how does a new testament prophet equip the saint for work?

11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,

I am seeking to understand the role of a prophet in the NT. Can anyone help define their function in the church, and how they train the saints for the work of the ministry?

thanks all, hope to hear from you all. Maybe their are some prophets on here who can shed some light

The prophet's function is to bring forth a
word from the Spirit of truth and the LORD.
Pastors and teachers do the equipping and
training of saints for ministry.

Not everyone that moves in the gift of prophecy as listed in 1Corinthians 12 is a prophet. Anyone that is filled with the Holy Spirit can be used by God in prophecy. Prophecy is not some weird mysterious thing as some have made it out to be, but is simply speaking forth the will of God for the purpose of building up the Body of Christ.

In Ephesians 4 the five offices are listed and the prophet is one of them, and through the prophetic word the saints are in the process of being equipped and perfected for the ministry that the Lord has called them to.

Mike

Prophecy is not some weird mysterious thing as some have made it out to be, but is simply speaking forth the will of God for the purpose of building up the Body of Christ.

However, this is a common misapplication of what the Biblical term "prophesy" actually means. The Greek word renders simply a "speaking forth" (pro) of the "burden of God". Therefore, if a Christian is admonishing, exhorting the people with the burden of God, he is "prophesying" in a very true sense. Whether or not the exhortation or admonishment includes mentionings of future events is irrelevant; it is purely and essentially the speaking forth of the mind and heart of God that is the qualifier.

An excellent book that explains this topic more lucidly is the Puritan William Perkins' fine treatise, "The Art of Prophesying", first published in 1592.

yes Paul, the very mention of prophet/prophecy makes many off us step back as we have witnessed so much over emphasis abuse and error.

I know God has a place for it though, and im not going to allow the pendulum to swing to the opposite extreme where i dont practice it or encourage it myself.

That books sounds very interesting, i shoul check it out. Thanks

hi mike,
do you have any specific examples of what a Prophet would do? as in practical examples.

If all the prophet does is bring forth words then why the office , as all the chritians who are not prophets can prophesy anyway.

"and through the prophetic word the saints are in the process of being equipped and perfected"

can you expound a bit more on this?

i think what im getting at is, what does a prophet "do"

thanks for your input by the way

Hope you don't mind me popping in on this discussion. There are several passages in scripture that can help you understand the role of a NT prophet. Agabus, Barnabas, Niger, Lucius, Manaen, Saul, Judas, Silas are all mentioned in the NT as being prophets. Some scriptural referenced that might be worth study are: Acts 11:27-28, Acts 13:1-4, Acts 15:32-34, Acts 21:8-11 (A note on this scripture. Agabus filled the equipping office of a prophet, the four daughters of Philip were most likely not prophets, but rather operating in the gift of prophesy given in 1 Corinthians.). Jeremiah 1:10 could be very helpful in determining God's plan for using prophets, although Jeremiah was an OT prophet. Here is some of the text from a recent class our fellowship conducted on the five fold ministry giftings. "The following are some of the functions of prophets which can be deduced from the composite of many different Scriptures. Reveal the mind of Christ and give specific instruction concerning His personal will for the lives of individuals as well as for groups. Unveil revelation and illumination and inspired application of the Logos. Give confirmation and witness in various ways through their ministry. Relate divine direction to the Church and churches. Elicit repentance, reformation, and restoration." Hope this is of some help.

hi sojourner7

you think the passage is saying, only the pastors do the equipping and teachers?

if so, dont apostles and evangelists train and equipp? Ray comfort regarding evangelism would a magor example of training and equipping.

just trying to understand this whole thing, thanks for your input.love to hear more of your thoughts

twayneb

great post, thanks, lots to think about.

yes , twayneb , did post a good one . the ? of how does anew testament prophet equip the church , is a good one . I believe apostles establish churches , and once established and set up with a pastor , prophets can come in and give devine directions to the local church , this could be to a small group of believers or to a large local body of believers . I truely believe i am called to be a prophet, so i have sought God much on my personal role in life . the role that i only come up with is to pray . Prayer , prayer prayer , which is quit enjoyable , but the only Joy that thrills me to the utmost , is to truely know that i have heard from God . The prophet gets words from God about future events , I believe the reason is to Pray about it ,and to stir the church to pray for the people in harms way, to be spared from calamity. This office also know how to preach perfectly fitted words to peoples' heart cries to God words of encouragement and exhortation to God with God and unto Perfection of Holiness and sanctification . One of my favorite scriptures is rev.19:10 , which says . " worship God , for the testimony of Jesus Is the Spirit of prophesy ," all Christians can prophesy , but i do know that all are not called to the 5 fold ministry gift of the office of a prophet. Prophets in this 5 fold ministry gift know the devine direction that the local churchs, that God sends them too , are supposed to go . They inspire the local churh ,they are sent too , with words straight from the throne room of God , to take the path that God wants them to go . This is a broad definition . Hope it helps . Most men who have ever called themselves prophets , or who hav ever been called so by others are not true prophets . I know by personal exsprerience that coming to a place of functioning in this office , is a very sobering and shut off from everything ! place of prayer.I also believe that most of , if not all of the Gifts of the Spirit function through the new testament prophet , and this is the norm for this office . . God Bless , and welcome to sermonindex . Clint .

