The book Pagan Christianity(Don't be Duped}

This book seems to be dangerous to a real revival that is so needed in our day. Reading the titles to the chapters and several reviews positive and negative, I don’t feel led to buy this book. Truth should be told in the right spirit without any mixture of error leading the listeners to an understanding that will reveal the living Christ with an end to the fullness of God.

The problems with most gatherings today are that the people are not getting the true gospel message. You can also have multitude of house churches that fall short of the New Testament pattern of worship lacking the presence of the Holy Spirit in all his fullness.

Jesus gave gifts unto men for the equipping of the saints as well as the body ministry to one another.

People who are walking away from local church buildings and becoming leaders of house churches will also be held just as responsible as Pastors of congregations. What ever measure you use to judge others will be measured right back to you.

You call yourself a Christian and start telling someone else how to live and serve God you will be held accountable for those people you influence.

The two individuals who wrote “pagan christianity” will answer to God for how they represented the church that Jesus suffered for.

Blessings to all!

rbanks wrote:

Reading the titles to the chapters and several reviews positive and negative, I don’t feel led to buy this book.

Great. After I [u]read[/u] this book and formulated [u]my own[/u] opinion, I feel led to suggest for others to buy this book.8-)

Granted, if someone does not wish to be challenged by what the writers reveal about popular "pagan" ;-) christian traditions...don't buy this book.

The problems with most gatherings today are that the people are not getting the true gospel message.

Very true.

You can also have multitude of house churches that fall short of the New Testament pattern of worship lacking the presence of the Holy Spirit in all his fullness.

"Multitude"? I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you have some first hand examples of this. If so, please site some examples and sources of Christian House Churches that fall short.

The two individuals who wrote “pagan christianity” will answer to God for how they represented the church that Jesus suffered for.

Blessings to all!

I'm sorry brother, but Jesus did not come and die on the cross so that Christians could have church in a building (church) made by man. Ask our brothers and sisters in China, or Pakistan, or Iran, or N. Korea, or Romania, etc... most of these brothers and sisters would LOVE to hold church in a traditional setting, but are forced not to. Are they going to have to answer to the Lord for how they lead His people [u]because[/u] they met outside of a traditional church building?

As for these brothers answering to the Lord for representing Christ, praise God! All who lead a House Church, traditional church, etc... will need to answer for how they lead Gods people. If you do not lead Gods people, then you will have to answer for how you lead your family, chirldren, co-workers, etc...

We are all accountable for our decisions. Lets honor the Lord above any other, albiet the traditional church, or an untraditional church. HC may not be for everyone, and that is ok, but traditional church may not be for everyone either. Lets glorify the Lord regardless. :-)

I think I have heard of the book, but I don't know who the authors are.

But with the oxymoronic title that it has, I think it won't be a book that I would read.

Miccah wrote:
rbanks wrote:

Reading the titles to the chapters and several reviews positive and negative, I don’t feel led to buy this book.

Great. After I [u]read[/u] this book and formulated [u]my own[/u] opinion, I feel led to suggest for others to buy this book.8-)

Granted, if someone does not wish to be challenged by what the writers reveal about popular "pagan" ;-) christian traditions...don't buy this book.

The problems with most gatherings today are that the people are not getting the true gospel message.

Very true.

You can also have multitude of house churches that fall short of the New Testament pattern of worship lacking the presence of the Holy Spirit in all his fullness.

"Multitude"? I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you have some first hand examples of this. If so, please site some examples and sources of Christian House Churches that fall short.

The two individuals who wrote “pagan christianity” will answer to God for how they represented the church that Jesus suffered for.

Blessings to all!

I'm sorry brother, but Jesus did not come and die on the cross so that Christians could have church in a building (church) made by man. Ask our brothers and sisters in China, or Pakistan, or Iran, or N. Korea, or Romania, etc... most of these brothers and sisters would LOVE to hold church in a traditional setting, but are forced not to. Are they going to have to answer to the Lord for how they lead His people [u]because[/u] they met outside of a traditional church building?

As for these brothers answering to the Lord for representing Christ, praise God! All who lead a House Church, traditional church, etc... will need to answer for how they lead Gods people. If you do not lead Gods people, then you will have to answer for how you lead your family, chirldren, co-workers, etc...

