Contemplative Spirituality & The New Conscience????

The EMERGENT (EMERGING) CHURCH IS ON THE MOVE, AND IN THE NEWS!

Will the "New Science" Prove that God is in All Things?

In a July 4th article in the San Antonio Express-News, it features Thomas Keating,[b]a Catholic monk who has been instrumental in bringing contemplative spirituality out of the monasteries to the layperson. In the article, Keating conveyed what contemplative mystics have been saying for centuries: mysticism is the common ground among all the world's religions.[/b]

[b][color=990000]This article illustrates why Lighthouse Trails is so concerned about the huge role contemplative spirituality is now playing in evangelical and Protestant churches. We believe that this will ultimately lead to what the Bible calls the mystery of iniquity (i.e., the occult: essentially the belief that man and God are identical). Thomas Merton, another Catholic contemplative monk, put it this way: "The contemplative experience is neither a union of separate identities nor a fusion of them; on the contrary, separate identities disappear in the All Who is God."1[/color][/b]

The San Antonio article, "Monk says contemplative prayer like 'resting in God'" talks about the relationship between science and religion, a topic that is slowly gaining momentum these days:

"Science is discovering the oneness of the source of all the material universe as we know it, and by the oneness that appears in all structural forms of life and then the oneness that the spiritual practice of contemplative prayer brings in recognizing our commonality, our common ground with all other human beings and indeed all of nature."

When the article says "the oneness of the source of all the material universe," it is referring to what some are calling the "new sciences" or the "spiritual sciences." This new science is hoping to convince society that every cell in the universe is connected to one another and that by practicing contemplative prayer (going into the silence) one will awaken to realize this universal oneness.

It is coincidental that this article comes out the same time Lighthouse Trails releases A "Wonderful" Deception by Warren Smith. Smith identifies the character of this "new science" in his new book. Smith asks what would rationalize Christian leaders to embrace a "new worldview that would mesh Christianity with the New Age/New Spirituality and other religions." He says the "answer might very well come through the 'new science' and the 'new math'--quantum physics, chaos theory, and fractal theory--the 'new science' attempt to scientifically prove that God is not only 'transcendent' but also 'immanent'--that God is 'in' everything (AWD, p. 165).

The San Antonio article says that science and religion "have been at one another's throats but that has begun to shift in the last generation or two." But it predicts that: "it should shift a lot more as one recognizes that science is speaking a language that is very similar to that of the mystical experiences of all the world religions, and mainly the sense of cosmic oneness and interaction and communication beyond space and time."

The world's mystics would resonate with this belief that mysticism is the commonality among all world religions. Even Tony Campolo suggested this in his book Speaking My Mind when he said "a theology of mysticism provides some hope for common ground between Christianity and Islam" (see pp. 149-150). And of course Thomas Merton often spoke of this common ground within all religious traditions. And as for New Agers, this is one of their core "values." In the New Age book, As Above, So Below, occultist Aldous Huxley is referenced regarding the "Perennial Wisdom" that believes that "the metaphysical (mysticism) unites all things together in all the world's religions" (pp. 2-3).

[b][color=990000]There is a reason why practicing mysticism gives this sense of unity within all religious traditions. It is because that place of silence or the mystical altered state is actually a realm of familiar spirits (Leviticus 19:31 KJV). The very fact that mysticism unites all religions is proof that mystical practices are not sanctioned by the God of the Bible, who has clearly stated that there is only one path to God (Jesus Christ) and that all the world's religions will never be united under this true God. Rather, every knee will bow and be brought under submission to the only true God and Savior, Jesus Christ. The gods of this world will never be one or in unity with the true God. When Henri Nouwen, at the end of a life of practicing mysticism said that he believed that Jesus wasn't the only way to God and that he felt it was his mission to help people find their own way to God, he was expressing the core perception of the mystical view.2 As Warren Smith points out in A "Wonderful" Deception, the rationale for this is stated by Nouwen when he said, "The God who dwells in our inner sanctuary is also the God who dwells in the inner sanctuary of each human being."

Some people may accuse Lighthouse Trails and those with similar concerns of being narrow and legalistic, but those who look at this rationally and straight on, if they are being honest, would have to see that there is a distinct opposition to these two views (preaching of the Cross versus God in everyone).[/color][/b] In Christianity, the message is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shall be saved. Nouwen's view is God dwells in everybody's heart from the moment of birth just because they are human. If that is the case, why believe on the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior? That is why Nouwen (as are other contemplatives today) was so laxidasical about the Gospel. In other words, it made Nouwen uncomfortable. Of course, it made him uncomfortable--because it rejected what he believed about the human condition!

