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how many prophesies in a meeting?

L
lydian Jul 16, 2009

hi folks, i recently saw a video of a meeting and had a question about what i saw.

The man preaching, preached for about 45 mins, then he began prophesying over the congregation.

He gave multiple prophetic words, calling out peoples names and phone numbers also.

My question is, does 1 Cor 14 teach that there should be 3 prophetic words maximum in any given meeting?

or is it biblical that a new testament prophet, may prophesy, giving multiple words in other type of meetings or circumstances.

Im not as much concerned if how he was prophesying was wrong (names and phone numbers) or even of God, although comments are most welcome, my main point is , how many prophesies are allowed in a meeting.

thanks all, hope to hear your thoughts

lydian.

sermonindex Jul 16, 2009

He gave multiple prophetic words, calling out peoples names and phone numbers also.
:-P sounds like Peter Popoff. He was a scam artist.

sermonindex Jul 16, 2009

My question is, does 1 Cor 14 teach that there should be 3 prophetic words maximum in any given meeting?
No.

1 Cor 14:24 But if [b]all[/b] prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or [one] unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:

27 If any man speak in an [unknown] tongue, [let it be] by two, or at the most [by] three, and [that] by course; and let one interpret.

Not all messages in tongues are 'prophecy'. Some might be prayer. This is one reason interpretation should be awaited, for the edification of all present.

28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

The matter being judged is the content of the 'prophecy', that it should be in keeping with scripture, and therefore also, the character of God. The person bringing the prophetic word is not being judged, except to become known as one who is in touch with God and being used by Him through the gifts given to him for the church. But so should we all be!

I believe Paul is being practical here, as, if a word being brought is [u]not[/u] from God, the other prophets should be free to express that they cannot endorse the content, for whatever reason. This is where 'church' could be messy, and why it's extremely important that the men who are given oversight should have been recognised by the flock itself previously, and not imposed on the flock from some higher authority within that denomination for the purpose of controlling what God appears to say to the people. Often the people 'know' what's of God, more than 'religious' leaders!

30 If [any thing] be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.

31 [u]For ye may all prophesy one by one[/u], that all may learn, and all may be comforted. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.


Probably more could be said, but Paul uses the word 'all' quite freely. The word of God is not bound.

A
AbideinHim Jul 16, 2009

"But he that prophesies speaks to men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort." (1Corinthians 14:3).

The gift of prophesy is to build up or edify the church, and many have abused this gift and that is why the Apostle Paul wrote much on the spiritual gifts to the Corinthian believers. They came behind in no gift, yet the lacked the love of God. All of the gifts are to be ministered in love.

The gift of prophesy is not to be used to put on a show that would lift up the man. All prophesy should be judged by the Word of God, and your spirit by the Holy Spirit should bear witness to it.

Jesus said that we would no them by thier fruits, and not by their gifts. Prophesy is a precious gift when used in the right spirit with the correct motive. Many churches reject the prophetic gift because of the abuses that have taken place, and other churches that are favorable to prophesy seem to not be using much discernment.

We should prove all things and hold fast to that which is good.

Mike

L
lydian Jul 16, 2009

hi "AlivetoGod"

So you think there is no restriction on the number of prophetic words in a meeting? and that the whole congregation could literally prophesy one by one if they wanted to?

29 Let the prophets speak two or three..

hi, so what do you think verse 29 means?

sermonindex Jul 17, 2009

Hi lydian,

While I'm answering that, perhaps you would think about how you understand v 32: And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets? Thanks.

So you think there is no restriction on the number of prophetic words in a meeting? and that the whole congregation could literally prophesy one by one if they wanted to?
I'm going to answer your questions with questions, because we are very probably coming from different kinds of denominational background, and this will very much predicate what we expect of 'church' meetings.

[i]1) So you think there is no restriction on the number of prophetic words in a meeting?[/i]

If the Holy Spirit is in control of a meeting, and distributes a prophesy to each believer, which they dutifully deliver to the assembled saints, is that unbiblical? Paul states, (much more than a mere implication) 31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

Do you have a problem with Paul's permission?

[i]2) and that the whole congregation could literally prophesy one by one if they wanted to?[/i]

Ah! 'if they wanted to' is problematic.

Prophecy is never because the person with the word 'want's to. That would be closer to a WoF (Word of Faith) model, which is unbiblical. I needed to tease this out for you, in case this is what you have experienced, or, been taught is how 'prophecy' comes forth.

I would like your further comment on your second question, to indicate that you understand the word does not come from the prophet, but from God [i]through[/i] the believer who is thus stirred?

If your experience is of people making stuff up, and giving it as if it's a word from God, then that is a problem. But that's exactly why Paul put in the advice 'and let the other judge' (v 29, which part you did not quote in your question). It's a safety mechanism.

1 Cor 2:16, 1 John 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. [b]And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us[/b]. Rom 8:14

[i]3) hi, so what do you think verse 29 means?[/i]

29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

Quite simply, I believe the matter of judging a prophecy, is essential for the sake of newer Christians, and those who don't have that gift. I believe Paul is intent on 40 Let all things be done decently and in order, and his suggestion is borne out of sheer practicality, so that there is proper time given to considering the words which have been brought forth, before hearing any more.

