Christianity & Republicanism

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anonymity Jul 21, 2009

I have a couple thoughts and inquiries about the subject of Christianity and Republicanism. I am writing to Christians who hold to Republican views.

I know that it is good for Christians to be Republican because of many conservative moral values and ethics. However I am not sure to what degree. I do know though that Republicans seem to at least be against abortion and a couple other things that Democrats are not.

I know that it is good to be patriotic and that one should hold the values we began with and what has made this country.

On the issue of smaller government. Could not larger government work? I mean hasn't there been large government in affluent nations before?

On the issue of less taxes and proposing that taxing from the rich and giving to the poor is stealing. Does not even God in His law tell us to give to the poor for instance leaving some of the harvest?

On the issue of spending is not the way to get out of bankruptcy. Is not certain ways of spending investment which is often wise? Especially since we are in a crisis and desperate measures need to be taken.

These are just a couple thoughts I've been having and I'd like to hear from people on.

T

TaylorOtwell Jul 21, 2009

The President takes an oath to defend and uphold the Constitution. He doesn't take an oath to "protect the American people", or any other oath.

No, a larger government won't work. It's bloated and costs too much money, as has been proven time and time again throughout history.

Regarding taxing the rich and giving to the poor, God's concern was social equity (justice) not social equality (socialism) - does that make sense? It is not just to take something that someone earned and forcibly give it to someone else - that is theft. It is fine for the rich to give to the poor, that is generosity. There is a large difference between the two.

With care in Christ,
Taylor

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anonymity Jul 21, 2009

Taylor,

That does not sound good. He does not take an oath to protect the American people? I am pretty sure that the Constitution's purpose is to protect the American people. If the President is not trying to protect the American people then what else would he be trying to do? I am pretty sure though that you are just trying to say that he needs to be about the law before being social lest he somehow to something unjust in putting the people before the law or what is wise.

I have heard that before, but I think there have been affluent nations in which there was big government. I am not a history buff, but I can at least look to the history in Scripture. I mean I am sure that wherever there was a king in contrast to a president or something there was a big government. Sure maybe these kingdoms tumbled, but it may not have been immediate. I mean prophetically all kingdoms will fall at sometime.

Equity or Equality. I do not think that having the rich pay for healthcare or something is going to make the poor equal to the rich.

sermonindex Jul 21, 2009

Both parties are secular in their make up. Regardless of the long-winded and much debated 'Godly principles' (I won't say 'christian' principles as Christ is nowhere to be found in our written origin) that we were founded on, the two party system and balance of power was the idea of, although fairly brilliant, mere men.

Both have clear hypocrisy on the issues they espouse. So to debate and discern who should belong to what is inviting a discussion that limits us to only the paramters of how effectively each party can hold a moral or ethical standard without God. Clearly our government leaders have not proven, now and historically, to be in the counsel of God when it comes to Godly governance. Therefore someone who is born-again remains true to God and His word first... as it is the light that exposes the corrupted fruits of leadership, despite affiliation, and prays for them as leaders of Gov't and not one particular party.

God has raised leadership on both sides to run the country by His sovereign will and both have fallen short of God's glory. I'm reluctant to even think of belonging to anything that I know is disingenous in almost every aspect except POWER and CONTROL. How embarrassing is it to lump ourselves with one crowd or another only to be guilty by association because of the corruption each crowd takes part in. To me that doesn't minister much to the unsaved, especially if they may belong to the opposing affiliation. I believe this is a wedge to ministry as many are forced to choose sides and then defend the choice in the face of obvious moral shortcomings and hypocrisy. I respect christians and leadership who stick to the issues that pertain to God's word and condemn justly and equitably all that offends it. Many preachers on this site like Carter Conlon, Jim Cymbala, and Paul Washer stick to the issues and speak fairly and justly against the moral ills of our church and our country in a just and sincere manner. This is what I look for in a preacher as it lends a certain credibility in speaking truth to all despite their affiliation or bias.

Having said all this, this should be a thread where maturity reigns as we all know how quickly we can be baited to over-extend our opinion or criticism on such a premise as ideology. The enemy is all to happy to turn brethren against eachother on disputable matters. If the poster is sincere, and I believe they are, then we should approach this with caution and check ego's and bias at the keyboard ;-)

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sojourner7 Jul 21, 2009

When the G.O.P. forgets G-O-D, it will lose
m-e!!

