IS OBAMA REALLY the PROBLEM??

IS OBAMA REALLY the PROBLEM??

ARE WE BEING DISTRACTED From THE REAL FIGHT?
-by Andrew Strom.

Years ago a friend of mine, Robert Holmes, saw a vision of
Christians leaving the Harvest field to go and join in with a "Civil
War". They were leaving their primary mission (the gospel) to go
and make war against their own countrymen. What does it mean
and why would they do such a thing? -This was unclear.

Like a lot of you, every day I get bombarded with the latest emails
against Obama - and what he is up to. I can truly understand this.
Unlike a lot of overseas Christians who can't comprehend this kind
of American political partisanship, I truly get it. I lived in America
for four years, and one of the things I saw clearly while living there
is that America is at WAR with itself. And it is getting worse. Right
against left, liberal against conservative. And there is no doubt that
as an evangelical Christian, I am truly a "conservative" myself. But
there is a lot that troubles me about what is going on.

When the US conservatives elected Bush, a lot of the world could
not understand it. I understood it completely. America is at war
with itself and Bush seemed like the most robust campaigner
against the liberal agenda. It did not matter that he was not the
"smartest" guy. He was strongly on "our side" in the culture
war - and that is what mattered: Homosexuality, abortion, taxes,
health care, and so-on. To a lot of US Christians, politics has
become THE main arena where they fight and take a stand. So if
I am a conservative myself, why am I so troubled by a lot of this?

Well, let me ask you some questions and hopefully you will see why:

-Is "Politics" the arena that Christians are supposed to be putting
so much time and energy into fighting? Is that what the early
church did?
-Aren't we supposed to be more passionate about prayer and the
gospel than we are about pulling the "liberals" down?
-Couldn't this be a total distraction from our real mission?
-Doesn't a lot of it amount to a giant "smear" campaign of rumor-
mongering that should be beneath Christians to participate in? -In
other words, isn't the way we are speaking often gossipy, slanderous,
mocking and ungodly?
-Why are prayer and the gospel taking a backseat to Obama-baiting?
-Is the Christian community in any country supposed to become
a "voting bloc" for one particular party?

I think those are pretty important questions. And I think a lot of
Christians may have trouble answering them.

The fact is, I get more "political" anti-Obama emails from US
Christians every day than 'spiritual' emails. What does this say
about conservative Christians? It says they care more about politics
than the gospel. That is the conclusion I have to come to. And I
believe this is Idolatry - pure and simple. Politics has replaced the
pure milk of the word for a lot of Christians. They are on a "campaign"
alright, but it is not a campaign for Jesus. And they devote hours
and hours to it. They are feverishly checking out the "latest dirt" on
Obama every night and hungrily devouring Fox News (which makes
more and more ratings dollars as it drives every fresh controversy).
They love it! There is only one problem: It is not Jesus, it is not the
gospel, and a lot of it is simply not godly at all. In fact, it is
replacing Jesus and replacing the gospel.

If I was the Republican Party or Fox News or Talk Radio (each
hungry for more ratings and dollars - these are not Christian
organizations at all) then I would absolutely LOVE the fact that the
Christians are so easy to whip up into a frenzy of Obama-rumors
and Obama-trash-talk. But none of this is godly, is it? It is not
remotely Christian. The early church would have renounced it
utterly. They took no interest in politics. They only cared about
Jesus and His simple gospel. And that is still the only thing that
can save America today. We are being sidetracked.

But the frenzy continues. "Did you hear the one about Obama
being likened to Hitler?" 'Did you hear the one about Obama's
birth certificate?' 'Did you hear the one about Obama's "death
panels"? 'Did you hear that there are really demons in the Swine
Flu vaccine?' (canned laughter please).

A lot of this amounts to a kind-of Christian "smear" campaign. In
politics much of it would be considered in the 'dirty tricks' category -
the kind of thing you do when trying to ruin someone's reputation
with sick rumors and innuendo. No matter if it's true or not. As long
as it does the job of "smearing" the person. Is that the kind of thing
Jesus would want us involved in?

Here is the truly major thing that I believe the devil is trying to do
in America today:
-He is trying to create division so bitter and so extreme that both
sides literally start to fight one another with guns drawn. He is
trying to tear America apart.
-He is trying to sidetrack the one group that truly has the answer.
He is trying to wrap them up in fighting politics, so they will forget
that the pure GOSPEL is the only real hope for America today.

