reading non Chrisitan books?

Hey
I found myself in the middle of a discussion about a few books last night and I was hoping to hear some thoughts from some who frequent here. We were talking about the Harry Potter books and how they are not really beneficial for Christians to be reading. Some in the group disagreed. The topic then got brought up about other books, such as Hamlet, Macbeth, King Aurther and the knights of the round table, Lord of the Rings all deal with magic to some degree or have magic in them. Should Christians be avoiding these books to? I have read some of these books for school and really didn't think about it at the time, but last night I did not have an answer?

Just wondering
rdg

Hey,
I agree that we shopuld be careful what we read as Christians. What we read influences how we see things. I think the books you mentioned though, Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings are good books. They clearly define evil and good and there is very strong Christian imagery and message in both regardless of whether it was intentional. They open people to the concept of Lordship in a spiritual sense, a spiritual battle, a need to choose carefully which side you are on, rely on the strength of the "lord" whose side you choose. Dumbledore or Voldemort in Harry Potter; Gandalf or Sauron in Lord of the Rings. The need to persevere, take action, fight the good fight to deliver all those unaware of what is going on in their world. There is inevitably a sacrifice to be paid, Harry Potter has to die, So does Gandalf ( although he comes back much like aslan in narnia), Frodo must undertake a terrible journey into the darkest place carrying the weight of evil around his neck in the form of a ring. He must choose not to love his own life but give it up and struggle tired as he is up mount doom (mount calvary?) into the enemies hands to destroy it forever. Sound familiar?
I think that discernment is needed. Much non christian literature is strongly Christian, though obviously not all. Some books that do harm are " christian" eg "the shack" ( no offence to people who liked it, i didn't agree with its view of God and found it dangerous).
A.J

Hey A.J
thank for sharing your thoughts here. I am seeing more every day that I need to be very watchful of what I put before my eyes. Few years ago I would not have thought about some of these books as being dangerous, now I am seeing things differently.
Anyway thanks for responding.

with care
rdg

I think that discernment is needed. Much non christian literature is strongly Christian, though obviously not all. Some books that do harm are " christian" eg "the shack" ( no offence to people who liked it, i didn't agree with its view of God and found it dangerous). A.J

I couldn't agree more. Discernment is important and it comes through the leading of the Holy Spirit and the reading of God's word, the Bible. As long as we remain steeped in God's word, the reading of fiction can be enjoyable and potentially harmful content can easily be recognized and classified as such.

Discernment is EVEN more important in reading material called "Christian literature" because here there is a danger of swallowing false teaching hook, line, and sinker through misplaced trust in the "Christian" label. Being steeped in God's word is critical to avoid pitfalls here.

I share your view of "The Shack" which many consider a Christian book -- I consider it blasphemous and dangerous. Any author, no matter how well-intended, who attempts to capture the character(s) of God in a work of fiction, and who brazenly identifies these characters openly as "God the Father", "God the Son", and "God the Holy Spirit" is not only bound to fail, but also bound to mislead others in their understanding of almighty God. Its is a dangerous work that is disrespectful of the majesty of God.

This book is immensely popular, and I am not surprised, for scripture says that the world will love its own (Jn 15:18-19).

littlmermaid said: "I think the books you mentioned though, Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings are good books. They clearly define evil and good and there is very strong Christian imagery and message in both regardless of whether it was intentional."

This is very dangerous reasoning. There is no clear definition of good/evil. The So called good ones practice witchcraft, too.

The Shack, is another trap. Anything that will change your perception of God is not anything to to play or toy with.

The links below may help you understand the danger.

Harry Potter? What Does God Have To Say?
http://www.lasttrumpetministries.org/tracts/tract7.html

A Former Witch Looks At The Lord Of The Rings
http://www.lasttrumpetministries.org/tracts/tract11.html

HALLOWEEN AND THE OCCULT (A True Story)
http://www.lasttrumpetministries.org/tracts/tract_2.html

Halloween and the Forces of Darkness
http://www.lasttrumpetministries.org/tracts/tract10.html

Occult
http://www.gregoryreid.com/id192.htm

The Dark Night of the Shack: A Parable of Illusions
http://www.gregoryreid.com/id202.htm

On a personal note, several years ago I was still reading fantasy novels that included dragons and mystical powers. I burned all of those books and asked God's forgiveness for having been enamored of them.

Kind regards,
white stone

Amen, Janice!

I have a question: with many good books out there, why choose to read books that use devilish imagery? those that raise doubts as to whether they should be read?

One cannot be careful enough about what books are safe to read. For example, I loved the "Anne of Green Gables" series. The author L. M. Montgomery also wrote the "Emily" series. These books are trash! I read one or two and was thoroughly disappointed, no maybe almost angry. Just because they are old books, written in the early 1900s does not guarantee that they are edifying. Harold Bell Wright was a prolific writer but I do not like his either - they will kill their enemies and feel good about it.