Mike Huckabee

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anonymity Jul 21, 2009

Ccrider,

Yeah I knew that would need to be pointed out to not become argumentative and what not. I do not tend toward this on this subject because I also understand as you have written that there are more essential things.

I understand your position on not standing with a party because of fault. I guess I would say that a lot is upon what God has called you to. I know there is error, but I am not sure a Christian should totally throw the baby out with the bath water it would be good to point out though that you do not claim the party to be infallible.

It looks like you have well thought over the issue interesting post.

G

ginnyrose Jul 21, 2009

I know that it is good for Christians to be Republican because of many conservative moral values and ethics. However I am not sure to what degree. I do know though that Republicans seem to at least be against abortion and a couple other things that Democrats are not.

When I was a young woman, I thoroughly enjoyed reading about politics, civil affairs. I knew who was president and could name all of his cabinet members..it was fascinating..Then along came Watergate and some people 'lost their heads' and I lost faith in elected officials. Eventually, some of this faith returned with Ronald Reagan's tenure as president. Then Bill Clinton came along and destroyed it again; GW Bush restored it somewhat but it now is down in the basement - which is where I am beginning to believe is where God wants it to be. So why and how did this happen?

I trusted these people to be honest. People around me worked to be honest so when a man says such and such does he not mean it? Does this not reflect his mindset, his lifestyle? And the answer to this is "NO". People will say anything to get votes, including the Republican party. I have no clue how many elected officials are saints of God. I cannot judge, but too many of them from Missippi leaves one asking too many uncomfortable questions. They are handy in using Bible, family values to get people to vote for them. DO NOT LET THIS FOOL YOU!!!!

This is modern American politics. The more I am becoming aware of their modus operandi the more I feel like not voting anymore....until a candidate comes along and talks so nice.... :-x

Many folks will say you cannot impose moral values upon people. Yet, this is what the law of the land does, e.g., if you steal, you will be tried and if found guilty, you will pay in one form or another. It matters not whether you are a Republican or Democrat they all do this. Just stand back and look at this thing objectively and you will see it.

One [former] politican from Missippi was very pro-life, pro-family yet it has now been revealed he has been involved in adultery. And he claimed to be a religious man! Were there any red flags at all before this became public knowledge? Now in hindsight I would have to say 'yes'. And what were they? During the last election in which this man ran, he operated a dirty campaign: mudslinging like you would not believe. (During election years I listen very little to radio so I did not hear this but others did and got sick of it and these were not Democrats.)

Now, what is a Christian to do since you know these things?

These are my thoughts on this issue...

ginnyrose

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TaylorOtwell Jul 21, 2009

Hi Friend,

The President protects the people by executing his office in a Constitutional manner. That is his sworn oath and duty.

Having the rich pay for health care forcibly is not just in light of Scripture. As far as I'm aware, God does not support the Robin Hood mentality. However, the rich giving generously to help the poor is encouraged and blessed. There is a large difference. Stealing from one person to help another is not just, and government has no business doing it.

With care in Christ,
Taylor

sermonindex Jul 22, 2009

He does not take an oath to protect the American people? I am pretty sure that the Constitution's purpose is to protect the American people.

If you check out info (or email the author of) stoptheamericanunion.com, you'll learn that some significant assumptions deriving from Constitutional 'rights' for citizens were changed or jeopardised by the previous President's quietly-signed amendments, ostensibly for the greater protection of the American people. But, in practice, my impression is that it would not feel like that to an American affected by the conditions which would trigger the enforcement of such amendments. I'm being deliberately vague because this is a political topic, and I'm not American. I follow your political changes from a growing distance, as it is clearer and clearer to me that unless we live, walk in and follow hard after the Holy Spirit's leading ~~[u]~~now[/u], we will find we have so been weaned on to electronic communications (and tagged by them), that we are not used to taking our directions from the voice of God. We have to practise hearing Him in the (relative) quietness now; for, when the airwaves are jammed will other voices, we will not be used to walking by faith. 1 Cor 14:10. I know this doesn't answer your question, but I hope a thought or two will linger in your mind.

sermonindex Jul 22, 2009

anonymity, I highly recommend Mark Levins book, "Liberty and Tyranny" This is an excellent read that address' some of your questions.