I believe the devil is truly succeeding in both of the above aims.

To conclude this article, I would like to ask some questions of
the Christians who spend so much time on this "Obama War":

-Do you spend as much time spreading the pure gospel as you
spend spreading stuff about Obama? Why not?
-Is your mind and your energy and your passion more focused on
getting the true gospel out - or defeating Obama and the liberals
in politics?
-If you were asked to turn off Fox News and delete the "Obama"
emails and turn off Talk Radio, etc, could you bear it? Or are
you more-or-less an "addict"?
-Do you really think it is right for this to be the big focus of your life?

I truly believe these are huge issues and huge problems in the
American church today. But I guess I can expect a wave of angry
disagreement in response!

Please send feedback to- prophetic@revivalschool.com

God bless you all.

Andrew Strom.

What's intersting to consider in matters as these is Richard Nieburh's 5 relationships between Christ and culture:

1. Christ AGAINST culture (rejection)
Christ and culture are in direct opposition to each other (= enemies). Therefore, Christians need to fight against/escape from the evils of non-Christian culture, in order to reject ‘worldliness’ altogether. Engagement with non-Christian culture should be minimised, and where possible completely avoided. Eg. Tertullian, Tolstoy, most separatist movements (eg. monastic orders), sects (eg. closed brethren, the Amish and Mennonite communities) and cults (eg. JWs).

2. Christ OF culture (assimilation)
Christ and the best of culture are in agreement with each other (= friends). Christians should embrace the good of non-Christian culture, blending in (= incarnating the gospel) as much as possible with the non-Christian world in order to love others. Eg. most Liberal churches and some parts of the Emerging Church movement.

3. Christ ABOVE culture (synthesis)
Christ is spiritually above and over culture. Therefore Christians should neither reject nor accept non-Christian culture completely. Rather Christians should seek in this life to synthesise their heavenly, Christian lives with their earthly, cultural lives. Eg. Aquinas, most conservative Catholic and Protestant churches (esp. seeing evangelism as the only real connection between Christ and culture).

4. Christ and culture in PARADOX (dualism)
Christ and culture are spiritually divided and cannot be synthesised in this life. Therefore Christians face a tension (only to be resolved with Jesus return) in belonging to this world, and yet belonging at the same time to the world to come. Eg. Luther (and his doctrine of two kingdoms), Lutheranism.

5. Christ TRANSFORMING culture (conversion)
Culture is sinful, but can be transformed by Christ. Therefore, culture is something that needs Christians and the transforming power of the gospel to redeem. Christian are to engage culture in order to bring about its transformation. Eg. Calvin (and his optimism towards social reform), most social action and liberation theology movements.

(These loose treatments taken from http://whatsthedealwithstuff.blogspot.com/2008/12/christ-culture-niebuhr.html )

Men like Strom would fit into "Christ against culture" I believe. Whereas proponents of Christians participating in polotics fall into "Christ transforming culture." The former are strong proponents of Great Commission, pursuit of holines, and practice/demonstration of Christian virtues. The latter, while not excluding the traits of the former, also include what has been deemed the cultural mandate. This madate, proponents say, finds biblical authority in Gen. 1:27-28 (take dominion and subdue), Matt. 28:19 [make disciples of all nations, teaching them (the nation)], and in the doctrine of the Lordship of Christ (nothing is out of Christ's jurisdiction, therfore all things should be redeemed for His glory).

I find strengths and weaknesses in all 5 views and have not thoroughly landed on one in particular.

This is a very good article, Andrew hits the proverbial nail on the head.

This nation is now becoming so polarized, so divided, and the church is being swept up into it. We need to tune out the media circus and get on our knees before God and cry out for compassion, holiness, and spiritual authority to speak life into the death around us.

In Christ,

Ron

Greetings!

I think that now is the time to pray as much as ever before! I've heard so many people sharing the "doom and gloom" message over the past four or five years. And, yes, we need to hear it if such words and attitudes are REALLY from God. Yet it is important to remember that it does not bring God any joy to bring down judgment upon the world. He would much rather have them repent.

That is the "good news!"

People don't have to fear...to be tossed to and fro by the cares of this world. People can still have the hope that is only found in Christ Jesus! What this world needs more than ever...is to know Jesus.

During these uncertain times, we still have a certainty that defies all questions! We can know the God who created all things! Our faith is on the One who is from everlasting to everlasting!