clintstone

brilliant, this was really what i was getting at, and your answer makes a lot of sense, thankyou.

interesting what you said about the gifts of the spirit also, will have to meditate on that.

Great posts twayneb and clintstone,

If I could add something here we must not depend on so called prophets to give us direction in our personal lives because we are to have an unction from the Holy One where we are to know all things whether they be of God or not because you do not want to be following a false prophet.

We must not depend on a prophet to lead us and tell us where to go and what to do.

A prophetic word is always a word from God for the edification of the body and is to speak to the spiritual man but the spiritual man must be following the leading of God's spirit within him.

Blessings to you all!

hello rbanks , I have laid my hands on people to be healed and the virtue did not flow out of me and i knew that i needed to give them some instructions to do , so that they would be healed if they did what i instructed . But , the instructions came fro the Holy Ghost and they have did as i told them and were healed . Now as far as being led by the Spirit of God , a prophet will confirm what the Holy Spirit has already told someone . I have God give my words to ministers , at stores and resturants , and i do not know them and have never seen them before , and the words of God , I give them always fit thier situation . This makes me think who am i that you would have me speak to your servants , and i just bow down and thank Him for using me . Oh! , how I long for the day to see this vision I have to come to pass, and this vision is about Jesus transforming man into His likeness . I have had a real hard time believing God would call me to such a vision but He has , and i hope too attain unto it . The only place i know of it coming to pass is a place in the wholehearted Spirit of Prayer. This Vision of God will be found by me when i seek Him with all my heart and not let up till is see it openly . The process of the ministration of the Holy Spirit comes to pass in our lives the same way the birthing of a baby comes to pass . First we have to feel and sense an emptiness , and have a need of filling that emptiness . Second we need to become open and naked before God , everything revealed , and opened too Him. Third , we have to have the conception from Him , a vision from Him , a seed given . Forth , we have to have the gestation period , for the ideals developement ,the seeds growth inside of us . Fifth , we have to have travail , there has to be this deep need to get the seed ,the vision out , to bless the world with the conception of God that we have recieved . The ministraton of the Holy Spirit always comes through us in this way . That which is natural points to the physical. Leonard ravenhills son preached on this at the church i attended in 1991 , leonard was there too , it was a great pleasure to be there in those meetings .. I know this was off the subject but felt this would help someone here ,, God bless . Clint

[b]Doctrine[/b]

Eph 3:4-5 whereby, when ye read, ye can perceive my understanding in the mystery of Christ; which in other generations was not made known unto the sons of men, as it hath now been revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit.

The above verses clearly associate Prophets with receiving revelation directly from God, and that revelation is not necessarily regarding the future but rather doctrine.

Corinthians 13:2 the gift of prophecy is explained as "understanding all mysteries and all knowledge." A "mystery," in New Testament terminology, is a secret, something unknowable apart from direct revelation. The underlying assumption is that the gift involved special revelation.

[b]The Past[/b]

Jesus could tell the hidden past of the woman at the well, He was immediately recognized as a prophet John 4:19

[b]The Future[/b]

Agabas exercised the gift of prophecy in a predictive way: he foretold a coming famine and also Paul's coming sufferings Acts 11:27-28, Acts 21:10-11

What you need to focus on right know is your relationship with God, his Spirit will work the work in you and accomplish what needs to be done as you lay down your life. Don't be in a hurry to step into ministry as the devil has tricked many in this way. There are timings for things to be done and you must go with Gods timings because if you go in your own time you will get out from under Gods protection.

Prayer should be your main concern, you should love to pray and communicate with God.

Your life style must be Holy, you can't be one thing at church and another at home, when it's time for you to preach you must live what you preach. You can't just preach the message [b]you must be the message[/b]

Has anyone read Wayne Grudem's [i]The Gift of Prophecy: In the New Testament and Today?[/i]

I heard a sermon by John Piper on NT propecy wherein he compared the cessationist and charismatic views, citing Richard Gaffin who held to a cessationist position that NT prophecy was on a par in authority to scripture and thus had ceased; and Grudem whose thesis is that NT prophecy was a completely different phenomenon to biblical inspiration and thus can be operated in the church today.
[url=http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Sermons/ByDate/2004/186_Using_Our_Gifts_in_Proportion_to_Our_Faith_Part_1/]John Piper - Using Our Gifts in Proportion to Our Faith (Rom12): The Gift of Prophecy [/url]

hi MURRCOLR

good post, again some more stuff to ponder

by the way, who was the following for? me(Lydian) or someone else?

