God and state seperate? No way!

sermonindex Jul 18, 2009

By William J. Federer
© 2009 WorldNetDaily.com

America's founders did not intend for there to be a separation of God and state, as shown by the fact that all 50 states acknowledged God in their state constitutions:

Alabama 1901, Preamble. We the people of the State of Alabama ... invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish the following Constitution ...

Alaska 1956, Preamble. We, the people of Alaska, grateful to God and to those who founded our nation and pioneered this great land ...

Arizona 1911, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Arizona, grateful to Almighty God for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution ...

Arkansas 1874, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Arkansas, grateful to Almighty God for the privilege of choosing our own form of government ...

California 1879, Preamble. We, the People of the State of California, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom ...

Colorado 1876, Preamble. We, the people of Colorado, with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of Universe ...

Connecticut 1818, Preamble. The People of Connecticut, acknowledging with gratitude the good Providence of God in permitting them to enjoy ...

Delaware 1897, Preamble. Through Divine Goodness all men have, by nature, the rights of worshipping and serving their Creator according to the dictates of their consciences ...

Florida 1885, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Florida, grateful to Almighty God for our constitutional liberty ... establish this Constitution ...

Georgia 1777, Preamble. We, the people of Georgia, relying upon protection and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish this Constitution ...

Hawaii 1959, Preamble. We, the people of Hawaii, Grateful for Divine Guidance ... establish this Constitution ...

Idaho 1889, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Idaho, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings ...

Illinois 1870, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Illinois, grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors ...

Indiana 1851, Preamble. We, the People of the State of Indiana, grateful to Almighty God for the free exercise of the right to chose our form of government ...

Iowa 1857, Preamble. We, the People of the State of Iowa, grateful to the Supreme Being for the blessings hitherto enjoyed, and feeling our dependence on Him for a continuation of these blessings ... establish this Constitution ...

Kansas 1859, Preamble. We, the people of Kansas, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious privileges ... establish this Constitution ...

Kentucky 1891, Preamble. We, the people of the Commonwealth of Kentucky, grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties ...

Louisiana 1921, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Louisiana, grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties we enjoy ...

Maine 1820, Preamble. We the People of Maine ... acknowledging with grateful hearts the goodness of the Sovereign Ruler of the Universe in affording us an opportunity ... and imploring His aid and direction ...

Maryland 1776, Preamble. We, the people of the state of Maryland, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberty ...

Massachusetts 1780, Preamble. We...the people of Massachusetts, acknowledging with grateful hearts, the goodness of the Great Legislator of the Universe... in the course of His Providence, an opportunity ... and devoutly imploring His direction ...

Michigan 1908, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Michigan, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of freedom ... establish this Constitution ...

Minnesota, 1857, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Minnesota, grateful to God for our civil and religious liberty, and desiring to perpetuate its blessings ...

Mississippi 1890, Preamble. We, the people of Mississippi in convention assembled, grateful to Almighty God, and invoking His blessing on our work ...

Missouri 1945, Preamble. We, the people of Missouri, with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, and grateful for His goodness ... establish this Constitution ...

Montana 1889, Preamble. We, the people of Montana, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty ... establish this Constitution ...

Nebraska 1875, Preamble. We, the people, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom ... establish this Constitution ...

Nevada 1864, Preamble. We the people of the State of Nevada, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom ... establish this Constitution ...

New Hampshire 1792, Part I. Art. I. Sec. V. Every individual has a natural and unalienable right to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience ...

New Jersey 1844, Preamble. We, the people of the State of New Jersey, grateful to Almighty God for civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors …

New Mexico 1911, Preamble. We, the People of New Mexico, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty ...

New York 1846, Preamble. We, the people of the State of New York, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, in order to secure its blessings ...

North Carolina 1868, Preamble. We the people of the State of North Carolina, grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations, for ... our civil, political, and religious liberties, and acknowledging our dependence upon Him for the continuance of those ...

North Dakota 1889, Preamble. We, the people of North Dakota, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, do ordain...