While others are publicly pronouncing judgment (or, at least, to other believers), I am still praying for the country of my temporary citizenship. I pray that God withholds his judgment. Why? Well, I live here. This is the place that God put me. My wife and family also lives here with me. My neighbors live here. But far more importantly, there is still so much work to do!

I don't want to sit perched on a hill waiting for the destruction of this nation (like Jonah sitting above Nineveh). I am praying that God can spare this nation in the hope that more people can find Christ before the end comes. After all, it is the very nature of God to save! I've often wondered what would happen if all of the people who proclaimed disasters like 9/11, Hurricane Katrina, bank closures, etc... as the "judgment of God" would actually go to places like New York and New Orleans...and preach the Good News of Jesus Christ? They might still share their supposed "word" about the judgement of God...but they can cap it off with the good news about the eternal escape provided to those who believe in Christ! I wonder what kind of difference it would make?

Yes, I do believe that judgment will ultimately come. However, I am praying that God delays it for the sake of those who can still come to know Him while it is yet day.

Like Brother Andrew says, the problem is not with a man like Obama or Bush. The problem is with our lack of resistance to the the god of this world. Are we willing to come to Christ for all that He is...or trade Him for the pleasures of sin during this short life? The good news is that Christ offers us Himself in exchange for our own troubled, wretched souls! What a bargain! We can KNOW Him! Just that thought alone makes the darkest night seem, well, not so dark.

:-)

Thank you for your article, Andrew. Lots of good observations there.

Here is the truly major thing that I believe the devil is trying to do in America today:

-He is trying to create division so bitter and so extreme that both sides literally start to fight one another with guns drawn. He is trying to tear America apart.

-He is trying to sidetrack the one group that truly has the answer. He is trying to wrap them up in fighting politics, so they will forget that the pure GOSPEL is the only real hope for America today.

The real problem, I believe, is this:

Isa 29:13 The Lord says: “These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, [b]but their hearts are far from me[/b]."

[b]The problem is not the devil, and neither is it Obama --- the problem is us[/b].

Hi Frank...

I think that you misunderstood what I am saying. I [u]certainly[/u] believe that there are prophetic words today. However, I am saying that God doesn't delight in pouring out judgment. He doesn't take pleasure in the death of the wicked. Too often, I have seen "prophets" (or those who would like others to be recognize them as "prophets" and "watchmen") who share the judgment part -- but neglect to present the accompanying "good news." The New Covenant brings us hope...because Jesus' death was a ransom for many. We can stand boldly in the face of death, destruction, famine or torture and know that our salvation lay just on the other side of our last breath.

A few years ago, people stood up and loudly proclaimed that Hurricane Katrina was the judgment of God poured out against a town as sinful as New Orleans. Of course, we know that judgment is coming. Yet, like you said, what do we do about it? Are we out leading people to the Lord? I have known "preachers" who have admitted that they hadn't led someone to the Lord in years! Instead, they sit content on proclaiming all of their "words" to people INSIDE of the Body of Christ. Preaching to the choir? It is easy preaching "judgment" to people in the Body of Christ who are more apt to hear and believe it. It is another thing entirely to share these "words" and "prophecies" about judgment to the secular world.

We know that Joel and others prophesied. Yet I think that the book of Jonah shows God's reaction to a prophet who almost seems to delight in such a thing (or, at least, who wants the judgment to come). When it comes to "words" of judgment about America, I choose to remain in prayer. It isn't because I love the politics, government, or lifestyle afforded by citizenship here. Rather, I care for my family, my neighbors, the Church and even the sinners in the country of my temporary citizenship. I pray that God spares this nation a little while longer...so that others may come to Him. This is not prayed in selfish vanity or a love for the things OF this world; but rather, it is prayed out of love for those people IN this world -- who are like sheep having no shepherd.

America is so young! Brother Ravenhill wrote a book entitled AMERICA IS TOO YOUNG TO DIE. Yet regardless of just how soon judgment may or may not come to this nation, I am struck by the realization that America has only been around for 223 years. It has only been a major world power for less than a century. Many other "kingdoms" and "empires" lasted for much longer periods of time. Yes, I suppose that God could be far less patient with this nation than those godless empires that lasted for a hundreds of years. Yet I still choose to pray for this nation...that God's judgment would not be hastened.