[b][color=990000]We believe this "shift" that the San Antonio article is talking about could be the very thing that Scripture warns against when it states: "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils." (I Timothy 4:1) As the world "shifts" toward the common belief that humanity (and all creation) is united through a divine, cosmic, "scientific" energy that the new scientists will say exists in all things, and as much of Christianity heads that way too through the contemplative prayer practices, Bible-believing Christians must continue to warn their loved ones of this very real and fast-moving spiritual deception. [/color][/b]

For more information on this topic, read A "Wonderful" Deception by Warren Smith. To understand the contemplative prayer movement (i.e., spiritual formation), read A Time of Departing.

[url=http://campaign.constantcontact.com/render?v=001aqj1QInodGReu6BRjXCSn_Dy0GWMbWv41Dd2uat_7uv78I2Bk96tST8Z4Ac7ev09IamC_G5vvRe3S-w770V6ioOIc3WKs5tN0T60D4eoicf36Kcwmr5hgdW07K-jo3Dy80qmDbbDk7IvdSMPgfC1RK6hjweE6BGBhu98YViXr0cBhTgPUDzvGsNK3noP2krNwJsqOdfxYXkDQKP_pNOTFCq8DLqE59MWgS5o4oGV7sq1EofKKQHgmf_wyYOvVdg6QYJIXotziyCFcGqcRh_9IhJKtbYjJMj6KeK8nxyzXJdd7OrnVm3ekqrjHgy1NKtZcn2PUMv6reDxWiYRpQY-bw%3D%3D]Will The New Science PROVE that God is in all Things?[/url]

Sincerely,

Walter

Hello, Poet

You stated:

[b]A link to the article would be helpful[/b]

Please see attached link below:

[url=http://campaign.constantcontact.com/render?v=001aqj1QInodGReu6BRjXCSn_Dy0GWMbWv41Dd2uat_7uv78I2Bk96tST8Z4Ac7ev09IamC_G5vvRe3S-w770V6ioOIc3WKs5tN0T60D4eoicf36Kcwmr5hgdW07K-jo3Dy80qmDbbDk7IvdSMPgfC1RK6hjweE6BGBhu98YViXr0cBhTgPUDzvGsNK3noP2krNwJsqOdfxYXkDQKP_pNOTFCq8DLqE59MWgS5o4oGV7sq1EofKKQHgmf_wyYOvVdg6QYJIXotziyCFcGqcRh_9IhJKtbYjJMj6KeK8nxyzXJdd7OrnVm3ekqrjHgy1NKtZcn2PUMv6reDxWiYRpQY-bw%3D%3D]Will the New Science Prove that God is in all things?[/url]

Sincerely,

Walter

waltern and poet, thanks to both of you for these posts. I'm watching a 1 Cor 14 church (yes, with problems in that format too), embrace all kinds of new age, seeker-sensitive, false doctrine, to the extent I wonder if the person leading has need of Gal 4:19. The word 'again' is appropriate.

In Christianity, the message is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shall be saved.

thats the first 'baby step' of the Message, the Gospel, there are many many 'steps' after that, including going from 'believing on' to 'following', from 'living for self', to 'dying to self' and be filled with Jesus and His Love, being His Hands on this earth binding the wounded.

i have grown very weary of those who come on this forum with 'agenda', and crys of how 'bad and backslidden' the CHURCH has become, grown weary of those in their religious pride and their agenda, who supplant the POWER of God in their opinions of those who are 'wolves' and 'apostates'. DO these men put themselves in the place of God? He Who is Master of the Universe cannot bring into the LIGHT, what must be exposed?

As if He needs man's help?

in fact i am of the conviction, firm conviction, that much of this 'discernment' palaber is really a sly scheme of the enemy to use well intentioned men, unwittingly, to foster his aim to discourage and divide the Body....to turn us against each other, and to cast doubt in our hearts, not only against other followers and lovers of Jesus Messiah, but also to constantly reiterate how 'bad', 'lukewarm' 'apostate' the Church, which is the BODY OF CHRIST has become.

and that is a LIE from the pit of hell, and anyone that forwards, promigulates that lie, should get on their faces, and have a meeting with God, beg forgiveness,REPENT and seek the Baptism of the Holy GHOST.

