament they were
familiar with, the Greek Septuagint [LXX]. This version differs dramatically from
the Hebrew text regarding the ages of the Patriarchs when they begat children,
the LXX giving much longer life spans. For example, if you add up the life spans
of the patriarchs in Genesis eleven, from the flood to the birth of Abraham, there
was 292 years according to the Hebrew Masoretic text. But, according to the
Septuagint, there was over 1,000 years. Consequently, the early Christians, using
the Septuagint version, were off by about 1,500 years. Since they did not use the
Hebrew Scriptures which give the correct years, they did not know the
completion of the six thousand years was more than 1,500 years away. So they
looked for the appearing of Antichrist and the signs that would signal Christ's
return in their generation.
Theophilus: (AD. 115-181)
"And from the foundation of the world the whole time is thus traced, so far
as its main epochs are concerned. From the creation of the world to the
deluge were 2242 years. And from the deluge to the time when Abraham
our forefather begat a son, 1036 years. And from Isaac, Abraham’s son, to
the time when the people dwelt with Moses in the desert, 660 years. And
from the death of Moses and the rule of Joshua the son of Nun, to the
death of the patriarch David, 498 years. And from the death of David and
the reign of Solomon to the sojourning of the people in the land of
Babylon, 518 years 6 months 10 days. And from the government of Cyrus
to the death of the Emperor Aurelius Verus, 744 years. All the years from
the creation of the world amount to a total of 5698 years, and the odd
months and days." 14
If you look on a Jewish Calendar now, it is the year 5769. I cannot say if that is accurate or not, but what I can say, is if it it accurate-and if the The 6th day Theory is true, then the world would have about 231 years left till the end of time. This theory did not go against what Christ said in Matt 24:36:
Matt 24:36 But of that [b]day and hour[/b] knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, [b]until the day that Noe entered into the ark[/b], 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
The 6th Day Theory did not specifically label or predict a day and hour when the world would end-it just stated that all the days of the earth would be 6000 years and that would be the end. Another interesting thing about this, is Jesus mentions "...until Noah entered the ark.."-well, if we remember, Noah entered the ark on the 17th DAY-, but the flood came 7 days after God warned Noah. Jesus spoke of his coming and the end in comparision to Noah entering the ark-in which, Noah rested the 7th Day entering the ark of God. Also, we might remember, Noah was.......600 years old too.
Gen 7 And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation. 2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female. 3 Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth. 4 [b]For yet seven days[/b], and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; [b]and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth[/b].
5 And Noah did according unto all that the LORD commanded him. 6 [b]And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth[/b]. 7 And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood. 8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, 9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah. 10 [b]And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth[/b].
11 [b]In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened[/b]. 12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
Again, I am not stating this as 100% truth, but just as something I have learned, and have been studying.
Right now, on the Jewish Calendar it is the year 5769, that leaves about 231 years possibly left......
I hope this helps :-)