This has nothing to do with politics...and little to do with President Bush or President Obama. Yes, we live in a nation where people are willing to murder the unborn for the sake of convenience. Yes, we live in a nation where homosexuals are applauded for parading their sin through the streets. Yes, we have a party in power who applauds such things as fundamental rights. Yet a light appears brighter when the night is darkest. Now is not the time to hide the light of the Lord under a bushel. Yet, far too often, would-be prophets often bring their "words" only to people under the bushel of the Church.

We truly need a revival more than judgment.

:-)

Hi Frank...

I certainly agree with the understanding that God's judgment is coming. In fact, this is evident in the very Word of God...written thousands of years ago! Yet God mingles his words of judgment with perfect love and mercy in a new covenant. It isn't just a pronouncement of judgment. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is that men can come to know the Creator of the universe! By choosing to follow after Him instead of selfishly preferring the things of this world for personal pleasure, men can escape a guilty sentence on the day of God's judgment.

Please don't get me wrong: I don't shy away from the "supernatural." In fact, I have seen things and experienced things that I won't even write about! I know that God still acts and moves in supernatural ways in this present world.

Sadly, there is a lot of fake stuff out there that tends to convolute what is from God. I have met so many people who claimed to be prophets (or who seem to want recognition as such). Unfortunately, much of what they say is hidden behind something less becoming than what should be expected in a child of God. It is like a tap that spurts out both clean and dirty water. Often, it isn't just what these people say -- but by the spirit in which they say it. Of all of the would-be prophets out there, I haven't seen many that I can conclude are the "real thing."

Of course, I don't know what would prompt a man to falsely prophesy by speaking their own words as if they were the words of God. While some could do it for monetary game, I think that many actually mean well. Perhaps they are offering God a little "help" -- like the man who tried to steady the cart with the Ark on it. Perhaps the ego has grown so large...and they still feel a love for God...that they proclaim what they "think" as if it were written in Heaven. Someone suggested something like this on the 23 MINUTES IN HELL thread last week. Either way, they are unaware of the damage that they do when they speak for God but are speaking under their own imagination.

Of course, this thread isn't really about that. However, it was about the possibility of the judgment of God coming quickly upon America. Interestingly enough, we had a couple of dear brothers in the Lord (sincere, I feel very confident to say) who proclaimed that an economic judgment was going to happen a couple of years ago...within a particular calendar year. Lots of "lesser" judgments were seen -- like Hurricane Katrina. Yet I worried for those brothers who spoke with such specifics. You see, they didn't utter one of those generic "judgment is coming" words (we hear so many of those today, but mostly for the positive). They spoke with specifics. December 31st came...and went...without a stock market crash.

I felt great concern and compassion for those brothers...because I cared for them deeply. And I still do. They are in my prayers often. I trust that they sincerely felt that the word was true...but it just wasn't accurate (at least, not in its entirety). Yet just before the set dates, I told one of these brothers that I was praying that his prophesy would NOT come to pass. Why? I still care for the country of my temporary citizenship. I am praying that God will spare the people of this country long enough for God to do something great "while it is yet day." That is still my prayer each time that I hear another person pronounce that judgment is coming. It isn't that I don't believe it will come (especially with the rate of decay of society). Rather, I am praying because there is still so much work to be done. I am praying that the Lord of the harvest sends workers before the sun sets completely on this nation.

As for the other thing to consider, I don't know any believers who think of people like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity or Ann Coulter as anything more than political pundits. I don't listen to them. I have heard them in the past, but it was extremely rare. I don't know what they have done to invite your constant agitation, although their words or views might be aggressively abrasive. Now, I do consider myself to be quite conservative when speaking of matters of righteousness (particularly in regard to abortion, etc...). I am not this way because of media bias on television, print or radio. I am this way because I know Jesus Christ and His Word...and this has impressed me one way or the other. While you might want people in the "conservative Christian" movement to stand up to the Limbaugh's, Hannity's or Coulter's or this land, I think that there are far more pressing issues at hand. Like Andrew said, it isn't necessarily about Obama...or Bush...or Clinton...or Van Jones...etc... Usually, my issues are in regard to specific matters of righteousness or unrighteousness.