i pray you know i write this in the Love of Christ. neil

pastor, i feel the Lord leading to write this to you, and i beg your forgiveness for my audacity, fore that is the flock that the Lord Jesus has entrusted you with, but you wrote:

Thank you so much for posting this brother... I am actually preparing a message for Sunday on the Emergent church & other heretical movements in Christianity today...

committ this to prayer please, but throw out your notes, forget your three point sermon, but go to the home depot and buy two black plastic paint basins, four plastic pitchers, some liquid soap, and a dozen towels, get on your knees, and wash the feet of your flock. the other basin is for the women. have your worship team play, 'softly and tenderly', while you wash feet.

truly i tell you, if you do this, THE SHEKINAH GLORY will fill your assembly, and the Holy SPIRIT will fill all yielded, hungry souls, just by one act of servanthood, a humbling act in the Love of Jesus.

but thats up to you, all i ask is to take my suggestion before the Throne, hear what GOD says.

neil

The issue is, and must be that there are tares among the wheat. It always has been this way.

A little yeast spreads throughout the loaf, so it must be exposed, and rooted out of the dough, before it takes hold. Contemplative prayer is a pure and potent compound of the most poison yeast. It has it's roots in ancient Babylon, and for the open version, is most apparent in Hindi transcendentalism.

Since God is within, a staunch Hindu doctrine, the mind must be stilled. It is there that enlightenment is discovered, and the god within to reveal the god without. This is achieved through focus, guided imagery, and various forms of yoga to focus on the void, or the repetition of mantras, often associated with "BEAD COUNTING"; [ there-by the rosary ]. All monks in the eastern order of this occultic practice carry and count beads, as a tool, a vehicle to launch the mystic experience.

The veiled version would be found in Roman Catholicism, where in we find the mystics. These men and women were taught the same methods, only christianized; sanitized in religious lingo. It all evolves around the emptying of the mind, and there is real revelation and power in it. It is Satanic, and the fruit of the tree mat at first to be sweet and good, but it's core and seed is evil, and is not grown by the standard of all godly fruit; Faith!

All Christian prayer is aggressive, not passive. It is all by faith, believed and prayed outwardly, where Jesus sits at the right hand of the eternal Father, the Creator. "Our Father, who DWELLS IN HEAVEN!", not a secret place inside of you. He sits above, on a real throne, and it is here that He responds, and it is here that we cry. It is here, that faith is rewarded.

This wall of holy doctrine has been invaded, generally I believe, through sentiment. Experience trumps doctrine, and this doctrine of passive prayer and "transcending", traveling to a destination in God by the inner sanctum of the void within is EVIL, and unbiblical. It is Pagan, and must be exposed for what it is. An invasion! "An enemy has done this!"

Jesus' response in the parable of why the tares were ever there.

again i must tell you that i write to you, humbly meekly, without diviseness, or argument, only to reason.

first, let me testify, i have no knowledge nor interest in hindu prayer practices, nor any knowledge of what the roman institution does with their "ordinances". (my prayer is that those who love Jesus, entrapped within the roman institution, find the gate and escape from this hell crafted institution)

so know that i, in my walk, give these practices no attention, nor credence. I feel ridiculous at having to "flash my credentials" to you, but this is the internet, and this is not the same as having a real discussion.

There were several things you wrote I would like to query you about:

All Christian prayer is aggressive, not passive.

what do you mean?

you also wrote something I don't know if I agree with, simply because I can testify that, with all assurance and the Gift of Faith, that the Lord lives in me, the Comforter.

"Our Father, who DWELLS IN HEAVEN!", not a secret place inside of you.

Here's one other statement I dont understand:

This wall of holy doctrine has been invaded, generally I believe, through sentiment.

in humility I ask, what is a "wall of holy doctrine"?

As the Lord leads, a "wall" seems to hem one in, and even the very word , "doctrine" is laden with the fleshly opinions of man, who sometimes seem to relish arguing over minute points of "doctrine", instead of venturing forth OUT of the "walls of doctrine", and reflecting the Love of Messiah to a dying world.

just one other question, forgive me,

Experience trumps doctrine,

What do you mean?

As I read the Word, ordinary men and women have many expirences with God, Thank Him for even deigning to "be with us"! I'be been led back to the Begininng of the Word, and I was just reading Abraham's encounter with the "Three"...what an expierence!!!...and God is the same yesterday, today and forever, so, why can't you or be so blessed? Imagine, Abraham got to speak with Jesus, Chapter 18, Genesis! Of course, it wasnt the "happiest of times", as Abraham was besseching God to spare Sodom if 10 righteous men could be found, etc.