We are all accountable for our decisions. Lets honor the Lord above any other, albiet the traditional church, or an untraditional church. HC may not be for everyone, and that is ok, but traditional church may not be for everyone either. Lets glorify the Lord regardless. :-)

I still stand by every word in my original post even at the point of being misunderstood. You see Jesus was often misunderstood and accused by those who did not comprehend where he was coming from.

The difference in the words of Jesus and the words in this book is that Jesus was more clear with the words of the kingdom and did not mix his words with those that were ungodly to possibly mislead someone or to hurt someone who was actually for Him and not against Him.

Jesus would never criticize by using words like this book. We shouldn't throw out the baby with the bath water.

The part where I said that "you can have multitude of house churches", I was meaning that it is possible if they are not led by the Holy Spirit.

I believe their are more true christians in the underground church in China then probably anywhere but you also stated that "they would love to hold church in a traditional setting but are forced not to" by this I am to assume that this is not wrong to desire this.

We all will have to answer for our actions and I still believe we need to be careful with the words and message we are striving to get across.

Blessings to you!

Is this about christianity we have today is the same of paganism, please we know this not to be true but a lie. Biblical christianity did not steal from paganism.

Roniya wrote:
I have not read Pagan Christianity but I did find Dean Taylor's article in a recent Remnant to be quite interesting.

http://www.charityministries.org/theremnant/2009/2Q/theremnant-2009-2Q-pagan.a5w

I just read the entire article. It too bad that the writer used another person's statements about the Bible and applied that to Frank Viola/George Barna... as is that is what they were saying. That is deceptive and is bearing false witness.

Also, there was a lot of assumptions made about Barna/Viola and their research. Though I can see some of the writers points and will research those points he is trying to make, I would always suggest we steer clear of adding bits and pieces to what people are saying. Again, this is deceptive in my eyes.

Lots of strawman arguements. But thank you for the link. I love seeing different views on subjects I am passionate about. I will pray on it.

Blessings :-)

reformer wrote:

Most christians do not like the idea of people leaving there "churches" for something different other than what is currently out there. if someone decides to meet in a home they are classified as a heretic. Most Christians have to go "church" because that is there identity, they have to perform. A spirit of religion tells us that we need to get up on Sunday and go. What would happen if we came under persecution and we had to abandon our buildings and meet privately?

Brother you mention “most Christians” in your paragraph like you are able to speak for the majority of Christians and why they do things.

You also sound like you are against Christians going to a public building. I have also learned that people like what makes them feel good in what they are doing. They like to find something to justify their actions when doing something.

You also mention people calling people who meet in a house a heretic but I don’t believe a true Christian would do such a thing.

The part where you mention about “What would happen if we came under persecution and we had to abandon our buildings and meet privately” then if you are a true Christian you would still meet together anywhere you could but those who don’t meet in public want get to find out will they. Christians are not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together whether it is in a public building or in a private home. But whether it is in a private home or in a public building we are to be his witnesses to let the light of Christ shine to others.

Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

The bible says that Jesus taught on many occasions in the synagogues and all through the book of Acts they were going to the synagogue sharing Christ. I remember years ago I was going to this church and I didn’t believe the people were getting the full gospel message but I stayed there for a season and I witness to people who came through the door on many occasions after the service. I am praying for the church as a whole but I will not speak against going to church in a public building or any other type of meeting place. I don’t believe in forsaking the meeting and I definitely will not speak against going to a public building where the full gospel is being preached. People need to be sitting under the anointed word of God whether it is a public building or a house church.

Blessings to you!

Brethren,

Has anyone really read my original post and my replies on this thread?

Truth does not offend those who love the truth. What majority of people are raving about this book?

Is it the people who are truly blessed meeting in their public church building or is it the people who have left the church building because of the problems they have experienced.

Jesus corrected error but he did not down any group of people who were following Him.

Mark 9:38-41 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part. For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

Blessings to all!

"Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks."

This took place before he turned towards the Gentiles. I believe, my humble opinion, is that he went there because that is where the most people were. He wasn't going to speak on a mountain top to the wind but to the Lost Sheep and he had to go where there were to do this.