Yes, things are poised to grow darker. We have a government that is actively promoting abortion. We have members of government who are encouraging homosexuals to parade in the streets in their attempt to redefine marriage. We have members of Congress who strive to treat homosexuals like they are normal and Christians like they are imbeciles. We have members of the government who are more worried about the planet's temperature than the spiritual and moral climate of their own children. We have politicians worried more about unborn penguins and polar bears that the defenseless children being murdered by an act of their legislation. Yes, these are about issues...and not the person. It doesn't matter to me if such decrepit sin is embraced or promoted by a Limbaugh or an Obama -- it is still sin. When I point to people that I meet and tell them about the Lord, I mention just how sinful this world has gotten. Society just doesn't even blush any more in regard to sin! Like Ray Comfort says, it is difficult to tell people that they need to be saved when they don't think that they are doing anything wrong to begin with.

Yes, we need a revival -- and by that I mean a penetrating hunger to know the Living God! We are in dire need of REAL prophets too...Elijahs of God! Where are the John the Baptists? Where are the men who will stand up in this world and prepare the way of the Lord? Where is a man who is not afraid to tell Herod what sin is? Sadly, most would-be prophets are too busy telling their words to the Church than telling them to a world that is lost and dying and racing toward judgment.

:-(

Hi Frank...

I wouldn't say that it is my "ministry" to identify false prophets. I think that we are all called to "test everything." Now, this is not the same as judging the heart of a man. I have met people who have admitted to certain things...but they still had at least some semblance of a heart for God. I have met people who later admitted to having faked certain "supernatural" things (such as being slain in the spirit, claiming to have visions and dreams, and even prophesying). They did claim to love the Lord and this love seemed somewhat sincere. Why did they do it? Well, they each were different. One guy told me that he didn't even know WHY he did it.

The reason that I mention issues like abortion, homosexuality, etc... is because sometimes people need to know what the sins of this world are. Yes, the world is wicked and has ALWAYS been wicked (without Christ). Yet, in the last days, wickedness has multiplied upon the Earth. It has increased to the point where men don't know what is wicked and what is not. Politicians are saying that homosexuality is normal...and those who claim that it is not are "hateful." I tell this to people in order to illustrate how quickly this world is spiraling into even further darkness.

Of course, the Church should already know this. If not, people need to stand up and say it. Yet the prophets of the Old Testament went and proclaimed God's Word to the world. They went into sinful places and told the truth. The Church certainly needs to be told the truth too. However, it seems like most of the "prophets" and "evangelists" spend their time and effort talking to believers...and not unbelievers. This doesn't help much (at least, directly) in regard to the people going to Hell. We have become like the Parable of the Fishless Fishermen, where professional "fishers of men" spend their time lecturing others about going fishing...but never catching fish themselves.

I didn't bring up Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity or Ann Coulter -- you did. I am familiar with them and some of the things that they say, so I do feel enough to make a comment. You have vilified these people several times. Why? What have they said? If it is so important that you point them out with your words, why not be specific? What have they said or done that has caused "enormous damage?" You may think that people "idolize" them, but I have never met a true believer who has. To me (and to all of the believers that I know), those figures are merely flawed political media pundits. I don't trust them any more than I do anyone else. I do think that you need to be careful when you point out names like this without bringing any proof with you. There is a problem when someone feels the need to pinpoint figures like Hannity, Limbaugh, Coultier, Presidents Bush or President Obama. In fact, it sort of goes along with what Andrew Strom is saying in this article.

As for why people are not getting saved: I think that it is ridiculous to conclude that the world is not getting saved because some Christians go to a rally in Washington. That is silly and seems to be a slightly off-cuff remark directed at those believers who feel that they can preach the Gospel to the world AND still have limited participation in government functions.

There are plenty of reasons why the world is not getting saved. We are competing with the god of this age...and he offers quite a bit of pleasure in return for their souls. More importantly, there are a lot of people who don't know that they need to be saved to begin with! Then we have preachers who teach an arrogant, self-centered gospel that is devoid of anything close to the heart of Christ. We have well-meaning "prophets" who are so arrogant in their attempt to be considered a "prophet" by others that they are unaware that their "words" are filled with their own ideas rather than the Word of God. We have churches that don't preach the Word.

Most importantly (and telling), we have "Christians" who simply do not know Christ. I heard a message by David Wilkerson once where he mentions a well-known minister of a large American Pentecostal congregation who admitted to having not prayed in over a year. Wow! This man bragged about leading souls to Christ...but didn't truly know Christ for himself! What a miserable state! When I heard that, I just wondered how many "prophets" had given this man a "word" about all of the great things that he had been doing. Even more, I wondered how many other preachers were just like him. I know that I have met people who appeared to be strong believers...preaching against sin...giving "words"...yet they themselves later admitted that they were "lost" in sin.