Ohio 1852, Preamble. We the people of the state of Ohio, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings and to promote our common ...

Oklahoma 1907, Preamble. Invoking the guidance of Almighty God, in order to secure and perpetuate the blessings of liberty ... establish this ...

Oregon 1857, Bill of Rights, Article I. Section 2. All men shall be secure in the Natural right, to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their consciences ...

Pennsylvania 1776, Preamble. We, the people of Pennsylvania, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, and humbly invoking His guidance ...

Rhode Island 1842, Preamble. We the People of the State of Rhode Island ... grateful to Almighty God for the civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing ...

South Carolina, 1778, Preamble. We, the people of the State of South Carolina ... grateful to God for our liberties, do ordain and establish this Constitution ...

South Dakota 1889, Preamble. We, the people of South Dakota, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberties ... establish this Constitution ...

Tennessee 1796, Art. XI.III. That all men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their conscience ...

Texas 1845, Preamble. We the People of the Republic of Texas, acknowledging, with gratitude, the grace and beneficence of God ...

Utah 1896, Preamble. Grateful to Almighty God for life and liberty, we ... establish this Constitution ...

Vermont 1777, Preamble. Whereas all government ought to ... enable the individuals who compose it to enjoy their natural rights, and other blessings which the Author of Existence has bestowed on man ...

Virginia 1776, Bill of Rights, XVI ... Religion, or the Duty which we owe our Creator ... can be directed only by Reason ... and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian Forbearance, Love and Charity towards each other ...

Washington 1889, Preamble. We the People of the State of Washington, grateful to the Supreme Ruler of the Universe for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution ...

West Virginia 1872, Preamble. Since through Divine Providence we enjoy the blessings of civil, political and religious liberty, we, the people of West Virginia ... reaffirm our faith in and constant reliance upon God ...

Wisconsin 1848, Preamble. We, the people of Wisconsin, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, domestic tranquility ...

Wyoming 1890, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Wyoming, grateful to God for our civil, political, and religious liberties ... establish this Constitution ...

After reviewing acknowledgments of God from all 50 state constitutions, one is faced with the prospect that maybe, just maybe, the ACLU and the out-of-control federal courts are wrong.

W

Wordizlife Jul 18, 2009

hey this is a cool list. especially since im taking a sociology class atm.

sermonindex Jul 18, 2009

about what you pray for, you might just get it.

I am not,repeat not, trying to be contentious, but if you want a theocracy, by all means, pray for whatever God the Holy Ghost leads you to pray for, but you might not like the way a theocracy walks itself out.

H

hmmhmm Jul 18, 2009

the concept of theocracy is old covenant, we have a new covenant, its internal, the kingdom of God is not so we can see it with our eyes, our kingdom, our country is not of this world, to me it seem just foolish to waste our time about what our governments did in the past, what they are doing right now. They do much good for sure, much may be in line with what scripture says is good, most things are abominable and a stench to God i am convinced for myself.

But what we should lay our focus and energy is not turning America into a theocracy, but turning lost sinners into saints by set our selves as flaming bright lights in the midst of this wicked evil generation. We are commanded to pray and pay taxes, that is about how involved we should be in the government, pray for them, give them their money..... Let us build the kingdom of heaven, let us be worried for that kingdom, let us be worried for our king is soon coming and time is short. For our selves and our homes and families, ae we ~~[b]~~burning[/b] for God?

No government in the world who allows gay marriages and abortion can be called a christian nation, its not possible, if all laws where regulated after the NT i could call that a christian nation, but since the laws of ALL western countries are opposed to what God has said, in direct enmity with God and his person, they say his name and call him lord but by their actions they spit in his face by killing children and many more abominable things.

I thank the Lord there are many Christians in America, many wonderful brethren and sisters, but so many are so caught up with the basest of men God put as kings i fear they miss the eternal things by so much focus on what soon will be in flames, we should be worried about the people inside the building, not the building itself, America with all creation will burn in fire and brimstone, nothing will stop that, but still some of the Americans can escape that burning fire. Yet so many are worried about the house while the people are still inside.

