What do you think about this word about the end times?

I would likke to comment on that video. I have been going to IHOP for six months now. Many of you on this site know where I am coming from. I can only say that time and time again I have been blessed there. Mike Bickle actually does not preach all that often, but every time he has, I have been greatly blessed. And I am sure many out there know of past associations and things that would give them pause to stop and think, and I would agree about the stoping and the pausing and the thinking, yet I can only report what I have saw and heard over a six month period. Amangst that particulary group, I have to say that they are among the most aware of the present day state, the lateness of the hour and the neccesity of not doing "business as usual." This particular video I found to be a blessing and a witness in my spirit.......Frank

White_STONE,

You have lived a very sheltered life if you think that was theatrics :) LOL Many of the featured sermons on this site has way more theatrics :) I do think that many men have genuine passion and its not theatrical, Keith Daniel's would be one such preacher. Ian Paisley would be another, there are too many to mention.
Yes, the man in this video was theatrical.......Frank

"What do you think about this word about the end times?"...anonymity

I have an association with Mike Bickle also; and was a part of the prayer movement there, and lived there also, in the early 90's. I shared this with Mike, in a limited way, but clearly a few years ago.

I trust Mike as a man of integrity, but do not agree with many of his monastic creations. I do believe, however, that he has a revelatory and apostolic calling yet to be lived in his life.

This is what I think is coming. Mike saw a part of it. as I did.

Justice and Glory

by Thomas Watkins

If this were my very last article that I ever wrote, or last encouragement, or warning, before my death, this would be it. It is the most valuable thing that I have to give, to serve the body of Christ. We must be prepared for the holocaust that is riding these winds of judgment, and realize that this is from the Lord Jesus. We are waking up, even those of us who love slumber.

Over many years, the Lord has given me several interlocking revelations about His church in America. One important piece of that is THE END OF THE AMERICAN DREAM! The Lord spoke that phrase, and revealed to me it would center around a “greed mortgage craze”, and there would be massive homelessness from the middle class, and riot like anger within the black and minority community. This was in 2003. A HOLY COMPANY WOULD THEN APPEAR. HERE:

http://pjmiller.wordpress.com/2009/01/03/guest-author-the-end-of-the-american-dream/

But this is only a small portion of what we can expect to come, both in Glory, and in Judgment.

The end of the American dream is about the holiest company ever assembled in this country, emerging within the greatest financial judgment ever to be in this country. There are two types of judgment. One has Mercy mixed in with it; a type of discipline that gives way to the possibility of repentance, of turning back to God’s way, away from our own, and being restored, healed by our tender Father. Most of judgment is in this vein, because the Father is most merciful and gracious, and desires all to come to Him. He takes no pleasure in the death and destruction of the wicked. This financial judgment has mercy mixed in it, and God is leaving space for the Church, and America to repent, and believe.

The other type of judgment is a judgment when all mercies are depleted.

This is called Wrath. Consider Jeremiah’s many, many, ignored pleadings with Jerusalem, and then one of them was his last; for the Babylonian warriors broke through the wall and proceeded to rape, murder and plunder; and not even sparing the toddlers and infants. It was a holocaust; a horror beyond thought; but it was real. One could argue that America was once the cradle of the FREE church of our Lord, maybe foremost in all of the Earth…in the days of her youth. If we have not become the “Great Whore who sits upon many waters”, I assure you that we are a part of her.

We despise Jesus, we mock Him, and MOST of our churches have a mere form of Christianity, but reject the power to become agents of His love and mercy. We are enamored with our own happiness, and promote our wills and lives. God has turned her over to the wolves. “The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?”