Just some quiet questions to you brother, asked in the love of Christ, neil

To Natan4Jesus:

Last night, from 10:00 P.M. to 11:00 P.M. I watched a show entitled [b]Welcome Home[/b] on the ETWN Network (Eternal Word Network). This show is all about Protestants who have “come home” to Catholicism.[b] [color=990000]This is a major ministry of the Catholic Church in these end times, and MILLIONS of Protestants are becoming Catholics.[/color][/b]

Of great interest to me was the reason why the guest Protestant had come “home” to Catholicism. He supposedly believed in “Solo Scriptura” when he was a Protestant in the Presbyterian Church. But felt that something was lacking, and started asking a Catholic Priest questions about the Catholic experience.[b] He was drawn to the Catholic Church for one reason only- he wanted to be “one” with God. He wanted to have an experiential relationship with God (He did not mention Jesus, just God)[/b]The Scripture he quoted, to prove that the Protestants are missing out was:

(1 Cor 13: 12-13)
12. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

He feels that though the Catholic Eucharist, as well as the Sacraments & Contemplative Prayer, as well as the Confession of sin to a Caholic "Priest", has brought him so close to God,[b] that he is NOW ONE WITH GOD.[/b]

[b][color=990000]The problem is that he is totally incorrect about the meaning of the scripture that he quoted. If he would have looked at the entire reference, it is all about the resurrection of the Saints. Only at the rapture/resurrection will the Church be like Christ, and we will be able to see Him as He is, because we will be like Him. Now, in our earthly bodies, of flesh and blood, we see through the glass darkly. When we have our new resurrected bodies of flesh and bone, like Christ’s (Luke 24:39), will we truly be like Him.[/color][/b]

9. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
13. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

[b]The time that we now live in is truly the age of deceit. We have spent many, many weeks looking for a Bible Believing Church. We live in Orange County, in Southern California and have found only two such Churches that truly hold to Solo Scriptura, and both teach Bible Doctrine, and both are Conservative Baptist Churches.[/b]

Sincerley,

Walter

Yes Waltern: Newt Gingrich and Senator Brownback or a couple of very famous former politicians who have "came home" to the Roman Mass.

Catholicism has become the institution that defines their morality, and it also allows an element of POWER and security. Being born again or adhering to Scripture is now meaningless. They now have tangibility intermingled with faith, and their best life now that attributes to their political aspirations. It's an "IN" thing to do right now.

As far as looking for a fellowship, it's a waste land out there. If you do find a scriptural church, I ask is that alone enough to justify attendance? Is the witness of the Spirit in fruit also present?, are the weak and needy honored as much as the leaders?, and are their some fruits in tandem with new believers? just some thinking. I personally like home fellowships; they seem more real.

But your right: If you don't submit to scripture without compromise, What have you got?

Apostasy somewhere in the middle.

My best thoughts for your journey; brothertom

"Neither when we have chosen our way can we keep company with those who go the other way. There must come with the decision for truth a corresponding protest against error." - Charles Haddon Spurgeon

Amen! Otherwise we are not separate, nor holy, for a little leaven leavens the whole lump. We heed the admonition to "Come out from among them, and be ye separate!", otherwise, being one bread with corruption, we perish. Isn't it a little beyond our grasp of theology, to grasp the truth that God also judges CHURCHES, by removing their candlesticks, as he does the individual? But he surely does.

All of us have an example of a once mighty spirit filled church that shook the world, and a generation or two later, was but a dead shell.

I think of the glorious Methodist brothers,the Wesleys, Whitefield and their companions. It seemed that no stone was left unturned in all of America that had not heard their message of repentance, holiness, and submission to the only Savior Jesus!

The last time I checked, the United Methodist church here, at the edge of the county line, was Pastored by a Lesbian and her lover. No gospel message at all...zero.

John Wesley could not have believed it, and to be honest, neither could I.

A.W. Tozer contended that our battle was not a battle for the Faith, but a battle for the PURITY of the Faith.

Xylon B, the cyanide capsule that the Nazi's used to assassinate multitudes of innocent Jews was eventual refined to just a few pellets. It was all relatively sanitary and orderly, but mixed with the air we breathe, nevertheless overwhelmingly toxic unto almost instant death. I see the many tentacles of the EMERGENT Church with some pellets in each of them.