Dont save america, save the americans.... they are on their way to hell.

W

White_Stone Jul 18, 2009

Dear Brother hmmhmm,

~~[b]~~[color=0000FF]Dont save america, save the americans.... they are on their way to hell.[/color][/b]

That has NEVER been better phrased! AMEN!

G

ginnyrose Jul 18, 2009

God and state separate? No way

You gotta be kidding! No kidding! I am mortified that anyone would even believe that because states mention God in their preamble that this would mean they meant the church and state be combined!! Oh, my....

Hey, think a bit- what would happen if the Calvinists were in control? You know what happens here on SI when you have a Cal/Arm debate...it can get nasty. Now allow those on the fringe to have legal protection, those of us who are peace minded will no doubt have to run for our lives! Really! If you think I am joking I am NOT! Check out your history, the 1500s era. The reformers hunted the Anabaptists like rabbits and hauled them in and eventually tortured and killed them.(Actually some historians say the reformers' persecution was worse then that inflicted by the Catholics!) And I do not think for one minute, believe that modern Calvinists have improved their tolerance for those who dare to differ. Oh ,sure, there are some but it is those on the fringe one would need to leery of.

I think the Christian will fare a lot better under Obama then under a government ruled by a 'protestant church'....

I am quite upset, as you can see...

ginnyrose

P

PreachParsly Jul 18, 2009

God and state seperate? No way!

The kingdom of the world and the kingdom of God separate? In which way?

sermonindex Jul 19, 2009

When we look at the Book of Romans, we see what God does to people and nations that have rejected Him. How does a person or a nation reject Him? By not honoring God and allowing: Abortion on demand; depravity as the norm, licentiousness, etc. etc. etc.

America has rejected God, and they have now been judged, and have already been "given over" to vile affections: "for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Romans 1:18-32

America, my friend, has already been judged.

What we see today,is the "fruit" of that judgment.

May God have mercy on America!!

