CAN BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS LOOSE SALVATION and END UP IN HELL?

CAN BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS LOOSE SALVATION and END UP IN HELL?

yes i believe scripture says it is possible, iin many parables and many illustrations from old testament, in the apostles letters all have some things showing there is such a possibility, And i think Revelation shows it is possible without a doubt. But I also believe it is utter impossible as long as we want to be saved and continually come to him, and hold fast, take heed, make our election sure, abiding in him.... all through his grace and mercy then we can never be lost ever, but for those who dont do that i am not so sure.

But i am not sure :-) and having discussed this to many times i just wanted to answer your question that have the possibility to easy "get out of line", so in all discussion remember

And if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know. (1Co 8:2 NKJ)

just posted that in another thread, but it ggoes well with this issue also

God bless you and keep you all

There are two sides on this issue: a definite "YES" camp and a definite "No" camp. Both are not short of scriptures to back their cause.

I know lovely and gracious believers on both sides of the issue.

I don't think it is an emphatic "NO", because there are too many scriptures that support the "YES" camp.

I just read this morning in 2 Samuel 7:15: "But my mercy shall not depart away from him (David), as I took it from Saul, whom I put away from thee."

Oh, that's Old Testament, many will say. I'm not sure one can dismiss it so easily.

As for me, I'm abiding in Him to keep a clear conscience and ensure I don't trample on His grace and mercy.

It is better to walk in the fear of the Lord, than go around and boast "once saved always saved."

No, and to believe otherwise is blasphemy against God's character and should be repented of promptly.

With care in Christ,
Taylor

Re: CAN BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS LOOSE SALVATION and END UP IN HELL?

Yes, I believe they can.

My personal belief is that this teaching has done more harm then we will ever begin to imagine on this earth and the implications are exactly what Matt 23.15 speaks of.

I live in the Bible belt and I have to listen to this teaching of: "your past, present and future sins are forgiven." [b]Where is the Scripture that EXPLICITLY supports that our future sins are forgiven?[/b]

Thank you and God bless you,

Taylor,

I'm halfway in your camp, but please exlain your interpretation of 2 Sam 7:12, 1 Cor 6:9, and Hebrews 6:4 - 6.

Mahoney wrote:

So how does this teaching differ from Roman Catholic teaching on justification.

A great deal i would say, in Joh 3:16 we se the word beliveth, this greek verb does not exist in swedish or english, the best way to describe it is to say he who believes and continue to believe.

So we are justified by faith, its a gift from God by if neglected or abandoned as any gift, i am not sure such people will be in heaven. The greatest warning and one of the things that settled it for me is pauls warning about the isralites, scripture and Paul says that

1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
1Co 10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

All had a part in Christ, they drank living water from Christ, yet what happened to them?

let it serve us as a warning and en encouragement to make our "election and calling sure".

1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

My question was specifically directed toward brothertom's teaching that sin can nullify the righteous standing of a truly regenerate/born-again individual.

I dont believe one sin is enough, just as one righteous act will not make some one righteous.

We are talking about truly born-again, raised from the dead believers, brought to life by the Spirit of God, free from the condemnation of the law because they are in Christ who already bore the Wrath of God (...looked upon the suffering of His soul and he was satisfied) and paid the just penalty for sin. We are talking about these people losing their righteous standing before God.

yes, these where the people Paul wrote his letter to, giving them a warning that the Israelites had drinken from the spiritual rock wich was Christ, they had received from Christ, eaten and drinken from HIM, they where not false converts, they had part in Christ, yet did not reach the destination God had chosen for them. He uses this example for a reason and to me i think it is possible once to stand right in Gods eyes and in the end stepped outside that place to where we are not right. I leave room for that possibility and see it in scripture.

The death of Christ paid the just penalty for sin and covers the sin of that individual.

yes this is true, but if a truly born again beliver choses to depart from the faith due to he want the world or sin more? please himself rather then God? i dont believe this happends without God chastens us and by his grace and goodness offers multitudes of opportunities for repentance, but since love is a free choice, and if God would justify me without me wanting him to, or if he want to keep me when i dont want to be kept, that could not be love, that would contradict Gods very essence of who he is and would be a violation of his character.

I have no problem with all of the warnings in the bible because all they will do for a truly born-again individual is cause them to cling more and more to Christ. Faith is a position of weakness.

i agree, but if the warnings do not really warn from a real danger why even write and warn someone when they are in no real danger anyway? it does not seem logical? and if we never ever under any circumstances or reasons can be in any danger, i think every letter maybe except phillipians and colossians are just a waste of paper, since it does not really matter wheter you read and take heed to the warnings since they can not effect your eternity anyway.

I know these are broad strokes, but this is what i see :-) we see it differently but it is ok, i have not figured out when and exactly how someone can lose their salvation, but i am completely sure it can take place and leaves room for such a possibility.

Mahoney wrote:

I dont believe one sin is enough, just as one righteous act will not make some one righteous.

One sin condemned the entire human race.

You are right, one righteous act will not make anyone righteous...500 righteous acts cannot make a person righteous, only faith in Christ.

amen, i just wanted to show the utter stupidity to think one sin will cast someone out from heaven.

I have not figured out when and exactly how someone can lose their salvation

The question arises now as to when this happens; how many sins must be committed before God irretrievably withdraws and consigns the once-regenerated believer back to eternal damnation? The Word isn't clear on this. But the warning seems to be there - as befuddling as it may be as to how it actually occurs. When Jesus assured the thief that he would be in paradise, was there a remote chance that a roque, sinful thought might disqualify him from the promise before he died?