Yeah, this world needs Jesus. The reasons that this world is not finding Jesus are numerous...but the solution is still so simple. We need to know Jesus Christ...in truth.

:-)

Hey Frank

I have noticed that you have posted about these political news people a few times over the last week in a couple of threads. Again you wrote: If you know nothing of Rush Limbaugh and his cohorts brother, then perhaps you should not comment? Enough to say that they have caused enormous damage to conservative Christians who idolize them.
_____

It does seem clear that these people have really caused you some irritation and its clear you do not like them. May I ask have you ever prayed for any of these three people you keep mentioning? I ask because they are lost and have need for Jesus to right? They need to repent and cry out to the Lord. Have you ever prayed for them specifically and individually to know Jesus?

Just wondering
rdg

Frank wrote:As for the pundits that I mentioned, and if anyone remotely follows my posts will know that this is not something that I have said in the last few weeks but have said for years. In fact anyone can go to my site and punch in their names and see what I have written.The original post says it well what they do....
_____________

So if this was directed toward me and my question that I posted, I don't follow your posts really, just something I picked up in in a few of them. You don't like them its pretty evident:-) And to be honest I have never been to your web site, I tend to stay away from outside web sites for the most part. Anyway I was just asking if you ever prayed for any of these people specifically to come to know Jesus so that they might be saved:-)
IF you were not addressing me at all with your comment then its all good.

was just wondering
rdg

Frank...

Chris, in any conversation you and I have, this is invariably the way it goes. I am not sure that I can address someone who is constantly shifting. How can you say in one breath that you do not listen to them and then say that you are familiar with what they say and feel qualified to comment? Seeems like double talk Chris.

You go on and write " Then we have preachers who teach an arrogant, self-centered gospel that is devoid of anything close to the heart of Christ. We have well-meaning "prophets" who are so arrogant in their attempt to be considered a "prophet" by others that they are unaware that their "words" are filled with their own ideas rather than the Word of God. We have churches that don't preach the Word."

Yet all along you you critisise others for saying this very same thing. Again, inconsistant. If you have something to say against false prohets in regards to this thread, then I would turn your own comments back on yourself and ask you to be specific. If you have no problems with this particular post, then why the reference again to false prophets? Who is not a false prophet to you Chris? I have given you examples of people that I considered to be prohpetic. Ravenhill, Tozer, Wilkerson and Carter Conlon. You have given no specifics, just general negative statements about false prophets out of context, unless you think there is a context to this particular thread.

s for the pundits that I mentioned, and if anyone remotely follows my posts will know that this is not something that I have said in the last few weeks but have said for years. In fact anyone can go to my site and punch in their names and see what I have written.The original post says it well what they do....

"If I was the Republican Party or Fox News or Talk Radio (each
hungry for more ratings and dollars - these are not Christian
organizations at all) then I would absolutely LOVE the fact that the
Christians are so easy to whip up into a frenzy of Obama-rumors
and Obama-trash-talk. But none of this is godly, is it? It is not
remotely Christian. The early church would have renounced it
utterly. They took no interest in politics. They only cared about
Jesus and His simple gospel. And that is still the only thing that
can save America today. We are being sidetracked."

I have renounced it also for many years, and yes,I agree, the early church would have also renounced it.

Now, I don't listen to FoxNews...or those radio personalities. I have heard Rush Limbaugh in the past, and never really cared for him much. Why? It wasn't that I thought he was fabricating facts in regard to politics. The few times that I heard him, I actually agreed with what he was saying. However, I merely disagreed with the manner in which he was saying it. It came across (at least to me) as somewhat arrogant. However, you seem to know him better than me. You have pointed him and the others out with accusations...but with no substance for such accusations. What evidence are you presenting? Do you see the problem here? You pointed out three people in a very similar way that you pointed out President Bush last year. After you make an accusation about them...you neglect to provide any proof for it. If you want to give any weight to your words, why not back them up with fact?

I know that you might misunderstand and think that I am "defending" Limbaugh, Hannity or Anne Coulter (like you accused me of defending President Bush from your accusations last year). However, I am not "defending" them at all. Rather, I am testing [i]your words[/i]. If you are going to come here...in a Christian forum dedicated to revival...bring up the issue...and make the accusation...then please provide some semblance of proof. Otherwise, it is probably best that you don't bring it up to begin with. The burden of proof should not be with those who you accuse. I still can't help but wonder why you brought them up in the first place. Do you really see a problem with Christians hearing those people? Are those Christians so weak minded or stupid as to be led astray by a couple of secular political pundits?

