Thoughts on Pentecost....will we attain it?

hi, i tremble to answer this post. i was weeping over my sinful condition and confessing my many sins when i told God how i did not fit in with the christian people very well for i was a good sinner and not a very good example of what a christian should be and that i needed special help from God just to survive as a believer... at this moment i began to speak in a language that was strange to me .... it flowed like a river from within me... as a baptist who never was around pentecostal people or churches i was very ignorant of what was happening in me... that was over 40 years ago and Jesus has lived bigger in me every year.. i thank Him for this gift but mostly for his love toward me that He would indure the cross for such a worm.jimp

So, in the eternal sense, there will never be another Pentecost, but as long as we are on this earth, there will be pentecostal experience,; and your right, there are criteria. The question is, HOW? Is it but the mere formality of understanding that God requires holiness, and a repentant heart?....and because we would desire it?, and that we would automatically obtain it by the virtue of being a son or daughter alone?

To me this question is a bit like asking will I ever have another chance to go swimming while I am currently doing the breast stroke in the middle of a pristine mountain lake.

In 1989 I experienced pentecost just as I read in Acts 2, Acts 10:44, Acts 19:2. Up to that point I was born again, yet struggled with a lack of power over some besetting sins in my life. I had a powerful conversion with a strong knowledge and witness of sins forgiven, but there was something lacking. That was a POWER over some particular strongholds that I did not seem to walk in.

After being baptized in the Holy Spirit, I found myself experiencing victory over these things as never before. As I have learned to walk in the Spirit, I have had fulfilled in me Galatians 5:16. I don't question whether there will be another pentecost. The Holy Spirit was poured out 50 days after passover in that first year of the early church for the purposes that Jesus taught in the latter part of the book of John, and He has never been removed. Praise God I live in pentecost and God is so good to have sent His Holy Spirit that we can have the same spirit that raised Christ from the dead DWELLING IN US!!! Hallelujah!!

When I was born again, I desired holiness because that is what a born again person desires. When your spirit is reborn (John 3) and you become a new creature in Christ, your regenerate spirit no longer desires sin in any way. What I lacked was the power that allowed me to walk it out, to allow my born again spirit to have supremacy over my flesh. Pentecost, the baptism of the Holy Spirit, was the thing that gave me that power. It gave me the power to be a martyr, to lay my life down, in more ways than just one. We cannot limit this verse (Acts 1:8) to the mission field. Martyrs are not so because they laid their lives down on one occasion. They were martyrs long before their physical sacrifice. Holiness is the life of the Holy Spirit lived out through me as I walk this earth as a martyr, as a living sacrifice holy and acceptable unto Him.

Very thought provoking post Brother. I am blessed by it and encouraged this morning.

(from the outset pardon my spelling, I just dont' have time to spell check.)

Every once in a while, I google speaking in tongues to see what it going on the Christianland.

Today I thought I would see if anyone out there was teaching people HOW to speak in tongues. I did this also about a year ago, and since then there is a new article on ehow on How to Speak in Tongues.

http://www.ehow.com/how_2120284_speak-tongues.html

Really there is some reletivly good advice, but it's the last comment that I have a disagrement with.

Step 3 Let go. Trying too hard will do nothing but frustrate you. Speaking in tongues is not something that can be learned or practiced. It is not a skill to be actively pursued. Rather, it is a gift offered to you that must be passively accepted.

WHAT IF, that is not correct? In fact what if all the manifestations of the spirit can be learned and practiced, and are actually skills that God wants us to actively persue.

I state that this is the truth and this is the case. Perhaps if you do not speak in tongues, it's simply because you've been waiting around to receive something you were already given, when you first believed.

BUT if you have been taught, that you must ask for it, or that it's a special gift, or some get it and some don't, and you wait around for God to give you something you already have, chances are you will not "operate" it.

Or also if you have been taught or have come to believe you have to be real holy and perfect before you get it, you may not operate it either.

Notice I have used the word "operate" in regards to speaking in tongues. This is because YOU are the one that has to OPERATE what God has already given you.

Now if I was to drive a back-hoe up to you and jump out and tell you to dig a ditch, would you necessarily know how to OPERATE that back-hoe? No not necessarily.

Speaking in tongues is no different than a back-hoe, it's given to you to give you the power to get a tough job done. But you have to know where it's parked and how to operate the power correctly and appropriately. Not only that, but the more you practice the better you get at it.

Just like theire are heavy equipment operators, God meant us to be "holy spirit operators".

Now in order for you to learn to operate your holy spirit properly, there are a few misunderstandings you may have, that need to be cleared up.