The Lord is defining Apostasy here. This is the “what” and “how” of why People fall away. God’s people have fell in love with their own lives. God has become an inconvenience, a burden, a slave master; and they will resist bending to Him or ANYONE, over their dead bodies. THE ONLY MINISTERS THAT THEY ACCEPT ARE THE ONES THAT SPEAK OF PEACE AND PROSPERITY! We are seeing a flood of sorcerers and magicians and Usurpers that would be unimaginable 10 years ago; and our “Main Line” churches too! A form of godliness wrapped in dead form; Void of the Spirit, yet glorying in doctrine and political correctness.This is why America as a country is being judged. “If the salt has lost it’s saltiness, WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR?” “TO BE CAST UPON THE DUNGHILL!”

That’s wrath; utter rejection derived from utter rebellion. In 2001, I was caught up in the Spirit with the Lord. It was a though I was traveling around the Earth with Jahweh; sailing high above, and watching the continents below. There were no rivers, cities, or wilderness; only a massive wheat field. The sun was shining, the wheat shimmered in a gentle wind. The wheat was mature and golden; the sky was a Robin’s egg blue. It completely covered every bit of surface on these continents; the inhabited ones. Out of the substance of the Earth and the Sun and the Wheat the Lord Spoke; “IT’S HARVEST TIME!”... the vision ended.

For years I had misconceptions of the harvest as being a time of worldwide sweeping revival. I now know that it is not. The Harvest is the “End of the AGE!” The Harvest is the time of exposure, of light revealing and separating the darkness. The Harvest is a time of separation; a time when the evil look alike wheat is exposed for what it really is. POISON!

Matthew 13; verses: 24Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25″But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went away. 26″But when the wheat sprouted and bore grain, then the tares became evident also. 27″The slaves of the landowner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28″And he said to them, ‘An enemy has done this!’ The slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?’ 29″But he said, ‘No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30′Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn.”

Remember this; “and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the HARVEST IS THE END OF THE AGE!”; and the reapers are angels.”..vs:39

WE ARE SOON TO ENTER TRIBULATION. We are now experiencing the very beginning of the birth Pains of it. I will now share a very troubling set of visions that I was given, about the wrath part. I was shown the INVASION of AMERICA by foreign armies. In the first vision, I was in the Spirit, and was peering through the reeds, on a bluff above the ocean, on American Soil.

I heard a terrifying thunder of a massive and numerous army marching. I heard the cadence of boots marching in step, so many that the earth shook. I trembled, yet I watched on. Out of the ocean, close to my hiding spot in the reeds, a foreign army arose right out of the sea. These were foot soldiers, dressed in the camouflage stripes of another nation. They all had back packs, and assault weapons, but were staged to fight light, and mobile. They were terrifying in their sheer numbers and power.

A voice spoke to me over my right shoulder; a voice that I know. It was the voice of God, the Lord Jesus. He just said; “20 million.” I understood that this was the number of the invading army. I understood that they were an occupying and an invading army; and there goal was to blitzkrieg to the heart of the cities in overwhelming numbers, and once there, they would be impregnable. Once inside of a city, with perhaps 500,000 men, we would be helpless. This would of course be a sneak attack; and would happen suddenly.

The corresponding vision I had several years before, was about an AIR WAR, on American soil, for AIR superiority before the main body is set to advance. This was near the exact area that I saw the armies rise. I saw a bombing war, with multitudes of attack planes. I saw the enemy with waves and waves ; and when we think we have a chance, another and another wave of fighters and bombers dive in. I watched this war for a very, very long time, and as I saw it continue, I watched a very small object spinning out of the war, towards me. It was a tree, and as it approached me, it became larger and larger until I saw that it was a tree sent from God. It was covered perfectly in most beautiful leaves; It was, “The tree for healing for all nations” spoken of in the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

It is maturity in the Church. It is Jesus Himself alive in this end times Church, right here in America. The day is coming, when we will no longer be impotent, and lackadaisical. Healing, and power over all of the work of the enemy will be deeds that are commonplace, and it will be the day of instant fruit the Amos prophesied of, when the treader of grapes would be overcome by he who sows the seed. It will be the fullness of Jesus in His bride; It will be the Overcoming church; the Remnant Bride that has endured to the end, that loved Jesus more than her own way, her own life.

