Doctrines of God or doctrines of man?

H

Heydave Aug 9, 2009

.....Is it really the doctrine of God you stand for or man's?

I have been considering recently what really constitutes true doctrine and what is a doctrine of God and what isn't. Now I know I may tread on some toes and I may well get misunderstood by some, but let me put out my thoughts and see what you all think. Think being the operative word here!

The word 'doctrine' as translated in our English bibles means exactly the same as 'teaching'. Mostly 'doctrine' is used where teaching is the substance. i.e THE TEACHING, where as the word 'teaching' is used to indicate the act of teaching. However the point is it is the same root word in the greek and so where it says in Titus 2 v 1 '..speak the things which are proper for sound doctrine', it could say ' ..speak the things which are proper for sound teaching'.
In fact the word 'doctor' comes from the same root word as doctrine and therefore a doctor originally meant 'teacher', which is intersting. This shows how words get changed as we do not consider doctors as teachers today. But a doctor of theology is a teacher of theology.

So what does it matter. well the word 'doctrine' is not a word commonly used today outside of religious circles. Therefore as soon as we hear or see the word 'doctrine' we put our religious ears or glasses on and think it means OUR INTERPRETATION of God's doctrine. I'm deliberately distinguishing between what is 'the doctrine of God' and what is 'our interpretation of the doctrines of God'. Well you may say to me that your interpretation IS the doctrine of God! You better be careful here!

So what would I consider the doctrines of God? Well let's use the word the 'teaching of God' instead. What is clearly a 'teaching of God'? (Let me say I am assuming we are all coming from the opinion that the bible is the infallible word of God and the sole authority for faith and practice and we can discount in this discussion the liberals and those who do not adhere the the bible as God's truth completely). So the teachings of God would be those things CLEARLY TAUGHT in the bible. For example:
*Jesus is God and one with the Father.
*Salvation is only in Jesus Christ and no other.
*All men are sinners and guilty before God.
*All men are commanded to repent.
*Jesus will return to judge all men.
*We are commanded to walk in holiness and godliness.
These are just some example that we would all agree are clearly taught in scripture and so we can agree these are 'teachings (doctrines) of God. Of course we could name a lot more that this, but this is just to show what I mean.

Now what would be a teaching (doctrine) of man? I would say those things which are our interpretation of things not clearly taught in God's word, such as the examples above.

We could give the following examples:
* If or not it is possibly for a true believer to fall away to loss of salvation.
* When the rapture occurs.
* What type and style of clothing we should wear.
* Keeping the sabbath.
* Paying of Tithes.

I have only stated EXAMPLES of issues and not a position on these issues. We can (and I do) have a conviction on these things as to what the bible suggests is the correct interpretation, but I would say they CANNOT be proved to be doctrines of God. Otherwise why on these types of issues is there such polerised views between true and sincere believers. You could legitimately say you follow Calvin's or Wesley's teaching, but do not equate that to being the same as God's teaching. It may contain God's teaching, but is not infallible!

So in summary, what I am saying is that we need to be careful that we are not fighting for and defending our own or other's doctrines, thinking we are defending God's and end up doing what Jesus said to the Pharisees '...teaching as doctrines of God the commandments of men'.

OK so now I will put on my tin hat and wait for your response.:-)

H

hmmhmm Aug 9, 2009

I think you are right in much, many of the "hot" topics are "minors" in the word, take a subject as predestination or tongues for example, or the rapture, not saying these are of non importance, but seeing from my own experience how much energy and emphasis is laid upon these topics among believers, and then look in scripture and see what God and more important see what Jesus emphasized, we see it is totally out of proportion

Some will say there is much on some of these topics, and it is so seeing the letters etc, but we follow Christ, and when we study Christ and his life, and see what he put his time and energy on, we can meditate upon if that is what we are laying our time on, if not we can ask for grace to change.

I am more and more confident most of these topics and discussion will not be of "gold, silver, precious stones" in that day.

~~[i]~~'This is the gospel.' It is not some extra, detached, advanced teaching. It is not an 'ology'; that is 'Christ-ology', 'Church-ology', 'Theology', etc.; it is the gospel! It is all gathered into and based upon resurrection, beginning with Christ and expanding and advancing until all believers are in a state of immortal glory for all eternity.[/i] T.A Sparks

~~[url=http://www.austin-sparks.net/english/002164.html]~~source[/url]

H

Heydave Aug 9, 2009

Thanks for your reply hmmhmm.