1. Speaking in tongues is not a gift.

Now you've probably heard it called that before. But the truth is that no where in God's word does it say speaking in tongues a.k.a. praying in or by the spirit is a "gift".

The misunderstanding comes from not understanding that the word "gifts" in 1 Cor 12:1 is usually in the KJV in itallics and is not in the text.

1 Cor 12:1 [b]Now concerning spiritual [i]gifts[/i], brethren, I would not have you ignorant. [/b]

Again the word "gifts" is not in the text. The word translated "spiritual" here is the Greek word "pneumatikon", meaning spiritual or supernatural workings or manifestations, evidences, operations.

Paul said he don't want you ignorant, but Satan sure does, you know why? Because it'st he operation of these supernatural works that devistate his kingdom. So sure he really wants you all to be ignorant of them. To misunderstand and or not even believe in them. And if he can't get that then he'll have you misuse them.

As Paul goes on in the chapter he lists NINE manifestations or evidences of the one and the self same spirit that is given to EVERY MAN for profit of one kind or another.

Speaking in tongues is NOT a gift, it's a MANIFESTATION of the "gift" of holy spirit.

1 Cor 12:7 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 For to EACH one is given through the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge IN the same Spirit;

9 To another faith IN the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing IN the same Spirit;

10
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

11
[b]But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to EACH man severally as he (the man) will.

HOLD ON RIGHT THERE! Someone is thinking that it says that he gives one person this and another person that. This leads us to another misunderstanding, that someone might be given speaking in tongues and another person may not.

However this don't hold water if you just continue to read all the chapters here regarding the subject.

Remember what Jesus said:

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; [b]they shall speak with new tongues;[/b]

And what does Paul also say, later in Corinthians?

1 Cor 14:

1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual (pneumatikos)...

2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself;

5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues,[b] except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.[/b]

(speaking in tongues with the manifestation of interpretaton is equal to prophecy.)

12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous (DESIREOUS) of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit,(SPEAK IN TONGUES) and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit,(SING IN TONGUES) and I will sing with the understanding also.

16 Else when thou shalt (SPEAK IN TONGUES AND)bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at [b]thy giving of thanks[/b], seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

17 [b]For thou verily givest thanks well,[/b] but the other is not edified.

18 [b]I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:[/b]

21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
Isa 28:11,12

22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.

31
For ye may all prophesy one by one, (as well as speak in tonuges one by one, which he said in verse 27) that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

32 [b]And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.[/b]

33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

39 [b]Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.[/b]

40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

I picked out the verses dealing with tongues, to show that it was God's will that they desired these things in their life.

Another misunderstanding is that people are often taught that in order to speak in tongues, God takes over and makes you speak in tongues. Or that you have to have an "experience", or be in some emotional state.

But what was the last very we read there? It said "The spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets." That means that the holy spirit God has ALREADY given you is YOURS. You must be the one to OPERATE it.

So then speaking in tongues is completely and totally at the freedom of your own will to manifest, or operate or not operate, do or not do, speak or not speak.

BUT the question is HOW do you operate it? HOW do you speak it forth? HOW do you manifest it?

Here is the key.

FIRST realize and acknowledge that you have been given the gift of the holy spirit, and it lives inside you. Jesus called this being indued with power from on high. YOU HAVE THE POWER LATENT WITHIN YOU ALREADY! Every single believer has had the power, and only did not manifest it because they were not taught correctly.

SECOND, take a moment to considder the mechanics of speach. When you speak normally in order to talk, you move your lips, your mouth, your throat and tongue. YOU choose to start and you choose to stop.

Speaking in tongues is EXACTLY like this. In that you must begin to move your lips, mouth, throat and tongue, you must begin to form words with your mouth.

That you speak is YOUR BUSINESS, but what you speak is the holy spirits business. If you will but begin to move your lips, mouth, throat and tongue and formulate words, speaking in tongues will come out.

I have correctly taught quite a few people from all different back grounds about the truth of speaking in tongues being a manifestation, they must opperate by the freedom of their will.

In teaching these things I have had many people speak in tonges. Catholics, BAPTISTS, and even small children.

Some times in order to get children to operate the manifestation, I will tell them to pretend to speak in another language. Children are great at this. If they are believers they will just simply open their mouth and start to speak, thinking they are pretending to speak in another language, but it is genuine speaking in tongues.

I actually spoke in tongues before I ever even heard of it. I was a believer, I did have the holy spirit, and so I had the ability, becasue the ability is in that one and the self same spirit.

THE ABILTIY is already in the spirit you have been given. As well the eight other manifestations, however only speaking in tongues is an ability that can be used anywhere anytime, and primarily for your own personal private prayer life.