One last time brother I will try and get a comment from you on Christians not seeing anyone saved. Now you can blame preachers, as you did above, but its not a preachers job to share the Gospel, its the saints job. 100 million prople in America claiming, not just to be Christians, but to be born again. If each one of these guys saw just one person saved by their personal sharing, and each one of those saved saw just one saved by their personal sharing, then all of America would be saved in the next two years.

Of course, I don't think that there are really 100 Million real Christians in America. I don't know where you got that figure...and I don't know many true Christians who think that one out of every three Americans is truly born again. Now, there might be 100 Million people who attend churches across the country...but that is an entirely different thing altogether (of which, I think we all understand). My earlier point is that many of those would-be "prophets" love to visit Christian churches (or websites) and proclaim their "prophetic words" in the presence of other believers. Now, wouldn't it be great if there were some of them that actually went into the world with such words? I am glad that there are people who do that. However, most of the "prophets" and "watchmen" that I know are preaching to the choir (other believers) -- over and over again. If someone believes that America is going to be judged -- then go tell it on the streets of America! Why should they run and tell believers (who should already be prepared anyway)? It is the world that is in need of saving! Yes, I know that there are many, many church goers in need of Christ too...but the message of Christ must be heard by all. Even by your own statistics, there are 200 Million people who do [u]not[/u] claim to be believers. That means the largest portion of the harvest is outside of the walls of a church building...and outside of the Christian websites...and outside of our circle of Christian friends. They are in dire need of Christ. If ever there was a group that needed to hear a true "word" from God, it is them.

Of course, I don't even know how this thread changed the subject. In my initial post, I simply wanted to encourage the brethren to pray that God spares this country just a little longer. God can still do a miracle in this nation. Although I strongly disagree with President Obama on several major issues, I pray for him with full sincerity. I pray that he will know the Lord as well as I want to know the Lord! Wouldn't it be awesome if God grabbed a hold of President Obama's heart...and the President announced to the world that he had met the one true Living God? When a king turned to the Lord in the Old Testament, great things happened. The same could be true here. Who knows? Perhaps President Obama would turn around the legislated acts of unrighteousness? Perhaps he could rise up as one of the greatest evangelists? This is my prayer. I also pray for the millions of unborn babies who are slaughtered by the legislated sin of abortion. I also pray for the young men and women who grow up confused by legislators who try to force children to think that homosexuality is "normal."

Anyway, I think that we agree more than we disagree. I am puzzled by what seems to be some finger pointing at those radio pundits that seems eerily similar to the fingers pointed at President Bush last year. Of course, much of that finger pointing last year also came from major media pundits too...albeit on other channels. Rather, many preachers simply joined them with rhetorical assaults on President Bush. My wife made a comment today that it does seem a little hypocritical. If we strive to be apolitical, then we need to remain completely apolitical.

:-(

chapel wrote:
IS OBAMA REALLY the PROBLEM??

ARE WE BEING DISTRACTED From THE REAL FIGHT?
-by Andrew Strom.

Years ago a friend of mine, Robert Holmes, saw a vision of
Christians leaving the Harvest field to go and join in with a "Civil
War". They were leaving their primary mission (the gospel) to go
and make war against their own countrymen. What does it mean
and why would they do such a thing? -This was unclear.

Like a lot of you, every day I get bombarded with the latest emails
against Obama - and what he is up to. I can truly understand this.
Unlike a lot of overseas Christians who can't comprehend this kind
of American political partisanship, I truly get it. I lived in America
for four years, and one of the things I saw clearly while living there
is that America is at WAR with itself. And it is getting worse. Right
against left, liberal against conservative. And there is no doubt that
as an evangelical Christian, I am truly a "conservative" myself. But
there is a lot that troubles me about what is going on.

When the US conservatives elected Bush, a lot of the world could
not understand it. I understood it completely. America is at war
with itself and Bush seemed like the most robust campaigner
against the liberal agenda. It did not matter that he was not the
"smartest" guy. He was strongly on "our side" in the culture
war - and that is what mattered: Homosexuality, abortion, taxes,
health care, and so-on. To a lot of US Christians, politics has
become THE main arena where they fight and take a stand. So if
I am a conservative myself, why am I so troubled by a lot of this?