Yes God is good, and the benefits of an abundant life of faith quite desirable and evident, but the other side of the Father is His SEVERITY. He will , and has, damned many a soul who did not fear Him, and presumptuously transgressed his goodness. Leaven in the "emergents" has intentions, and that is to defile you, and steal your faith, along with your crown. This is why it all must be opposed, and spoken out against, that is not in obedience to Scripture, or the holy spirit Who agrees with "IT IS WRITTEN!

"The church is dead" These are the words I heard the Holy Spirit say to me. He did not use the words

'bad', 'lukewarm' 'apostate'

He used the the Words "DEAD"

gently I ask, are you sure it was the Holy Ghost Whom said that to you?

Forgive me, but such a statement from God the Holy Ghost would make Him out to be a liar.

the 16th chapter of Matthew's Gospel, verses 13 to 20 Mt.16-13-20 Peter's confession that Jesus is Messiah, Son of the living God is the "Rock" that the church (congregation) is built on, and Jesus said, [b][color=CC0000]"the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."[/color][/b]

the church is not dead, and God the Holy Ghost did not tell you that, dont be foolish. You live in Scotland, I live in the US, Bibles are readily available, there are many buildings to rent, there are many avenues of discourse we may avail ourselves of, to proclaim the Living Gospel , without penalty of death, or censure or jail. Kinko's abound, you can publish your own tracts. We have two knees, there's nothing holding us back from falling on them, and asking God to bare His Mighty Arm once again, but we waste time with our own back biting, divisions, diviseness, fleshliness, unprofitability (of which I will readily "cop to", but Praise Him, Jesus has ahold of me!)

reflect on this for a second, what is it about us, that would make ANYBODY envious of us? That we have been given so great a Salvation?, I speak of those poor souls that do not know Jesus. Could they REALLY look at us, and say, "look how they love one another"?

and that Love does not come cheap and easy, because when Jesus comes to live in us, we begin to be refined, and we seek the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, His Love, becomes our love, and That is not dead, so the Church is not dead, we just have to start obeying Jesus, and i believe ground zero of that endeavour is to read and re-read the High Priestly Prayer of Jesus in John 17, that precious bit of Scripture, the longest recorded prayer of Jesus, that is the "spine" of our Faith. Jesus is up There right now, making intercession on all our lifes, Praise His Name!!!

To Neil:

How about the True Church that exists in America, that is the remnant? It is alive and well, like it has been from the beginning. The rest of the "Church" in America, which is the majority, is dead. But guess what? It has always been dead, it has always been filled with goats, only now all those with eyes to see, and ears to hear, can see and hear the difference between the two "Churches", between the true Church of the Sheep, and the false Church of the Goats.

(Matthew 7:13-19)
13. Enter ye in at the strait gate:[b] for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:[/b][b][color=990000] 14. Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. [/color][/b]15. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17. Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.19.Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire
20.Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Sincerely,

Walter

Natan4Jesus wrote:

"The church is dead" These are the words I heard the Holy Spirit say to me. He did not use the words

'bad', 'lukewarm' 'apostate'

He used the the Words "DEAD"

gently I ask, are you sure it was the Holy Ghost Whom said that to you?

Forgive me, but such a statement from God the Holy Ghost would make Him out to be a liar.

the 16th chapter of Matthew's Gospel, verses 13 to 20 Mt.16-13-20 Peter's confession that Jesus is Messiah, Son of the living God is the "Rock" that the church (congregation) is built on, and Jesus said, [b][color=CC0000]"the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."[/color][/b]

the church is not dead, and God the Holy Ghost did not tell you that, dont be foolish. You live in Scotland, I live in the US, Bibles are readily available, there are many buildings to rent, there are many avenues of discourse we may avail ourselves of, to proclaim the Living Gospel , without penalty of death, or censure or jail. Kinko's abound, you can publish your own tracts. We have two knees, there's nothing holding us back from falling on them, and asking God to bare His Mighty Arm once again, but we waste time with our own back biting, divisions, diviseness, fleshliness, unprofitability (of which I will readily "cop to", but Praise Him, Jesus has ahold of me!)

reflect on this for a second, what is it about us, that would make ANYBODY envious of us? That we have been given so great a Salvation?, I speak of those poor souls that do not know Jesus. Could they REALLY look at us, and say, "look how they love one another"?

and that Love does not come cheap and easy, because when Jesus comes to live in us, we begin to be refined, and we seek the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, His Love, becomes our love, and That is not dead, so the Church is not dead, we just have to start obeying Jesus, and i believe ground zero of that endeavour is to read and re-read the High Priestly Prayer of Jesus in John 17, that precious bit of Scripture, the longest recorded prayer of Jesus, that is the "spine" of our Faith. Jesus is up There right now, making intercession on all our lifes, Praise His Name!!!