Since it is the Spirit of God that ever spurs us onward to repentance from dead works and desiring to do the Father's will - even if we are sorely and frequently missing the mark - it would have to be the effects of the absence of the Spirit that relegates a person back into the depths of nondesire for the things of God.

More thoughts to come - wife and son are calling.

I know I'm new here but after reading your post I couldn't help but reply. Especially on "the stupidity to think one sin will cast someone out from heaven".

Please let us reason together! How many sins did the devil and his angels need? How many sins did it take Adam and Eve? How many sins would it have taken our Lord? How much sin is in heaven? This is not a hard thing to understand. One unrepentant sin, is enough. Let's just take one specific unrepentant sin. Unforgiveness- The Lord said if you don't forgive others neither will my Father forgive you. The key is repentance (or unrepentance) not the amount of sin or sins you commit. But I would venture to say that if you are living a daily sin and repent type of Christianity then at worst you aren't even saved, and at best are completely ignorant of the power we have in Christ to live Holy lives, through the Holy Spirit.

Danman wrote-But I would venture to say that if you are living a daily sin and repent type of Christianity then at worst you aren't even saved,and at best are completely ignorant of the power we have in Christ to live Holy lives, through the Holy Spirit.

___

Question about what you shared above? Doesn't the Lord open our eyes and hearts to sin in our life so that we might repent? Doesn't He open our eyes to sin that we ourselves may not even be aware of until He shows us? There are times when I find myself very often seeking Gods face and asking forgiveness for sin that just a day or even a few hours ago I was not aware of. There have been times when I stumble and might loose my temper, I may speak harshly toward my husband and the Holy Spirit quickens to my heart that I am in sin, so I repent. Not sure I understand what you wrote above?
rdg

rainydaygirl wrote:
Question about what you shared above? Doesn't the Lord open our eyes and hearts to sin in our life so that we might repent? Doesn't He open our eyes to sin that we ourselves may not even be aware of until He shows us? There are times when I find myself very often seeking Gods face and asking forgiveness for sin that just a day or even a few hours ago I was not aware of. There have been times when I stumble and might loose my temper, I may speak harshly toward my husband and the Holy Spirit quickens to my heart that I am in sin, so I repent. Not sure I understand what you wrote above?
rdg

[i]Doesn't the Lord open our eyes and hearts to sin in our life so that we might repent?[/i]

Yes, He does but it is up to us if we really want to obey that leading to repent or not; or do we want to pet that sin in our life a little bit longer? (Do we want to think about that tomorrow, like Scarlet?)

[i]For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;[/i]
Romans 1.18

Notice it says, "[b]who hold the truth in unrighteousness[/b]." They have the truth and hold it "IN" unrighteousness.

[i]Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful;[/i]
Romans 1.21a

People can try to explain this away but it says as plain as my eyes see it, "[b]when they knew God[/b], they glorified him not as God." They knew God but they decided somewhere along the line to not glorify Him and begin to take it for themselves. I don't think this is a one time thing, it is a habitual non-glorifying of God.

Again, this doesn't sound like you at all, not from your posts.

God bless you!!

rainydaygirl wrote:
There have been times when I stumble and might loose my temper, I may speak harshly toward my husband and the Holy Spirit quickens to my heart that I am in sin, so I repent.

I do not know how many unrepentant sins God will put up with. I believe that He will put up with none in heaven but here on earth, how long He lets us live continuing in our sins is entirely up to Him... while He tries to reign us in that we might be like Christ but I do believe that there is a point where we turn a blind eye to Him and what He is trying to do in us.

I believe this is represented by the following verses.....

[i]/They perish/ because they did not receive the love of the truth in order to be saved.
For this reason God sends them a strong delusion so that they will believe what is false, so that all will be condemned––those who did not believe the truth but enjoyed unrighteousness.[/i]
2 Thess 2.10-12 HCSB

I do NOT believe that this verse is reserved for the unsaved because it says the love of the truth came to them but they didn't [b]"receive"[/b] it.

It also doesn't say how many times God sent the love of the truth about something nor does it say HOW many truths [b]about ourselves[/b] He sent before we stop hearing and He sends us a strong delusion.

I don't believe that God sends the ALL encompassing truth to us and like a computer we download it! I believe He sends us what we can handle but it's up to us to believe Him and in the work that wants to do in us. Only believe.

[i]For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.[/i]
Hebrews 4.3

I hope this makes sense and please know that I don't believe that I have all knowledge on this subject (I know I don't!); this is just how I understand it according to the question you asked. I hope it helps but if it doesn't, toss it out!

I know there is millions of opinions on this but this is my opinion. If salvation can be lost, this requires a reversal of regeneration. This means the born again must become unborn again. And if they subsequently repent, then they must become born again again. Can a man also be born again again again? Where does it end? Is regeneration really so transient?
If salvation can be lost, "eternal life" cannot be eternal life. It could only be temporary hope for eternal life that couldn't become eternal life until after we die. As long as we're still here, how can we call "eternal" what can be lost? Scripture says believers currently have eternal life, not that we might eventually have eternal life. It says that the life we have is eternal, not possibly or potentially eternal (or "to be determined" by whether we manage to keep or lose it). It says we can know that we have eternal life (1 John 5:13). How can we know that if our salvation isn't secure?
If we can lose our salvation, we can also keep it—by abstaining from whatever it takes to lose it. This makes it at least partially dependent on our merits. This flies in the face of Scripture's teaching that salvation is a miraculous work of God, dependent on Him, not us.