Well, let me ask you some questions and hopefully you will see why:

-Is "Politics" the arena that Christians are supposed to be putting
so much time and energy into fighting? Is that what the early
church did?
-Aren't we supposed to be more passionate about prayer and the
gospel than we are about pulling the "liberals" down?
-Couldn't this be a total distraction from our real mission?
-Doesn't a lot of it amount to a giant "smear" campaign of rumor-
mongering that should be beneath Christians to participate in? -In
other words, isn't the way we are speaking often gossipy, slanderous,
mocking and ungodly?
-Why are prayer and the gospel taking a backseat to Obama-baiting?
-Is the Christian community in any country supposed to become
a "voting bloc" for one particular party?

I think those are pretty important questions. And I think a lot of
Christians may have trouble answering them.

The fact is, I get more "political" anti-Obama emails from US
Christians every day than 'spiritual' emails. What does this say
about conservative Christians? It says they care more about politics
than the gospel. That is the conclusion I have to come to. And I
believe this is Idolatry - pure and simple. Politics has replaced the
pure milk of the word for a lot of Christians. They are on a "campaign"
alright, but it is not a campaign for Jesus. And they devote hours
and hours to it. They are feverishly checking out the "latest dirt" on
Obama every night and hungrily devouring Fox News (which makes
more and more ratings dollars as it drives every fresh controversy).
They love it! There is only one problem: It is not Jesus, it is not the
gospel, and a lot of it is simply not godly at all. In fact, it is
replacing Jesus and replacing the gospel.

If I was the Republican Party or Fox News or Talk Radio (each
hungry for more ratings and dollars - these are not Christian
organizations at all) then I would absolutely LOVE the fact that the
Christians are so easy to whip up into a frenzy of Obama-rumors
and Obama-trash-talk. But none of this is godly, is it? It is not
remotely Christian. The early church would have renounced it
utterly. They took no interest in politics. They only cared about
Jesus and His simple gospel. And that is still the only thing that
can save America today. We are being sidetracked.

But the frenzy continues. "Did you hear the one about Obama
being likened to Hitler?" 'Did you hear the one about Obama's
birth certificate?' 'Did you hear the one about Obama's "death
panels"? 'Did you hear that there are really demons in the Swine
Flu vaccine?' (canned laughter please).

A lot of this amounts to a kind-of Christian "smear" campaign. In
politics much of it would be considered in the 'dirty tricks' category -
the kind of thing you do when trying to ruin someone's reputation
with sick rumors and innuendo. No matter if it's true or not. As long
as it does the job of "smearing" the person. Is that the kind of thing
Jesus would want us involved in?

Here is the truly major thing that I believe the devil is trying to do
in America today:
-He is trying to create division so bitter and so extreme that both
sides literally start to fight one another with guns drawn. He is
trying to tear America apart.
-He is trying to sidetrack the one group that truly has the answer.
He is trying to wrap them up in fighting politics, so they will forget
that the pure GOSPEL is the only real hope for America today.

I believe the devil is truly succeeding in both of the above aims.

To conclude this article, I would like to ask some questions of
the Christians who spend so much time on this "Obama War":

-Do you spend as much time spreading the pure gospel as you
spend spreading stuff about Obama? Why not?
-Is your mind and your energy and your passion more focused on
getting the true gospel out - or defeating Obama and the liberals
in politics?
-If you were asked to turn off Fox News and delete the "Obama"
emails and turn off Talk Radio, etc, could you bear it? Or are
you more-or-less an "addict"?
-Do you really think it is right for this to be the big focus of your life?

I truly believe these are huge issues and huge problems in the
American church today. But I guess I can expect a wave of angry
disagreement in response!

Please send feedback to- prophetic@revivalschool.com

God bless you all.

Andrew Strom.

I have posted this again to hopefully get us back on track to answering the question:

"ARE WE BEING DISTRACTED From THE REAL FIGHT?"

I believe we have because we are called to be light to this world and that light is not to illuminate men, it is to lead people to Jesus Christ. Is it not past time to get about the Lord's business. We will never accomplish the Lord's will playing politics but we sure will glorify man. Which will it be, the Lord or your
political interest?

I agree with brother Frank, if we would all lead just one to Jesus Christ we would have the revival we are praying.
What are we waiting for, someone else to do it for us?