Is this stealing?

Fact is, as far as I am concerned, the answer is yes. I know, I haven't told you anything yet, but, here goes.

A sister in the Lord, took some items from work without permission.

The items in total were less than a pound in money, but she still took them unknown to her employer.

I was devastated to hear this. She had never done anything like this in the 28 years she had been a Christian, so why now?

In a single word, poverty.

She tried to justify it, saying that they had no money, what were they supposed to do? That is, herself and her husband. He would be angry if he knew what she did, very much so.

I told her, what if she was found out, she could lose her job, and then where would they be?

I was so grieved by what she did, that I sent her some money. But I don't want to play God to her, finacially speaking that is.

Proverbs 30 tells us to ask of God neither poverty nor riches and it says in verse 9, 'lest I be poor and steal and profane the name of my God.

God help us to trust Him, and not the arm of flesh.

I don't know what I would do in her situation but could she need a friend that will help her build her faith? Faith to believe that God cares about those things that total less than a pound?

To be honest, I wonder if things get financially worse for us, if we won't sink to the same level.

Don't we fear God? Or is that only when things are going well?

My do we need His fear in us.

Enid,

You raised a good question[s]...

I am going to speak as an employer. We do hire part-timers and we also sell retail to the public, so we get to see a lot of people in the course of a year.

This summer we hired a Christian girl. She did her work well- at the beginning. I was pleased and told her so. As time went on, we discovered it was taking her too long. The work she said took her 19 hours takes me 4.5 hours. My DH talked to her about her cell phone use and told her to leave the phone in the car. At the end of the day she quit her job and told others she quit because she could not do it good enough for me. Well...!!! Not only did she steal time, she also lied. [Brother] James 2:10 informs us that if one offends in one point he is guilty of all. This I have noticed that when one sin becomes obvious, there are other sins lurking in the shadows. The one that has been exposed is a warning sign there are other problems there.

By the way, Titus 2:9-10 addresses this issue as well.

These are my thoughts concerning this problem...

Got an update on this lady?

ginnyrose

Here is a scripture that came to mind.

Pro 6:30 Men do not despise a thief, if he steal to satisfy his soul when he is hungry;
Pro 6:31 But if he be found, he shall restore sevenfold; he shall give all the substance of his house.

Well, Ginnyrose, you asked for an update, here it is.

She said she will replace the items she took, but it has to be without her employer knowing.

She took them without him knowing, so she has to return them in the same way.

By the way, what she took were two bin liners, and 3 tablets of soap to do her washing with.

I ask you, was it worth it? And yet, it is stealing, in my eyes anyway.

But worse still is her attitude, like, what were we supposed to do, and, she had no choice.

That was her inital attitude, but she seems to have softened in her stance.

The scripture refered to in Proverbs 30, refers to someone who steals to eat, not wash clothes!

Don't want to make light of it, because God is not light concerning sin, but there is a difference.

At least there is restitution being made.

But it is scary the levels Christians sink to when things get bad.

I fear for myself too in this. Supposing I fall into that trap. It can happen, but I pray it doesn't.

God bless.

Well, you can’t get more straightforward than “Thou Shalt Not Steal”! So, unless the employer has given his employees permission to take home for their personal use any supplies or materials they happen to find at work, than yes, it is stealing. Consider, for illustrative purposes, what if every employee took home the laundry soap, paper towels, toilet paper, pens, paper, etc. they needed? Obviously, the company does not intend to provide all these things to their employees.

Enid, I don’t believe you are “playing God” by sharing with her that she is sinning and grieving the Holy Spirit, but it is her responsibility to take what you tell her to God and ask Him to search her heart and confirm what you are telling her. The problem, as I see it, is that she only considering returning the items to appease you. She is not convicted of the Holy Spirit, because if she were listening to Him, I believe she would gladly not only confess what she has done to her employer, but return the items and delight in the glory it would bring to God. If there is nothing wrong with what she did, why can’t she just tell the employer? Surely he would understand….

I remember as a new Christian being convicted about things I “stolen” before I got saved. I went back to an employer from years past, and told him that I had used his Federal Express account to ship some personal items (Christmas presents to my family in another state). I told him that I was sorry, that I was now a Christian, realized it was wrong and returned the amount of money I had cost him. To my surprise, this non-Christian man knew exactly what I was talking about, and didn’t protest my restitution at all. There was no question in his mind that I had been wrong to use his account for my personal use and he hadn’t forgotten it either! (In my mind, though, had he not known about it, it would have been no less wrong!) I was able to give him my testimony as well. By the way, that’s just one example. I have experienced several other occurrences of having to make restitution, but I won’t bore you with those details! 