""What you need to focus on right know is your relationship with God, his Spirit will work the work in you and accomplish what needs to be done as you lay down your life. Don't be in a hurry to step into ministry as the devil has tricked many in this way. There are timings for things to be done and you must go with Gods timings because if you go in your own time you will get out from under Gods protection.

Prayer should be your main concern, you should love to pray and communicate with God.

Your life style must be Holy, you can't be one thing at church and another at home, when it's time for you to preach you must live what you preach. You can't just preach the message you must be the message""

If it was for me, then i should say, im an Evangelist, not a young prophet seeking counsel(although by the questions im asking it would seem like it). I asked these questions, more of a desire to understand the 5 fold roles better as i believe God is calling me to be a vessel regarding church planting in scotland (im from Peterhead by the way)
what you have said is great advice tho. The last thing we want to do is birth an "ishmael" ministry. Id rather wait many years for the promises to come than try and and make it happen.

God bless

hi intrcssr83

mite have to have a listen to the piper sermon and take a look at waynes book. cheers

his name rings a bell, is he a calvanist that wrote a book about doctrine?

Fit like, Im fae Buckie but moved hoose into the toon a few years ago.

What you need to focus on right know is your relationship with God, his Spirit will work the work in you and accomplish what needs to be done as you lay down your life. Don't be in a hurry to step into ministry as the devil has tricked many in this way. There are timings for things to be done and you must go with Gods timings because if you go in your own time you will get out from under Gods protection.

Prayer should be your main concern, you should love to pray and communicate with God.

Your life style must be Holy, you can't be one thing at church and another at home, when it's time for you to preach you must live what you preach. You can't just preach the message you must be the message

It's something God spoke to me but it's good advice for anyone and for any ministry gift regardless of the calling on your life.

A Prophet is Ordained by God not men have a look at Jeremiah this typical of what happens.

Jer 1:4-5 Now the word of Jehovah came unto me, saying. Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

A Prophet before he is sent understands the Holiness of God and the sinful condition of himself and men and God does a work of Holiness in his Prophet before he is sent.

Isa 6:5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, Jehovah of hosts.

Isa 6:7 and he touched my mouth with it, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin forgiven.

Isa 6:8 And I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then I said, Here am I; send me.

They will have a defined message.

Isa 6:9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.

Also there will be a defined area of influence.

Isa 1:1 The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem, in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah.

Jer 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

When the Prophet is sent by God he will remind the People who God Jer 2:5. He will remind the people what God has done for them Jer 2:7 and he will confront the sin in the people. Jer 2:8 Jer 2:13

Repentance will be called for Jer 3:22 they will be reminded of the promises of God how he can deal with there sin Jer 4:1 If the people do not turn and repent then Judgement will come Jer 4:12.

Know you can get that to lesser degrees of prophets for example on a church level Acts 11:28 and a personnel level Acts 21:10.

But you can't just limit the Prophet to operating in only the above. Prophets reveal the mysteries that are in scripture Esp 3:5 Rev 10:7 they also are the foundation of what the church is built on Esp 2:20 They will tear down things but he will also build and plant Jer 1:10 There lifes are examples Jam 5:20 They will be driven by a deep love for God and for people 1Cor 13:2 they will walk in the more excellent way 1Cor 12:31 and will understand that way because it says in Jas 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without variance, without hypocrisy. The Prophet a true Prophet is full of the wisdom from above. Leonard Ravenhall describes a Prophet as totally "otherworldly."

The Prophet will be misunderstood and hated Matt 23:34 and revered when he is dead Luke 11:47. They are strong Ezek 3:8 and fearless Ezek 3:9 because of the work God does in them. He is equipped by God to face the generation that he lives in Ezek 3:9 he speaks the truth if they like it or not Ezek 3:11.

by lydian on 2009/7/20 19:54:48

hi intrcssr83

mite have to have a listen to the piper sermon and take a look at waynes book. cheers

his name rings a bell, is he a calvanist that wrote a book about doctrine?

Yes, Wayne Grudem is the author of the [i]Systematic Theology[/i] textbook. Doctrinally, he can best be described as a Reformed-Charismatic: he holds to a calvinistic soteriology as well as a "Third Wave" view of spiritual gifts that C. Peter Wagner, Jack Deere, John Wimber, The Vineyard Movement, et al, are known for. An odd combo to be sure, but he's well-reputed among those on both sides.