When Jesus gave the great commision to His disciples in Matthew 28 He said 'Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations.....teaching them to observe all things I have COMMANDED you'.

So we could say that the teaching we should be giving are the things Jesus commanded us to obey and not the theory of the hows and whys.

The other point I considered is that if we use the phrase 'sound teaching', rather than sound doctrine, it might cause us to realise it is possible to receive sound teaching from someone who may have a different position to us on subjects that are debatable or questionable. Therefore I can accept sound teaching from some one from a Calvanistic position or an Armenean position if the essense of their teaching is Christ Centred and gives the clear teaching of God and not all about their particular view.

N

narrowpath Aug 9, 2009

If doctrine becomes an end in itself even true doctrine can lead to death. If doctrine is used to help me and others to resemble Christ than it is rightfully applied. If doctrine does not lead to life, it will lead to death. Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life. Separating way, truth and life from each other gets us into trouble.

2.Tim 16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Ultimately doctrine must be applied to express itself in good works, or it is taught in vain.

sermonindex Aug 10, 2009

Heydave posted:

~~[b]~~When Jesus gave the great commision to His disciples in Matthew 28 He said 'Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations.....teaching them to observe all things I have COMMANDED you'.
So we could say that the teaching we should be giving are the things Jesus commanded us to obey and not the theory of the hows and whys.

[/b]

Paul was quite clear in the fact that they (the early Church) had received the Doctrine given to them by God, through the power of the Holy Spirit

17. But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Paul was also clear that “his Doctrine” was to be preached:

2 Timothy 3:10 “10. But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, 11. Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. 12. Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14. But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; [color=990000]~~[b]~~ 15. And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17. That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.[/color][/b]

Here, Paul admonishes us to “Study the Word of God”, to study “Sound Doctrine”

2 Timothy 2:14-16
14. Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
[color=990000]15. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. [/color][/b]16. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. 17. And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18. Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19. Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20. But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21. If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
22. Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23. But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. 24. And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25. In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26. And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

[color=990000]~~[b]~~Of course, here we understand that Paul was referring to the Old Testament- all of it. The New Testament was still being written.

The entire Bible, both the Old and New Testament contains the Doctrine that we, as believers, are subject to. We are admonished to read it, to study it, and to make it a part of our life. In many Christian cults they only read the Gospels, and throw out the remainder of the New Testament. So, what they are doing is reading the history of the incarnation. How Christians are taught to apply that history can be found in the remaining Books of the New Testament, which they have no interest in pursuing.[/color][/b]

Sincerely,

Walter

H

Heydave Aug 10, 2009

Ultimately doctrine must be applied to express itself in good works, or it is taught in vain.

Amen, I agree, but I would go further to say all 'Teaching' should glorify Jesus Christ and produce a dependance upon Him for our righteousness and fritfulness (good works).

H

Heydave Aug 10, 2009

Waltern wrote:

The entire Bible, both the Old and New Testament contains the Doctrine that we, as believers, are subject to. We are admonished to read it, to study it, and to make it a part of our life. In many Christian cults they only read the Gospels, and throw out the remainder of the New Testament. So, what they are doing is reading the history of the incarnation. How Christians are taught to apply that history can be found in the remaining Books of the New Testament, which they have no interest in pursuing.

I appologise if I gave the impression that I was saying the above. I absolutely agree that the whole bible (all 66 books) is God's inspired word and is to be used for teaching, reproof, correction and training in righteousness.

What I am saying is that our view of Doctrine is far to narrow and it should be the whole council of God (as revealed in the whole bible). It is too narrow to the extent we think doctrine means our interpretation or theory of what is biblical truth. I think using the word 'Doctrine' rather than 'teaching' contributes to this.

Question: Why do we use the word 'doctrine' instead of 'teaching', when they mean the same thing? It gives a false impression that doctrine is something different and more important than teaching.

Ultimately we are talking about truth (the teaching of truth) and to quote AW Tozer:
"It was Christ who capitalized truth and revealed that it was not an "it" at all but a being with all the attributes of personality. "I am the Truth" He said, and followed truth straight to the cross. The truth seeker must follow Him there; and that is the reason few men seek truth."