It pains me to see how you are fighting against what must come to be. Reformer is correct, they met together when it was appropriate. They did not have the luxury of having 40 hour work weeks, they had to make a living for their families and this took back breaking work most of the growing season. They did not have cars to make gathering together simple and quick, they had to travel by foot or if lucky donkey. They did not live the easy life we do in this century.

my two cents,
white stone

White_Stone wrote:

It pains me to see how you are fighting against what must come to be. Reformer is correct, they met together when it was appropriate. They did not have the luxury of having 40 hour work weeks, they had to make a living for their families and this took back breaking work most of the growing season. They did not have cars to make gathering together simple and quick, they had to travel by foot or if lucky donkey. They did not live the easy life we do in this century.

my two cents,
white stone

I would like to reply to this comment in particular if you were implying this to me.

"It pains me to see how you are fighting against what must come to be. Reformer is correct, they met together when it was appropriate"

I don't know how in all my posts that you came to this conclusion.

Although I feel that many have not fully grasped the perspective of what I was trying to convey in this thread I am still very much encouraged in the Lord.

I do pray God's best upon all his people regardless of how or where they meet together.

Blessings to all!

rbanks wrote in 1st post:
You call yourself a Christian and start telling someone else how to live and serve God you will be held accountable for those people you influence.

wrote in 2nd post:
We all will have to answer for our actions and I still believe we need to be careful with the words and message we are striving to get across.

If I may use my own life… however sinful and atrocious! The Lord has shown me much in the eight years I have been divorced. He opened my eyes to my own sinfulness of not submitting to my husband but that I never had heart to submit; let alone even comply with him!! And of course when things got bad enough and things peaked, I felt he drove me out but in all honesty, I was the one who left.

If anyone had married me (I have never dated, so no worries there); but the point I’m trying to make is if anyone had, 1. They would have been marrying someone who still had not learned to submit. 2. I would have been marrying someone who was like the first one (not submitted to God either). I look back to the beginning where there were signs and if I would have chosen better and he would have chosen better, quite possibly we both would be happily married instead of still single! (Don’t judge my marriage; hang with me for this point please!!! (huge grin)

But anyway, let’s apply this scenario to people who have trouble in their churches. When we enter a church building for the first time, we never ask, “How did this church come into being?” “Who started this church and why?” Well, maybe some of you have but I never have; but I will! Because if the leadership got into a row and kicked out the pastor or they left because of some row over the non-essential part of the gospel; they are NOT submitted to God, Christ or the Holy Spirit. Period. The rest is just details and God knows them.

So if we don’t seek to know the “history” of the leadership of a church (or even a house church), we will inevitably be doomed to repeat our mistakes like, “marry” (join, attend) the same type of (house) church we left and then what? Probably get hurt all over again because number one, we are not submitted to authority (in reality, the Holy Spirit), and number two, we haven’t inquired into the history of how a (house) church came into being to recognize that they are not submitted to authority either!! And what happens when two unsubmitted people come together? Sparks fly over the least little things!

It matters not whether it’s a regular church you’ve left or a house church. Have you or I let iron sharpen iron and kept up through or have we left and blamed the spouse (the leadership)??? Have we started a (house) church because of our refusal to submit to someone else we thought lower than ourselves? Due to age or education or time spent in the vineyard? Only you know but God knows also. I believe God can show us and if we did, ask Him what we need to do about it. And then obey Him, even if He says to go back in!! Would you be willing to hear God say that???

In conclusion, rbanks wrote - "We all will have to answer for our actions and I still believe we need to be careful with the words and message we are striving to get across;" I agree because we all write or speak from our stubborness, our unsubmissive spirit, or a broken heart (maybe not broken for God). And those words will stand for eternity. And rbanks, I don’t feel this book will cause any more harm to revival than our stubborn refusal to submit to authority!! But that is just my two cents!! Oh, if it was payment on gas… it might be about two bucks now!! LOL

God bless you rbanks and everyone that has posted! (Now, I only read the first four posts, I am NOT talking to anyone in this post except myself… God knows I need to learn more and more about submitting to Him. and I'm sorry this is so long.)

Lysa,

Thank you so much for those powerful words of wisdom. Sister I have truly been blessed by your posts on SI. I can see where God has given you much wisdom because of the fiery trials you have been through.

I look forward to reading your posts and agree with you more than you realize. The only thing that I can think of where we have different perspectives is concerning the rapture of the church.

BTW just one more point concerning the pretrib, :-D

No, but I do believe that if I'm ready for the rapture during the pretib then I will be ready in the posttrib if the Lord should see fit for me to be here.

God bless you sister!