Sincerely,

Walter

thingsabove wrote:
By William J. Federer
© 2009 WorldNetDaily.com
America's founders did not intend for there to be a separation of God and state, as shown by the fact that all 50 states acknowledged God in their state constitutions:
Alabama 1901, Preamble. We the people of the State of Alabama ... invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish the following Constitution ...
Alaska 1956, Preamble. We, the people of Alaska, grateful to God and to those who founded our nation and pioneered this great land ...
Arizona 1911, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Arizona, grateful to Almighty God for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution ...
Arkansas 1874, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Arkansas, grateful to Almighty God for the privilege of choosing our own form of government ...
California 1879, Preamble. We, the People of the State of California, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom ...
Colorado 1876, Preamble. We, the people of Colorado, with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of Universe ...
Connecticut 1818, Preamble. The People of Connecticut, acknowledging with gratitude the good Providence of God in permitting them to enjoy ...
Delaware 1897, Preamble. Through Divine Goodness all men have, by nature, the rights of worshipping and serving their Creator according to the dictates of their consciences ...
Florida 1885, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Florida, grateful to Almighty God for our constitutional liberty ... establish this Constitution ...
Georgia 1777, Preamble. We, the people of Georgia, relying upon protection and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish this Constitution ...
Hawaii 1959, Preamble. We, the people of Hawaii, Grateful for Divine Guidance ... establish this Constitution ...
Idaho 1889, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Idaho, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings ...
Illinois 1870, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Illinois, grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors ...
Indiana 1851, Preamble. We, the People of the State of Indiana, grateful to Almighty God for the free exercise of the right to chose our form of government ...
Iowa 1857, Preamble. We, the People of the State of Iowa, grateful to the Supreme Being for the blessings hitherto enjoyed, and feeling our dependence on Him for a continuation of these blessings ... establish this Constitution ...
Kansas 1859, Preamble. We, the people of Kansas, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious privileges ... establish this Constitution ...
Kentucky 1891, Preamble. We, the people of the Commonwealth of Kentucky, grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties ...
Louisiana 1921, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Louisiana, grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties we enjoy ...
Maine 1820, Preamble. We the People of Maine ... acknowledging with grateful hearts the goodness of the Sovereign Ruler of the Universe in affording us an opportunity ... and imploring His aid and direction ...
Maryland 1776, Preamble. We, the people of the state of Maryland, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberty ...
Massachusetts 1780, Preamble. We...the people of Massachusetts, acknowledging with grateful hearts, the goodness of the Great Legislator of the Universe... in the course of His Providence, an opportunity ... and devoutly imploring His direction ...
Michigan 1908, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Michigan, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of freedom ... establish this Constitution ...
Minnesota, 1857, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Minnesota, grateful to God for our civil and religious liberty, and desiring to perpetuate its blessings ...
Mississippi 1890, Preamble. We, the people of Mississippi in convention assembled, grateful to Almighty God, and invoking His blessing on our work ...
Missouri 1945, Preamble. We, the people of Missouri, with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, and grateful for His goodness ... establish this Constitution ...
Montana 1889, Preamble. We, the people of Montana, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty ... establish this Constitution ...
Nebraska 1875, Preamble. We, the people, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom ... establish this Constitution ...
Nevada 1864, Preamble. We the people of the State of Nevada, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom ... establish this Constitution ...
New Hampshire 1792, Part I. Art. I. Sec. V. Every individual has a natural and unalienable right to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience ...
New Jersey 1844, Preamble. We, the people of the State of New Jersey, grateful to Almighty God for civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors …
New Mexico 1911, Preamble. We, the People of New Mexico, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty ...
New York 1846, Preamble. We, the people of the State of New York, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, in order to secure its blessings ...
North Carolina 1868, Preamble. We the people of the State of North Carolina, grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations, for ... our civil, political, and religious liberties, and acknowledging our dependence upon Him for the continuance of those ...
North Dakota 1889, Preamble. We, the people of North Dakota, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, do ordain...
Ohio 1852, Preamble. We the people of the state of Ohio, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings and to promote our common ...
Oklahoma 1907, Preamble. Invoking the guidance of Almighty God, in order to secure and perpetuate the blessings of liberty ... establish this ...
Oregon 1857, Bill of Rights, Article I. Section 2. All men shall be secure in the Natural right, to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their consciences ...
Pennsylvania 1776, Preamble. We, the people of Pennsylvania, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, and humbly invoking His guidance ...
Rhode Island 1842, Preamble. We the People of the State of Rhode Island ... grateful to Almighty God for the civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing ...
South Carolina, 1778, Preamble. We, the people of the State of South Carolina ... grateful to God for our liberties, do ordain and establish this Constitution ...
South Dakota 1889, Preamble. We, the people of South Dakota, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberties ... establish this Constitution ...
Tennessee 1796, Art. XI.III. That all men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their conscience ...
Texas 1845, Preamble. We the People of the Republic of Texas, acknowledging, with gratitude, the grace and beneficence of God ...
Utah 1896, Preamble. Grateful to Almighty God for life and liberty, we ... establish this Constitution ...
Vermont 1777, Preamble. Whereas all government ought to ... enable the individuals who compose it to enjoy their natural rights, and other blessings which the Author of Existence has bestowed on man ...
Virginia 1776, Bill of Rights, XVI ... Religion, or the Duty which we owe our Creator ... can be directed only by Reason ... and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian Forbearance, Love and Charity towards each other ...
Washington 1889, Preamble. We the People of the State of Washington, grateful to the Supreme Ruler of the Universe for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution ...
West Virginia 1872, Preamble. Since through Divine Providence we enjoy the blessings of civil, political and religious liberty, we, the people of West Virginia ... reaffirm our faith in and constant reliance upon God ...
Wisconsin 1848, Preamble. We, the people of Wisconsin, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, domestic tranquility ...
Wyoming 1890, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Wyoming, grateful to God for our civil, political, and religious liberties ... establish this Constitution ...
After reviewing acknowledgments of God from all 50 state constitutions, one is faced with the prospect that maybe, just maybe, the ACLU and the out-of-control federal courts are wrong.

sermonindex Jul 19, 2009

Well, I am now reminded why I stopped posting on this site.