The very sad thing about this, is imminent judgment that must come. I believe that prior to this invasion we will be nuked, along with every military base in the world, and every nuclear ship, and missile base. I believe that this will primarily occur on the East coast, and some cities in the west. The Midwest will be left for food production. I was not shown this by the Lord; this is my own judgment, but I believe that this horror will leave 100 MILLION Americans dead before the end….TWO FOR ONE, FOR EVERY INNOCENT LIFE MURDERED THROUGH ABORTION! This is Wrath on the unrepentant. I saw this invasion take place on the TEXAS COASTLINE and New Orleans area, on the same path as KATRINA.

It will be a time of horror, hand in hand with the Glory of the ages.

This is me; I was not shown this by the Lord, but I believe when this happens, we will be very close to the MIDDLE of this Great Tribulation. There will be 42 months, at least, to go. Jesus will rescue Israel, and the believers in all of the world then. We will then begin our eternity, as will the many damned, who hate God and his Christ.

I want to give you some signs upon the way, that the Lord has shown me.

I saw the company of real messengers, Apostles, that the Lord has ordained for America. They are broken and filled with holiness, and possessed with more authority that man could imagine. They hate the usurpers, nicolaitans, and false apostles like the NAR and such, and will lay their lives down for the least of the brethren, whoever that those may be. They are filled with humility and love.

One of the signs that they have manifested is when we see, “AN AMERICAN BAND OF MARTYRS”…These will be saints that will go in the face of death and martyrdom to carry the gospel to foreign shores. They will be butchered, and slaughtered, but behind them many more will follow, and this will be a pleasing aroma before the Lord. When you see and read of this, then you will know that real Godly apostles are here too, to shepherd the American flock through this tribulation and unto Jesus alone.

The second sign will be harder to perceive, but just as real.

We will begin to see saints that we would consider dead, destroyed and fallen away, restored. Many of them will have been wounded in the current WAR in the church, between an emerging humanist-new age gospel and “apostle” mindset that denies the CROSS, both as Jesus as the only way to God, and the cross that the individual MUST bear DAILY, as he dies to himself, to lives to God, and learns how to love. People that you would not imagine, will return to the Love of Jesus, and become a blaze for God. It will be amazing, similar to Ezekiel’s “DRY BONES” vision…right here, in America.

There are TEN Virgins: All wake up, but all don’t survive. What is the keystone for the survivors?, and what did the victims of blindness lack? Oil for the lamps. It is the Holy Spirit flowing in relationship with He who stands among the candlesticks. Everyone assumed they possessed it, but really only some did. This is the most important possession in your entire life, even for Eternity. Do you fellowship with Jesus? Do you know Him? Do you worship Him, in Spirit and in truth, or do you just have an idea of that, or a form of that? Only one thing we will possess in this soon coming trouble is FAITH, a quiet assurance that we know Him who we have rested our soul upon.

Hebrews 11 33 who by faith conquered kingdoms, performed acts of righteousness, obtained promises, shut the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, from weakness were made strong, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight. 35 Women received back their dead by resurrection; and others were tortured, not accepting their release, so that they might obtain a better resurrection; 36 and others experienced mockings and scourgings, yes, also chains and imprisonment. 37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were tempted, they were)put to death with the sword; they went about in sheepskins, in goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, ill-treated 38 (men of whom the world was not worthy), wandering in deserts and mountains and caves and holes in the ground. 39 And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40 because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.

This was not written apart from us, even today, and it is more than a historical encouragement, it is a code, a living testament about how true saints will react to extreme hardship and persecution. Do not be deceived into thinking that a farm in Idaho or a large storehouse will succor you in this time. It will not, and you will be very disappointed. As then, as now, Only a living faith in Jesus, sustained by daily bread, will enable you to endure unto the end; and the end for some of us will surely be martyrdom.