In the light of v 32, 'And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets', I believe it is possible for a prophecy to be held back by the person to whom God is giving or has given, a word for the local assembly, such that they can wait until the judging of words already given is over. This is also an observation with regard to what prophecy is and is not. It is not an ecstatic utterance over which the person uttering it has no control.

In a similar observation, Jesus said 'For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.' Matt 6:21. The point is that 'I' decide what my treasure is. 'I' [i]govern[/i] my heart. 'I' can [i]direct[/i] my heart's affection upwards, and can set my mind on things above. Likewise, a prophet controls what comes out of his mouth by the same mechanism.

The practice which has appeared in pentecostal/charismatic churches, of the person with the word having to tell it to some official (rather than speak it out while it's fresh, for the other prophets to judge), is pernicious to the health of the body for a number of reasons. (Which we could explore later in this thread, if you're interested.)

And, v 32 also means that a prophet can keep quiet, knowing that if the word they are hearing in their spirit is from God, and He wants it spoken right then, He will give it to someone else. Thus, as a prophet, he can judge that word coming through another prophet, and can be one of those offering confirmation that it is indeed from God; 'for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.' Rev 19:10.


Is this making any sense?


It should be obvious that if the assembly wants to hear from God, then they may have to wait on Him, until He has finished speaking. Or until He has started speaking... and finished speaking.

If your question is borne out of the assumption that God has to speak when the saints choose to gather, and stop speaking when they choose to go home, then I'm certain He will co-operate, but the saints may not get to know His voice, His mind or His heart, under that system.

L
Lysa Jul 17, 2009

Lydian,

I knew a lady 30 years ago (I did NOT go to her church), but she was telling me that at her church there was a woman who prophesied all the time and she just "wondered" about her. She goes into a meeting once, sits next to her sister and starts telling her this false story (yep, she made it up) of nothing but trouble, the prophesying woman was sitting near them. Lo and behold, if that woman didn't start prophesying the solution to all their troubles.

The Bible does say "try the spirits and see whether they be of God or not." We are permitted to do this. 1 John 4.1 If more people [b]dared to believe[/b] this Scripture and did this, then possibly we'd have a LOT less garbage going on in the church.

All prophets prophesy but not all who prophesy are prophets. :-o

I wanted to say also, Lydian, that I agree with AlivetoGod (who gave one of the easiest explanations to understand that I've read - some people have written long books about this but truly it all boils down to her post!!), that Paul did give permission that one by one each of us can prophesy if we are led by the Holy Spirit.

God bless,

L
lydian Jul 18, 2009

hi Alive-to-God

great post, youve given me much to think about!

If the Holy Spirit is in control of a meeting, and distributes a prophesy to each believer, which they dutifully deliver to the assembled saints, is that unbiblical? Paul states, (much more than a mere implication) 31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

Do you have a problem with Paul's permission?
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Ok, i get it, if hypothetically every saint in the congregation was a submitted vessel willing to deliver a prophetic word "if" the Holy Spirit chooses to speak one through them , then no this is not unbiblical because God is in control, and can say as little or as much as he wants or needs to say in that given situation.

I am convinced Paul is saying that everyone in the congregation can prophesy, but im not 100% convinced he is permitting this in the same meeting. (im open to be wrong of course! as i probably am, but thats ok im just processing all this)

In the chapter Paul has been speaking about extremes, as in if everyone spoke in tounges v's everyone prophesying.

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2) and that the whole congregation could literally prophesy one by one if they wanted to?

you asked for further comment. i should have said one by one... if God wanted to speak through them.
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3) let the prophets speak two or three and let the others judge

yeah, ive not thought about this way before as youve explained it. i have had prophetic words on ocassions and being in the position of not knowing what to do with them! all these fears come like "what if im wrong" "should i just speak it out, but if i do then nobody will hear me because the volume of my voice is on par with that of a mouse" ect. yep, it sure is a learning curve
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The practice which has appeared in pentecostal/charismatic churches, of the person with the word having to tell it to some official (rather than speak it out while it's fresh, for the other prophets to judge), is pernicious to the health of the body for a number of reasons. (Which we could explore later in this thread, if you're interested.)


Aye. I have been in churches(pent/char) where there has not been any teaching/communication on what to do if you think God has given you a message, when and how to bring it,encouragement to get off your seat while your hearts thumping and go ask the pastor if you can share it then stand in front of folk 3x your age not knowing what on earth your doing other than the conviction that God wants you to say something!

oh well, maybe all these bad things can be good training in obedience and overcoming the fear of man!

great post , thanks again

sermonindex Jul 20, 2009


Hi lydian,

What you describe about not knowing what to do with a word, is not your 'fault'. The leadership of a church should consider themselves as submitted to you, as they wish you to be to them, especailly when it comes to the ministry of the gifts of the Spirit. Sometimes it is one of [i]them[/i] that needs to hear from God, for their own sake, or the sake of the whole body.

(im open to be wrong of course! as i probably am, but thats ok im just processing all this)
'where two or three'... Meetings aren't always a whole congregation. Or, the congregation may be quite small, in which case it may be essential that everyone has a word from God of one variety or another.

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