(EDIT: Maybe I am spoiled? I grew up reading Danny Orlis books by Bernard Palmer.)

So, what are good books? Good question....I would guess it may take time and lots of reading to determine what writers are to be trusted.

Blessings,
ginnyrose

Perhaps this suggestion avoids a hard-and-fast answer to the original question, but I try to ask whether I am confident that reading or watching a particular thing will directly benefit Christ and His Church. That cuts out almost everything questionable.

If I were a pastor and had to respond directly to the arguments of a vain philosopher, or write a detailed critique of a popular work of fiction, I might be persuaded to read those books.

Generally, there's something more obviously edifying and beneficial to read, watch, or do... so why should I be bothering with lesser things?

Hey
I kinda feel like I should come back and clarify something. I do not nor have I ever read any of the Harry Potter books. I have a relative and some friends who like to give me a hard time about this and the other night we got into a discussion on this topic and someone mentioned that when I was in school I read Hamlet, Macbeth, and the tales of King Aurther(these were required reading for me at the time in my literature class) They brought up the fact that these books all deal with magic just like Harry Potter does so what what he difference. At the time I guess I felt a bit ganged up on and I did not really have an answer to them in what the difference was. I posted thinking that I was looking for an answer about why one of these books is better then the others but have since prayed about it and realize that my answer is simply this, I don't read any of these books now because they do all deal with things that I feel the Lord leading me to have no part in:-)

Any way just wanted to clear things up and thanks for all the great replies.

with care
rdg

Hi rdg!

I found myself in the middle of a discussion about a few books last night and I was hoping to hear some thoughts from some who frequent here. We were talking about the Harry Potter books and how they are not really beneficial for Christians to be reading.

I am not really a frequent here, but couldn't pass on this question you asked!
In general we know that God hates magic. Simply because excercising any powers not from God can never lead to God (if it would God would love magic).

How come we can be entertained by that which God hates? When I married (yes, for the ppl who still remember me.. I'm married now :-P), we decided to not have anything in this house which is against God. But to my shame we did start to compromise here and there and had to "clean out" dvd's and games again.

Acts 19:19 "19 And not a few of them that practised magical arts brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all; and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver."

I wonder, would those guys have burned Harry Potter? :-)

Hmmm,
I think it's a matter of personal conscience. I personally genuinely believe Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter to be good and find especially Lotr very edifying spiritually.
Thanks for the links. Half of my degree was philosophy in literature so i guess to me the most important thing in weighing a book or film is it's message or its messages. I would like to write teen fiction one day. Personally I wouldn't use magic as a story telling means as I agree it should be completely avoided. C.S. Lewis however thought otherwise and I wouldn't condemn any of the Narnia books because he has used magical wardrobes, magic rings and mythological creatures.I think they are good not because they are entertaining- that's neither here nor there morally- but because the key messages of Narnia (and Lotr) illustrate the Christian message.
I am from an occult background myself and recognize the message of paganism and "magic". It's there in Phillip Pullmans books, it's there in the huge selection of vampire stuff targeted at teenagers, It's strong in Paulo Coelho s popular books ( lots of christians tend to like "the alchemist", which is pure evil in disguise although containing no use of magic i can recall). I try to read what my peers read in order to be able to discuss it when needed, not that I think everyone should do that. But back to the point, i sense no pagan message in Lotr, or Narnia. Harry Potter i thought was fine, probably because the author has no background or interest in the occult and all of the "magic" in it is just story telling device not pagan philosophy.
I'm not trying to say that anyone who doesn't feel right about Harry Potter or Lotr or Narnia that they should change their mind and read them. I think that it's up to individual conscience. And if someone's conscience says no then they shouldn't read them. And I do appreciate people may want to change my mind as I understand what it's like to try to convince people that things are wrong and damaging. I spend enough time telling people to avoid things myself; James Bond films (terrible role model), Friends ( teenage girls 60% more likely to get pregnant apparently if they watch it),Skins (pure, pure evil, this made me very upset and all the british teens are watching it, if you are a parent please watch an episode, someone should be petitioning for it to go off the air). But although i respect your position, i find it's whats inside a story that can harm not the outside shell.
If someone said that everything that has magic in it should be banned then we wouldn't have the precious word of God itself. A.J.

littlmermaid says,

If someone said that everything that has magic in it should be banned then we wouldn't have the precious word of God itself. A.J.

There is just so much wrong and dangerous in your statement. To equate the power and majesty of Almighty God the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit with magic is just plain wrong. I reject the very thought. God have mercy on your soul. You are swimming with sharks. You have been desensitized to the witchcraft in those books that you believe there is good there. There can be no compromise with God and witchcraft.

ws

Hey A.J.