Glad Wordizlife finds this usefull as well as Waltern

I'll add this. The march has been on to remove references to God from public square and Government. The Atheists have been leading the charge for many years. Christians who have a fuzzy understanding about this have added to the continuing success of the Atheist agenda.

The overall all intent of the founders was that Government would not control the people by deciding that all would be catholics or baptists etc. However, the American Government and people would need to acknowledge God in order to succeed as a nation.

So again, there is a seperation of the State from the Church but not a seperation of God from the State.

For those who want to balance their understanding on this Try "Wallbuilders" and also "Americanminute".

God bless.

P

PreachParsly Jul 19, 2009

Well, I am now reminded why I stopped posting on this site.

I sincerely hope you don't feel that way because of my comment. I wasn't trying to mock you or anything like that. All I was meaning by it was to question if there is a separation between government and Christianity. Is government considered part of the kingdom of the world? And if so, is there a separation between the kingdom of the world and the kingdom of God?

Does our view of how the kingdom of the world should operate have any intrinsic value to the kingdom of God? Or does it promote or effect the kingdom of God if I hold one view of how the kingdom of the world should operate as opposed to another view?

I'm just asking questions that have been floating around in my head.

- Josh

sermonindex Jul 19, 2009

thingsabove said:

"I'll add this. The march has been on to remove references to God from public square and Government. The Atheists have been leading the charge for many years. Christians who have a fuzzy understanding about this have added to the continuing success of the Atheist agenda."

"So again, there is a seperation of the State from the Church but not a seperation of God from the State."

I agree that God, as it pertains to our Founding Father's is part of the basic principles of this nation. But I also believe that God in name only won't tackle the many ills of a society. Government entities throughout all history have failed to glorify God. Even Constantine's attempt to mesh both was fraught with stumblings and disingenuous power grabs of religiousity.

My opinion is that many people get 'separation' and 'segragation' confused. We are to be in the world but not of the world. Segragation is physical and separation spiritual. The problem lies in the demand of the church to insinuate itself into gov't affairs only to fail in separating itself spiritually. There seems to be no separation of church and state when it comes to the mainstream church looking just like the world in a power grab of influence. My observation is that when the church and state sleep in the same bed, ultimately it is the church who changes to the way of the state. So who is influencing who?

Where is Christ in the Constitution? We can't have a Christian nation without Christ so why stop short?? Christ is constantly rejected out of our own fear of rejection in my opinion. And with this rejection comes a lack of influence. God forbid!! Even the modern day creationists, who spend countless hours debating evolution to get their theology into our public schools, can't even muster up the courage to mention Christ. Why? Because they know it will be a losing battle to demand He be taught in our schools. In doing so they have let the world dictate the debate in determining the creation of the world. They debate in their intellect to craft a backdoor 'Christless' theology that only attempts to debunk evolution rather than preaching a Savior. It is Christ that is the reason why we all know evolution is bunk. Yet we leave Him to the side in order to punch a square peg of creationism into the round hole of a lost world that will never understand creationism without Him. Without Christ there is no power... apart from Him we can do nothing (although God's patience in His perfect plan allows us to 'think' we are doing something on His behalf).

I often wonder why God has let the Atheists have so much influence. We obviously outnumber them in the public arena so why do so few have so much clout? Could it be because the church is caught up in doing things its way by power grabbing to the point of hypocrisy for all to see??? I don't know the exclusive answer but I'm a little tired of so called christian politicians and leaders of mega churches speaking for me as a christian.

Biblical history suggests to me that it is the church who is judged first. Had Israel not compromised itself to worldly ways, they may have had more influence on the rulers of the world... rulers who were, in many ways, sent as a judgment upon them.