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anonymity Jul 22, 2009

Ginny,

Yeah, I have a very hard time trusting politicians and man in general. Not only do I have a problem with being suspicious, but I have a problem even finding much reason to believe them other then words and a smile most the time. It's a hard thing to study a person especially many and would be more then a full time job to figure out. I guess though as we grow as Christians our discernment strengthens as you mentioned with the mud slinging sign. Also, we might learn in part by their voting record or their "actions". I will say though that I tend to trust Huckabee and Palin. A lot of this time though it is not hard for bible believing Christians to tell who is a legit Christian since often the politicians throwing out a Christian label are aiming at the nominal Christians and very rarely do you see a politicians who holds strong Christian views.

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anonymity Jul 22, 2009

Taylor,

Well are there rules to how much the government can tax? Or I mean we function as a whole. For instance if one state suffers like with Katrina the other states help out. So also if one person suffers then the others help. I do believe that much stronger restrictions should be placed on those who receive welfare and what not to sift the true from the false. Or think of the early Church who held all things in common. I'm not fully advocating equality, but I am asking is it not just to take care of the poor is this not a law. It was written in Leviticus to do so not as a free will but a command. Or I have heard it said why take from the rich who work for it and give to the lazy poor. But, are there not rich who have gotten there unjustly and also just sit luxuriously on the money and never give and poor who labor continuously and get nowhere. Even many will say of homeless people they are there because they want to be, but many are there because of mental or health or other problems. Will we as Christians be found less merciful, compassionate, and understanding then liberals?

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anonymity Jul 22, 2009

AlivetoGod,

so I think you are referencing the NWO things and a change in the lack of liberties being a move toward it and in order to understand that this is going on we have to hear from God. Is this what you are saying?

One thought I do have with changes in government even some amendments to how things were in the past is that we are living in many ways a different world then we were back then. We have so many metropolitan areas and higher populations ect and so greater measures have to be taken to secure things. It is not like there are just some small towns and pistols. There are now bombs and toxic chemicals and our enemies live within our borders it is not like we live in gated kingdoms. Think of how easy it is for a man to place a bomb anonymously in some densely populated events, or think of how easy it is for human traffickers to abduct sex slaves into their basements, or a number of things. I am not saying to take all our liberty away, but I also think there are reasonable advances that need to be undertook. Bigger government and internationalization does not mean necessarily that it is the anti Christ this can also be a natural thing that man seeks to undertake within rational boundaries.

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anonymity Jul 22, 2009

Thingsabove,

yes I think I have heard Levin on the radio before and really liked a lot that he had to say. I will also say in light of that that I think many republicans, constitutionalists, or libertarians to have extremes just like many theological parties do and am trying to sift between them in what is right and what is extreme.

sermonindex Jul 22, 2009

Glad to hear it. Now will you read his book? And if and when you do please pm me and let me know what you think of the information in the book. Thanks, John

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all4Christ Jul 22, 2009

Alive-to-God wrote:
He does not take an oath to protect the American people? I am pretty sure that the Constitution's purpose is to protect the American people.
The Constitution was suspended in 1933. Have you ever watched Aaron Russo's ~~[i]~~America - Freedom to Fascism[/i]? I would highly reccomend it as well as any info from www.hopeforamerica.info
Hope for America Ministries
P.O. Box 11960
Costa Mesa, CA 92627
1-800-959-1991
and www.warnthepeople.org.

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anonymity Jul 22, 2009

Thingsabove,

I probably wont read something as extensive as a book nor do I think I want to pay for it. I have studied somewhat of a good amount already. I just had a couple specific questions as I have posted. If there is an article or something for free I may check it out.

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anonymity Jul 22, 2009

AllforChrist,

Yeah I've seen it.

sermonindex Jul 22, 2009

"extensive as a book",....Do you know how that sounds? Also I am sure you can borrow it from a friend or get it at a library.

Anyhow, if we read the Declaration of Independence, The Constitution, And go to the library and read the Federalists papers this will be sufficient to give all of us a strong understanding of the original intent of the founders.

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anonymity Jul 23, 2009

Thingsabove,

In saying extensive as a book it was in context to I have already studied somewhat well on the subject and only had a few specific questions. Not to say that books are so extensive in and of themselves but that I didn't want to read some "as" extensive as a book do to motivational factors.

As for the library thing that is a good idea I didn't think of that and actually may check it out since I was in one today and will soon be again and let you know if so.