I see the church as a resurrected remnant; a little flock. I see her in twos and threes, where glory falls as well in many, many home churches and personal groups where real relationship will and is able to be cultured. We are now yet in a time of grace where we all can repent, and return to our first loves; where we can determine a life “All for Jesus, No matter the COST!…We have space, but I promise you as I warn you; THE DOOR IS CLOSING!

Also, there is yet space where we can pray for America. Will she repent? Probably not, but Abraham wasn’t slowed up for SODOM, before the Lord with that probability, was he? It is possible that the number of that occupying force and army may be diminished, but not without repentance. Remember Nineveh.

We will need each other much more in the future, and Jesus most of all.

We will seek him continually in these times of trouble, and it is written; “The Lord has NEVER forsaken ANY who seek after Him.” This is the difference in having oil for your lamps, and being left without it, in the most dire of nights. Jesus is Lord and Creator, and Satan, and every one of his devil angels that followed him, are nothing, and less than nothing before His glorious power. They are together less than a drop falling into a cavernous 55 gallon drum, and united less than a match head of chaff, in a forest fire. Jesus is but using the devil, and anti-Christ, to prove his purposes, and His faithful, and His Faithfulness. when Jesus is done using him, he will be cast headlong into the lake of fire, where he will burn for eternity, along with his brother angels….[ AND ALL OF THE HUMAN LOST..] We are also a part of this trial, that will encompass the entire earth. We overcome by faith.

“BY THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB, THE WORD OF OUR TESTIMONY, AND BY NOT LOVING OUR OWN SELF LIVES, EVEN UNTO DEATH!”

John said, in Revelation, “Your brother, in tribulation and patience.” That’s how it has to be.

* brother Tom Watkins

I am totally persuaded by Pastor Mike Bickle 's teaching

That's a dangerous place to be.

Me, I am totally persuaded by the [b]Word of God[/b], not some dude.

Years ago when I first arrived at this forum we discussed "teachers" like Bickle, IHOP, MorningStar, Rick Joyner, The Latter Rain Movement, Manifest Sons of God doctrine, Bob Jones (the so-called prophet, not the college), etc etc.

Many of us showed them to be the false teachers that they are... using their own words and comparing them to the teachings of the Word of God.

They are not prophets, especially Bob Jones... who I was personally "prophecied" over when I was deceived and into all of that junk.

I'll not sit in judgement of their salvation, but I will certainly weigh their teachings and so-called prophecies against the Word of God.

They have been weighed and shown to be lacking.

Whenever I hear ANYONE say "I am totally persuaded by so-and-so's teaching" I just cringe!!

[b]NO NO NO!![/b] Be fully convinced of the teachings of the Bible! Not some dude!

Wake up!

Krispy

The first time I ever heard a teaching by Mike Bickle, the Holy Spirit bore witness with my spirit.

Interject the name "Joseph Smith" into that sentence and this is [b]exactly[/b] what the Mormons say.

And by the way, brother, I have studied Bickle's teaching... I used to be a student of his teachings, and Joyner, etc. We used to belong to a Morning Star associated church. I've met Bickle and sat under his teachings.

You say: "just because Mike Bickle has associated himself with certain men that are questionable does not make him a false prophet."

I say: Who is lacking in discernment?

You say: "I have seen these accusations made repeatedly by certain individuals who lack discernment and are in league with the accuser of the brethren."

I say: thats a cheap way to shut up anyone who you disagree with. Call them names, accuse them of lacking discernment, and call them satanic.

Instead of debating the issues, doctrines, whatever... you simply call people names.

Way to go.

Notice I called Bickle a false teacher, which sincerely believe him to be. I did not call him names, did not question his salvation. Did not call his followers names.

Unlike you... who generalized anyone who may disagree with you, called them names, said they were in league with Satan (i.e. judged their very salvation), etc.