Perhaps Atheist power and influence is a judgment against a mainstream American church that wants wealth, power, and carte blanc on sin. Perhaps the removal of biblical precepts from gov't property is God's way of telling us that our hypocrisy can only go so far. Or maybe the Alabama State Supreme court isn't worthy of the Ten Commandments. Regardless, our battle is not with flesh and blood. But we would rather flex our influential muscles in power and influence than spend time with The One who can really make a difference.

{edit} We don't need a doubleminded church, we need a church who will stop screaming 'foul!' and start living like the Bible demands. We need a church who won't complain about the cross it must bear and one that's more willing to enter a prayer closet than a protest march. We must do things His way or no amount 'God' on a piece of paper will matter.

C

chapel Jul 19, 2009

ccrider wrote:

{edit} We don't need a doubleminded church, we need a church who will stop screaming 'foul!' and start living like the Bible demands. We need a church who won't complain about the cross it must bear and one that's more willing to enter a prayer closet than a protest march. We must do things His way or no amount 'God' on a piece of paper will matter.

Amen!

G

ginnyrose Jul 19, 2009

thingsabove,

I reread your post and I want to admit here that I jumped the gun on this one. And for this I apologize. When I saw the title, I immediately perceived it to mean "church and state". And this is what I really fear given the history of times past.

It makes Christians feel good when public officials acknowledge God in the course of business. But how does God see this? Makes me wonder if in reality He is not mocked because so many of these folks use "God" to get votes and favor with the people they govern. Missippi politicians are very good (or is it bad?) about doing this. It was in a MS newspaper the other day about our former representative Pickering who is divorcing his wife - he got involved in adultery..While serving as rep, he was involved with Promise Keepers, pro-lifer, pro-family (he has five boys). He was a missionary to Hungry before he married. Many [former] Missippi governors are conservative politically, say the right things but their private lives are in shambles.

So, what good does it do for politicians to talk about God in the public square when they are the days' poster boy for hypocrisy?

I know we hate to see God maligned in the public, but do you not think the reason this happens is largely because of the hypocrisy of so-called Christians? Do you not think this is the greater problem?

So the ACLU is succeeding in erasing references to God from the public square...tragic, I admit.

I get emails raising this alarm "and to help stop the current onslaught of this travesty, please send money to this organization and we will stop it". And they ain't stopped anything yet - the only thing they will accomplish is pad their bank account by preying on the fears of the American Christian. They have promised to stop abortion upon demand and it ain't happened yet.

You want to know why I do not think this problem [of abortion] will be solved politically? Because it is at its heart a spiritual problem. Folks have spurned God, are not repentant. Religious folks are the best customers for AB clinics. Abortionist Tiller was in church when he was murdered. There is a similar situation in an Al city where the local abortionist is very popular in the city, in civic affairs as well as church. How can these folks be there regularly and be comfortable? The problem lies with modern churches and the solution also lies there - the solution for whatever ails America, except I think the modern, popular church has gone so far I am not sure it can be redeemed anymore. So, that leaves you and me, and you, and you, and you...

Blessings,
ginnyrose

sermonindex Jul 19, 2009

I agree that we the church are the light to America that she might see again.

For all of us here I add that yes, God chastises those He loves. He loves America as also He loves the whole world. There are special blessings for nations who recognize Him as God and the giver of life.

Above all, His Mercy is what has and will continue to sustain our nation. He says I desire mercy not judgement. So I believe He still has much mercy to extend to America. I also believe there are many righteous in America calling out to Him!

sermonindex Jul 19, 2009

thingabove wrote:
"I agree that we the church are the light to America that she might see again.

For all of us here I add that yes, God chastises those He loves. He loves America as also He loves the whole world. There are special blessings for nations who recognize Him as God and the giver of life.

Above all, His Mercy is what has and will continue to sustain our nation. He says I desire mercy not judgement. So I believe He still has much mercy to extend to America. I also believe there are many righteous in America calling out to Him!"