I might have misconstrued what you wrote, which is not uncommon on such a discussion platform. Believe me, I dont mean to be argumentative, or contentious. I had asked questions of another poster on this thread, who must have assumed I was baiting him, which is not the truth.

Yes, Jesus did say the church in Sardis is dead, but it was "a" church, I read you write "the" church as in all churches. Is that incorrect?

When I talk about "resources" being readily available, I am not unaware of the "big picture", nor am I unaware of the problem of sin, but the way I read the Word, there is no such thing as "Christian Perfectionism". There is the Blood of Christ, which is completely and wholly sufficient for cleansing. There is sanctification, which is an ongoing maturing process. There is the Baptism in the Holy Ghost, which in its final analysis is just a greater revelation of Jesus, so as to empower His flock, to lead a life of holiness. But "perfection" in a daily walk? No.

the sin of the those who follow Jesus is our lack of unity, our lack of love, agape love, love without condition. How can we ever expect to love the broken unconditionally, when we can't even love each other, unconditionally?

Men and women, it seems to me, just relish the opportunity to argue over the letter of the "law", rather than embrace the Spirit of the Word. Just on this very forum, so many threads, so much bandwidth expended over whether Judas is in hell, or whether this ministry, or that minister is backslidden or apostate, etc. So much bandwidth now devoted to terminology 'emerging' that I dont think the writers really have a full grasp of what it all means.

you also wrote:

Sin has crept in and is now operating in the church causing deception in ways that never been seen before in the church.

oh come now, have you forgotten Constantine? and how could we ever forget that red scarlet whore, the roman institution? and its sin? its superstition? its idolatry? I won't even insult God by terming it the "roman catholic church", as many have on this forum, even to the point of honor by capitalizing it, as they slam what they percieve as something gravely evil and sin-soaked decievers, the "emerging" church.....which can come in the form of some kids, renting a storefront, to pray, and worship the Saviour Jesus Christ. The concept, term, "emerging" is so loose and amphorous, its different in the sense that it might some followers of Jesus, young people actually getting together and saying, "no, we're tired of [b]"doing church"[/b] we want to [b]BE Church, which is the Body of Christ"[/b]

(admittedly, the "Emergent Church" is a different story altogther, and I have not the time nor leading to read of any of Brian MacLaren's stuff, I will neither support him or defend him, or the Emergent Church, which is wholly different from the loose terminology "emerging church")

the Church has always been "emerging" in its history, in the context of how a congregation reflects the rubric of the local believers. The Chinese "underground house church", can one define its ecclesiology? What about Shane Claiborne and the Simple Way out in the ghetto of North Philly? The Gospel is being preached there, and lives are brought into a saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ, read his book "The Irresistible Revolution", Shane's Full Gospel, there is no lie in him. He just doesnt "look" like what one would presume a north american pastor to look like, in fact in his occupation, he lists himself as "lover", as in "lover of Jesus", is that deception, or is it just that the established church in all its fleshly prejuidices, or presuppositions, feels threatened? Much like that red scarlet whore rome, that maintains an iron grip over so many souls held in bondage to its wicked adulteries and priestcraft.

or what about our very own brother Patrick Ersig, who I daresay doesnt look like a typical mid american pastor, yet preaches the Full Gospel in one of the most sin-soaked, dangerous spots in America, skid row Los Angeles. Is the ministry God entrusted him with, The Jonah Project, "emerging"? Patrick is more than able to answer that himself, but my judgement is that it is, and its a good Work, souls are being swept into the Kingdom, lives changed, Jesus preached, its just a bit different from a Baptist church in middle America, thats all. Is that to imply that the Jonah Project is "superior" to the mid America Baptist church?

not at all!

But I do look forward to going back to Los Angeles to my home congregation, coming alongside our new work, and yes, coming alongside my brother Patrick in whatever way I can.

I've written enough, after 31 July, my time, God willing, will be spent in endeavours more profitable to the Lord, and to His service. I dont mean that as an insult to anyone here, but we just keep going around and around with the same things, contentious things, and I'm weary of it.

Colin, I love you in the Lord, and my prayer is that Scotland once again be lit with the Fires of Revival, as your land gave us M'Cheyne, Bonar and Campbell, these were mighty men of God, may God give you such an annointing, in Jesus Name I pray, amen. neil