That's just wrong and [b]sinful[/b] on so many different levels.

Krispy

I agree... unfortunately I do not have time today to go into it all. It has been discussed previously to the point of nausia on this forum and is available for all to research. I recommend people avail themselves of all that has been discussed simply by searching.

My main point here tho is that people who support their favorite minister/prophet can not handle any criticism of their hero. When doctrines or prophecies are questioned... instead of honest discussions about it... they turn to name calling, judgmentalism and bating.

This ought not to be.

Krispy

We should never debate with flame throwers. There is a sickness in todays modern society and it is tearing the fabric of it apart, led by well known pundits who enrich themselves by trading in hatred. A large part of the professing Christian movement have been swept up in it because it appeals to their philosophy. We then find that they debate their "brothers," with the same venom of their favorite pundits that they watch for endless hours. So, putting all that aside, I agree that any time you are dealing with anyone who calls themselves a prophet, extreme caution should be applied. Many of the people that have been associated with Mike Bickle should be avoided like the plague. Having said that, I have been attending IHOP for several months now, having gone there against my will, being led there by the Lord. I have been continually blessed by powerful sermons that have been right on the money. In all those times I have only heard Mike Bickle speak a few times in those six months, but have been blessed every time I have heard him. To say anything else would just not be true. The only time I have felt uncomfortable was when Lou Engle has spoken. Nothing unscriptural was said by him, but alarm bells ring in my spirit as I listen to him. Anyway, as I said before, the people that I have heard, including Alan Hood, have a firm grasp on the fact that the time is short. While most of the so called church is asleep at the wheel, this group of people at least understand the times in which they live. When I hear false prophecy and unscriptural teaching, I will be glad to share it with you guys, but not so far............Frank

Frank... no doubt the time is short, I'm with ya there.

But dont you think this strange mixing of error w/ truth is a dangerous thing? Does Bickle issue any warning to the hearers of these people that you admit should be avoided like the plague... as you put it?

Let's say for a moment that I didn't have an issue with any of Bickle's teachings. Don't you think it strange that he would choose to associate himself with rogues? Don't you think that by him not saying anything about the error that he does associate himself with is in effect promoting, even condoning the errors?

Can't have it both ways. We are commanded in scripture to [b]seperate[/b] ourselves from error. In scripture is says to [b]mark[/b] (point out, warn) and [b]avoid[/b] (seperate, not willing join together with) those who teach false doctrine. We're not even to bid them "godspeed" or let them inside our houses!

So even if I did agree with Bickles teachings... he is clearly disobeying scripture by willingly uniting with those who are clearly false teachers, and not issuing warnings about their teachings.

Krispy

"My main point here tho is that people who support their favorite minister/prophet can not handle any criticism of their hero. When doctrines or prophecies are questioned... instead of honest discussions about it... they turn to name calling, judgmentalism and bating." krispy

Amen. Anyone who 'passed judgment' on a Paul Cain or a Bob Jones would have been treated in similar fashion. Their bad fruit bore them out eventually but there were warnings beforehand. There's a certain amount of integrity involved in coming clean with past connections and condemning the practice of those who are false and fallen. Bickle has cited Paul Cain in prophesy before as I used to have it on tape.... my mother in law kept pushing the IHOP prophets on me with tapes and books. According to Bickle, the prophecy went something like this:

"there will be a new day ahead when there will be no news but GOOD NEWS. Paul Cain said that he had a vision of a news anchor and this anchor started the news with 'there is no news to report but good news'." "He (Paul Cain) said that 'stadium Christianity' will be upon us where we will be filling stadiums to worship God instead of having entertainment events".