Well said thingsabove, you summed it up right there!! I had to put your post in its entirety. Thanks for this.

cc-

sermonindex Jul 20, 2009

"There are special blessings for nations who recognize Him as God and the giver of life." thingsabove

I have to qualify though that in order to receive from Him we must also live as He commands in His spirit. There is a difference between receiving a blessing and having His sovereign mercy sustain us until His perfect will is fulfilled.

Recognition alone is like someone declaring they have Christ but live as if they never knew Him.
This was Israel's problem and it is our problem in many ways as well.

May He bless and tarry for the sake of the remnant who do cry out on behalf of those who think recognition is a saving grace in and of itself.

cc-

sermonindex Jul 22, 2009

This compilation article form www.wallbuilders.com is another very powrefull testimony!!! Enjoy.

http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles.asp?id=8755#FN123

sermonindex Jul 22, 2009

I find it curious that such men who were so passionate about Christ left His name out of the Constitution. Why? I won't question motive but it's a simple and obvious observation. I also found this on the site:

....................................
Voting Guides
***WallBuilders has released a 2008 Presidential Voters’ Guide, which looks at the stance of the Presidential candidates from both parties on fourteen key issues. Read and download the Voters' Guide here.

The pro-family organizations listed below provide voters resources for most states. Click on the organizations’ links to get more information.

American Family Association: Voter Resources
Catholic Answers: Voter's Guide
Christian Coalition: Voter Guides
Eagle Forum: Election Central
Family Research Council: Voting Records
Focus on the Family: CitizenLink
National Right to Life Committee: Voting Records
Pew Forum: Religion and Politics 08
..........................................

And if you look at this link, and others, you'll find obvious leanings:

http://www.wallbuilders.com/resources/misc/CivilRightsPlatforms.pdf

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This site is way too close to the political fray for me and I don't find it credibly impartial. The AFA and Christian Coalition have been found to do some underhanded and, in my view, un-Christlike things in the past to manipulate elections as well as fundraising ventures that smack of hypocrisy. This looks to me like a typical activist website that blames everyone but the church for our own moral failure. Ted Haggard, Ralph Reed, Pat Robertson (who supported a candidate that endorsed abortion) were among these kinds of organizations (and I pray they all repent and come back in humble sincerity.. which includes Rick Warren's and some of his stances and motives). I also have in the past visited prophetic websites that have similar type info on them... And these are prophets that I consider to be false, so there is a wide spectrum of church interaction and likemindedness in this area. As much as moral liberism is a problem, the credibility of these org's are questionable at best and I don't think what they represent is the right approach to deliver a nation. The site seems to be inclusive of basically any denomination as long as a specific agenda is served. As I had said before, you can blame Atheists or whoever else for the moral decline of a nation or you can examine yourself as a church and understand that a wayward church has no power.

The Bible speaks of falling away from faith, from sound doctrine, having itching ears. To those who have and ear, the mainstream American church is all too known for it's soft Gospel these days and it won't be delivered by dead forefathers or a branch of a church that emphasizes on moralistic activism. I don't sense the Spirit of God at all in these kinds of sites. I'll stick to the Bible, my prayer closet, and my relationship with Christ as it pertains to my decrease and His increase as my foundation for God's will.

You can have facts and still not have truth. You can have morality and still lack the righteousness of God in Christ.

Carter Conlon touches on some of this activity in this sermon.

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=1724&commentView=itemComments

sermonindex Jul 22, 2009

The constitution is a legal document for the conducting of the State and Federal Government.
The Declaration of independence already mentioned God four times. Also the "Bill of Rights" amended to the constitution secure religious liberties. The purpose of the constition was to provide legal framework for the State and fed Gov to operate. It was not meant as a document to establish a theocracy.

G

ginnyrose Jul 22, 2009

The kingdom of the world and the kingdom of God separate? In which way?

Both are ministers of God. But each has a different ministry.

The church is to call people to repentance.

The civil authorities, according to Romans 13:3,4, are to be a terror to evil and a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Nowhere do we find the church commissioned to carry out the wrath of God upon the ungodly, although we may ~~[i]~~feel[/i] like it sometimes.

ginnyrose