By returning the items without her employer’s knowledge, she is missing a tremendous opportunity to allow the Holy Spirit to bring glory to God by her repentance. This can be a powerful tool in His hand to bring about conviction to others. Zacchaeus , when he met the LORD, said, “Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.” When the Holy Sprit convicts, a person will only be concerned with getting right with God, no matter what it takes.

As Lisa pointed out, your friend seems to have a lack of faith in God’s ability to provide for her. This makes her actions understandable, but no less acceptable. In addition, she is also going against her husband’s wishes and hiding it from him as well. 1 John 1:6-7 points out, light reveals, darkness hides. We want to walk in the light, allowing Him to cleanse us from all unrighteousness!

Well, knowing her as I do, she won't go to her employer, she will just take them back, so that no one will be any wiser as to what took place.

Also, throughout the years, I have seen this sad characteristic of a thief in her.

For instance, she once came to my house years ago and took some pictures of my daughter, as a baby, without my knowing.
It wasn't until some years later, at her house, that looking through a photo album, I saw the pictures in there.

Why didn't she just ask? And I'm also thinking, she could have asked her employer and offered to replace the items as soon as possible. He would probably have laughed and told her not to bother to replace them, just take them. Then she could have them with a clear conscience.

As it is, her testimony is questionable at best.

But I won't go into that.

Thanks.

Why didn't she just ask?

This is an extremely important point. And you are so right: if she had only asked her employer it is no telling what he would have given her. (Of course, I am speaking as an employer - I do not know yours.)

So, she took some soap - why not give her a recipe where she can make her own? There are recipes on the web to make your own laundry soap and if you get desperate it can be used for whatever you want to clean. It may not be as nice as some others, but it works! and it is cheap! and you do not have to steal to get it.

This lady has a thief mentality? Perhaps that is the fault you need to address, the one you need to confront her about? knowing full well it is a symptom of a deeper problem.

Just my thoughts and wishing you well,
ginnyrose

On a similar note:
My church has just elected a new deacon who is regularily doing more than the allowed hours with his employer and receiving the extra in cash rather than putting it through the books. No-one else seems to think this is a big deal as he 'has to provide for his family' and 'he is willing to leave the job if God leads him to something else'

Is it just me or is that stealing (and lying)? :-( I believe completely that its wrong but so many others are so complacent about it it staggers me!

Undeclared earnings is wrong, but you would be surprised how much is 'overlooked' in the eyes of Christians when things like this happen.

Like someone working a job, but still claiming benefits.

It is both stealing and lying.

Where has integrity disappeared to?

We have to ask, do we still retain our integrity?
Job 2v9.

Is it just me

If in doubt, don't. Sometimes the reasons may not make sense at the time, but will later. I have always gotten in trouble for failing to listen to my doubts. And I suspect I might actually be a tad bit normal! :-o

ginnyrose

A true Christian isn't a thief. Pray for her, but also warn her you'll report any further theft.

We should all look deep and hard at the "little sins" in our lives

And little sins grow big into monsters and will consume its victims.

ginnyrose

Greetings krispy and ginnyrose

I have to agree with you, it is vital to our growth daily to search our hearts and ask Father to reveal those sins hidden there so that we might repent. Left to themselves this kind of sin is very much like a weed in a garden, if not dealt with it will eventually overtake the garden and choke off all life.

God bless you both,

maryjane

Right, Krispy! After all, it is often the "little foxes that destroy the vines."

A few years ago, I was riding in the car with some friends from Church. After the meeting, we went through a drive-through of a local hamburger restaurant. The guy paid for everyone's meals. The girl at the window gave us our meals and gave the driver his change. As we drove away, this guy realized that the girl had given him too much change. His reaction? "[i]Wow -- I have extra money! Look how God blessed me[/i]!"

Needless to say, I was shocked. I tried to talk this guy into returning the money, but he was "sure" that God had "blessed him."

:-(

but he was "sure" that God had "blessed him.

The god of this world, eh?

Why is it that when money versus morals, that money always wins? Or so it would seem.

Psalm 139v23, "Search me, O God, and know my heart..."

If we were to ask that of God, we should really expect a truly fearful time, if we understand what the psalmist means.

Again in the same psalm it says in verse 7, "Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from your presence?

Where? Where indeed can we go from God?

Take time out to read Psalm 139, then maybe we might just grasp a glimpse of God's awesomness and realise that there is no hiding place from Him.

Do you still retain your integrity?