Now I paraphrased alot of this but after listening to this tape of Bickle I looked up Paul Cain as I had never heard of him before. Needless to say, I found out all I needed to know on Paul Cain and his backround. This 'good news', from what I gathered at that time was the typical 'feel good', 'good news', Gospel that some preachers have staunchly come against. Bickle has managed to stay out of the 'prophetic fray' but I question his lukewarmness in the history of IHOP and those who associated with the ministry. Bickle was also on GOD TV during the Todd Bentley ministry. Bentley was a protege of Bob Jones who was an associate of IHOP. During that time I never heard much discernment from Bickle on that matter. Like many who were too close to the situation (like Dutch Sheets), he sat on the fence. I know a lot of people are fans of Bickle and trust him. But I believe that he is still holding on to a lot of IHOP baggage. To me, my assessment of Bickle isn't in what he's saying, but what he isn't saying. He may have admitted to some 'mistakes' made during the height of the IHOP ministry but I don't see him outright condemning the false gospel that Paul Cain and Bob Jones have preached, and in the case of Bob Jones still preach.

So I'm with Krispy. We have to be careful of whom we trust. I believe God has shown me this time and time again. That doesn't mean we can't be 'blessed' by a sermon but it does mean that we shouldn't attach ourselves too closely to any one preacher or ministry.

Really the thread is about Mike's vision of the end times, not about his theology or friends; though I must somewhat agree in general that association with heretics and receiving them as ministers doesn't help your cause to be known as a solid brother.

In defense of Mike, He disciplined Bob Jones...[along with others..] in a biblical manner, with the goal being repentance, long before Bob revealed his true colors and non biblical affiliations and doctrines. Jones rebelled against this; and ended up under the "covering" of Rick Joyner and crew.

Paul Cain suffered the exact same scenario and fate; be it with a different perversion revealed. He rebelled against biblical discipline, ran to Joyner's and ministered there. The three of them were integral...[ and still are..] with the demonic manifestations of the likes of Todd Bentley, and supported him and endorsed him at Lakeland last year.

My point is, that Bickle was loyal to these guys long before they showed themselves as heretics, and many , including myself, had a respect for them also. When they sinned, they were confronted. Times have changed, but you cannot fault Mike for being loyal, to his friends, and the Word. I trust mike, but do not agree with him, and he definitely is not a heretic.

Here is the basis of my disagreement with Mike. He embraced the catholic mystics long ago as those of a higher plane....deeper saints than the norm. He believes in his heart that these mystics found god , and every one of these folks...[ men and women..] practiced the "contemplative " model of prayer.

This prayer model is Babylonian, and "Transcendental" in nature...and strangely akin to the eastern occult practices of "focus" and "clearing " your mind to a void, to find revelation. This is practiced at IHOP, and the mystics taught as leaders to obtain the deeper walk with Jesus.

The Catholic mystics were deceived, and the blissful experience satanic, though robed in christian symbols; As the mother, so the daughter. It logically lead to the "Cloister" as the model of the church, and the real disciples...the super devotee's.

Herein comes the model of IHOP....a monastic order, protestant version of the MONASTERY. Rote, non inspired repetitious prayer, uninspired but repeated , over and over, and the same with worship and song. It is not prayer nor is it worship unto Jesus, but as the mystics, it has a form of godliness, but no spirit.

It is discipline, and has it roots in the catholic concept that a SACRIFICIAL LIFE is the most important one to God. It is subtle legalism that promotes the energy to become a high spiritual One, and leaving the devotee always struggling for a deeper commitment, while the peer group...[ fellow monastics..] both support and energize the fellow elites.

It is "high spirituality" and "cold love", for it can never produce real fruit for God.

Hi Krispy,

I agree with your main point. In fact, that would have been a major reason for me not going to IHOP in the past. To me, this is a clear and blatant weakness of Mike Bickle, his refusal to exercise leadership when it comes to Bentlely and all those people who are, and I say without reservation, false prophets. And I accept Tom's points about the Catholicism angle, although some of my own personal favorite people were called mystics, whether it be Jean Guyon or even Tozer. I personally believe, that despite Bickles glaring weakness in this area, that he is used of God and when it comes to the Word of God, I have been greatly blessed by him. These other guys, Bentley included, were so blatantly unscriptural, that it defies reason that people would follow them.