Your wrote:if someone said that everything that has magic in it should be banned then we wouldn't have the precious word of God itself. A.J.
_______

What exactly do you mean by this statement? Are you some how trying to compare the the magic of Harry Potter and other works to Gods power and Holiness? Just looking for some clarification.

Thanks
rdg

How come we can be entertained by that which God hates?

Reminds me of Romans 1:32. This is serious (edit) and not a matter of just personal conviction.

ginnyrose

rainydaygirl wrote:
Hey
I found myself in the middle of a discussion about a few books last night and I was hoping to hear some thoughts from some who frequent here. We were talking about the Harry Potter books and how they are not really beneficial for Christians to be reading. Some in the group disagreed. The topic then got brought up about other books, such as Hamlet, Macbeth, King Aurther and the knights of the round table, Lord of the Rings all deal with magic to some degree or have magic in them. Should Christians be avoiding these books to? I have read some of these books for school and really didn't think about it at the time, but last night I did not have an answer?

Just wondering
rdg

Speaking for myself, I find so many of these discussions can be made much simpler. With everything in life you just do two things. First, check whether you are rightly oriented toward the Lord. Second, then check in with the topic.

So first, do you understand what it means to love Christ? Do you understand holiness? Have you meditated on eternity? Do you know why God called you, or has God called you? Are you a child of God and is he your Father?

Then second, if your spirit is right with the only thing that really matters, just decide first you are going to be totally honest. Really honest. This may take some time to clear away some reasonings and justifications in your mind. Start talking out loud to God and yourself about why you want to read this book. Try it with the Bible. Try it with another book. Do it with everything you read. Just tell the Lord and yourself out loud why you want to read the book. When you have thoroughly explained why, if you can then read the book with a clear conscience, go ahead.

It's that simple!

We read the news, on line or in print, or we watch television or movies.

Exactly who is this "we"? It surely does not include everyone. I think it is foolhardy to jump into shark infested waters and then wonder why you emerge wounded and bloody if even alive.

We often need our feet washed as we tread on sullied ground, now and then.

There is grace for mistakes, weakness, yielding against our better judgment, etc. but a habit or returning to "treading on sullied ground" is proof we do not know anything of holiness or the Lord.

who said anything about equating the Bible and Harry Potter?? I only mentioned that the Bible also contains "magic" in that it has stories about it. Therefore if every mention of magic regardless of whether it promotes it or not automatically should mean it can't be read then we wouldn't be able to read it. I was referring to the event of Saul consulting the spirit of Samuel (1 Samuel 28). Although there's a fair amount of other references to pagan practices also in the Old Testament.I just assumed everyone on here would be familiar with the Bible but I should have clarified what I meant, sorry.No I am not saying that it is ok to do it. Its clear that the practice of witchcraft of any form is "detestable". I am making the point that the issue is not whether witchcraft or any other wrong activity is mentioned or a part of the story but how is it portrayed and does it promote such activites? The philosophy and intent of the writer and the impact on the reader should be taken into account as they are the most important things.

J. K rowling is not nor ever has been pagan and her philosophy and message aren't either. I wonder why no one went out burning Pullmans childrens books when he said he wrote them with the sole aim of convincing children there is no God. Why so much fuss about Rowling when she has no such intentions. It just seems like people react to external things but ignore things of the heart.

Rowling isnt responsible for the decline of the church. I doubt she has contributed anything to it. Shallow and unempowered christianity is what makes people turn away. When I went to america I met so many people who knew the gospel but didn't seem to care. But when they explained to me how they saw Christian life ( "don't swear or drink and thats it") its understandable - almost.

I'm looking at it from a British perspective in that here most people laugh at any kind of belief in a spiritual world. I do not think she presents paganism but she does simply make people think there might be more than meets the eye, a spiritual battle, a side to choose, a Lord to follow. I've had some great conversations with atheists who have read her books and found it provided amazing parallels to the Christian message. So here it kind of prepares the ground for a general spiritual interest. Whoever then sows into that is the important thing.
I accept that it may be different in the US as many people are raised in a church. However I think a good response would be to understand Harry Potter and relate it to the gospel.
I went on a course recently on the book of Revelation in the Bible. The guy, Ian Paul who has written a study book on it who seems biblically sound, trains pastors and did his phd in Revelation said that a fair bit of Revelation is based on occultic practices at the time of the first century. For example " Iam the alpha and the Omega" and "who holds the keys to death and Hades" and some other stuff. He said that Jesus "plunders" all that is seen and held as powerful and claims it for Himself. As if to say it's not Caesar who is the "alpha and Omega" it's me and so on with all the other references to Apollo and Caesar.
I found it interesting. I would use this attitude in regards to some things. Like Paul with the "altar to an unknown god". To use the things people understand to show that Christ's power is more than those things.
But i'm probably going to cause more contoversy now... AJ

Hey AJ
No controversy, I don't agree with much of what you have written but no controversy.

have a wonderful weekend
rdg