I just want to state again, I have been going to IHOP for six months now, not because I am an IHOPPER, but because I believe that the Lord is about to sweep away the established church and I am just parking it there for the moment, and of course I was compelled to go there by the Spirit :) I can honestly say that I have been blessed every single week by Biblical passionate sermons. I have also enjoyed the worship which has surprised me. I have no doubt that God is using these guys, despite some glaring weaknesses. He seems to have a philosophy that he will not critizise those who call themselves by the name of Jesus. I have heard him say that, which of course I totally disagree with, but putting that disagreement to one side, I have only heard sound Biblical teaching from him, I would be less than honest if I said otherwise...........Frank

2.]The promotion of hierarchy.

There has always been a hierarchy at KC vineyard/fellowship, as it at IHOP today, that has insulated itself inside of the "movement".It is not a church...and that is important to understand. By dismantling the idea of church, and by this only, can you contrive the biblical mandate of a super army, super disciples, that will turn the world upside down. It creates a venue to become one....a holy and powerful Saint...a "Fore-runner company in the vein of John the Baptist!"

The problem is that it never has worked, nor never will. This began over 25 years ago, when the super spiritual KC prophets emerged, and Mike lead Kansas City Fellowship into a praying church....a radical, devoted fasting group that would fill stadiums and shake the Earth. There was almost a spiritual competition as an energy there, and this created the model and term that I use....HIGH SPIRITUALITY..../ COLD LOVE...

THIS EVENTUALLY MORPHED INTO THE VISION OF THE PURE MONASTERY...WHERE A VERY ELITE AND SELECT GROUP WOULD BE NURTURED....IHOP.

24 hour prayer...[ just like the early catholic monks..] 24 hour praise. Pure devotion...and the prideful idea of becoming the "PRAYER MISSIONARY"!... and people were taught to raise their own support...[ donations..] rather than WORK!...to pay their way...[ just like the monasteries..]

The result is that the weak or pushed out...those with families and poverty and teenagers, jobs, that cannot devote the time the nun does....and the young are recruited...and this has been going on long before IHOP.

High spirituality / cold love. This is what a monastery produces, and is the earmark of Ihop, and KCF..and mike created it all.

The true church is the only vehicle that will ever lead us to holiness. It is largely made up of the desperate poor...families that must work 6 days a week,,,and teenagers, and suckling babes, and bosses and jobs, and taxes and life..

If the church will not function among the poor of the earth; IT IS NOT THE CHURCH!...and it is Never, never just for the strong, or the elite few, who may pay the price of a forerunner like john the Baptist.

These kids are constantly being flattered and puffed up to believe that they are all that...the spearhead of Jesus, the deeper ones, the powerful few who will pay and be devoted to Jesus 24/7...while they cannot realize that the Lord values mercy and real love above all....not a devoted monastic life.

This has been going on for many years at KCF/Ihop, and it has always, and always will fail. The church is for the weakling, buttressed by mercy and grace, and empowered by God's true love among us, and the weak cannot perform like the strong ones can. this is where you divide the "spiritual" ones, in Mike's eyes, and it is gross error.

This is the reason the "Prophetic" was elevated...The "Kansas City Prophets" syndrome, and why Mike has a penchant for the Mystics....they are super spiritual, and that to him is the call!... become super committed and super spiritual, and the modus operandi the monastery, or, "the Call", or any number of titled venues that support this false idea of a deeper commitment.

The restoration of the fallen tabernacle of David is not 24/7 prophetic devotion or the cloister...it is the simple church established locally throughout the church...with all of her weakness, distresses, and needs. It is here that we learn to cope in a fallen world, and how to love and restore our brothers and sisters likewise in need; not marching along with an army of super saints.

God's heart in us among the weak will teach us how to love, and this pleases Him the most.