I do not go around speaking in tongues to people. That would be to misuse the manifestation. It if primarily for you in your private prayer life. But you choose to do or not to do it, and if you are going to do it, then you have to remember to do it. God never takes you over.

Another most important key in operating speaking in tongues, is that when you start you just do not pay attention to the words you are speaking.

In other words, don't let you mind talk you out of it. Your mind will try and tell you that it sounds like jibberish. Or your mind will tell you, "Are you really doing this, is this really speaking in tongues?"

Don't listen to your own head in that regard.

Like a baby, you may be clumsy at firsty and only speak a few words, but you just keep PRACTICING and moving your lips, mouth, throat and tongue, and ignore how it sounds "to you".

I will tell you a story about the most recent person that God led me to lead into speaking in tongues.

This is a little boy that I have been working with for 2 years. He was literally POSSESSED when I first met him and they said he had turrets syndrome.

But he wanted to be a Christian, and has been stuggeling to be a "good boy". WOW did that kid ever have a mouth on him and not a good one.

The other day we went for a drive, and I took him and his sister to a farm.

On the way they asked me if I could sing the Star Spangeld Banner, and I said yes and sang it for them.

They were laughing and thrilled. Then I sang "MY Country Tis of Thee", and when I was done I told them that the tune of that song was the national anthem of Britton and called God Save the Queen.

I then told them that every foreign country had it's own national anthem. They asked "what does foreign mean?"

I told them that is a country that most often speaks another language. They asked me if I could sing the Spanich National Anthem.

I said no I did not know Spanish. But they keep bugging me. Then I got this idea. I told my young friends that I could PRETEND to speak in Spanish and sing the Spanish National Anthem.

So I sang in tongues to the tune of my country Tis of Thee, God Save the Queen.

They thought that was great, and really thought it sounded like Spanish. Then I said "Why don't you try. My young friend started right away, and immediately spoke in tongues. His sister who is six could not do it.

Then we pretended to have a conversation in Spanish, with both of us speaking in tongues pretending like we were foriegners.

Now I never did tell him what he was doing, because he is in a situation right now, in regards to the State, that could get us both in hot water over this, with unbelievers.

He's just been taken off head meds in the last 2 months, and if he comes up to his teachers and says he's speaking in tongues, it might not be the best thing.

But eventually when God leads me to I will instruct him. He's always been interested in the power of God anyway, what he called "The Powers".

But ever since he did that that day, I have seen a dramitic change in him.

Friends, the word is so simple even a child need not err therein.

Speaking in tongues is a beautiful simple and easy thing for any believer to operate. EVERY believer since the first century has had the ability.

Friends, just because some people have misused the manifestation, does not make it any less valuable.

Speaking in tongues is what will help build you up so that you can learn to operate the other manifestations of the spirit.

We need these spiritual powers in order to be the overcomers God has called us to be.

I encourage you to try what I have discussed here. After all if you had a million dollars in the bank, wouldn't you utilize it? You already have IT IN YOU, but YOU must in simplicity move your lips, mouth, throat and tongue and bring it forth.

It's SO SIMPLE, that all you have to do is PRETEND to speak in another language, and it will come forth. God meant to make it that simple.

Regards,
El Harris

I know it seems that speaking in tongues is the one "Hot Button" issue that brings great debate in the body, and I am not sure why. To me it should not. The pentecostal experience is so central to the entirety of the New Testament. Everything that Jesus did He did as a man filled with the Holy Spirit. Everything the men and women of the early church did, they did empowered by the Holy Spirit. And, speaking in tongues was a very visible and consistent part of that experience.

I did not share my full testimony about coming into what we can call pentecost or being filled with the Holy Spirit, or the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I will fill you in on the rest of the details.

I was born into pentecost and what is typically called the "Latter Rain" (not to be confused with the latter rain movement) outpouring of the Holy Spirit. My Great Grandparents often spent time in the home of Charles and Sarah Parham. I grew up around people who spoke in tongues regularly, as well as people who lived very seperated lives of holiness that they attributed to a work of the Holy Spirit in their lives. They taught holiness as a result of a seperate and instantaneous work of grace called sanctification. You will find this a common theme among many pentecostal holiness people, who point to the Topeka outpouring as their roots. It was really a Methodist idea that came out of the Cane Ridge revival of the early 1800's, which is where Parham had his roots. I am not sure of it's history before that movement. It was often called the second work, or standing grace.

This sanctification doctrine was taught as the necessary prerequisite to the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. What I found was that I could never in my own power be "sanctified" enough to merit the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. As hard as I tried to give all of my life to the Lord, to sanctify myself wholly unto Him, I always seemed to come a little bit short.

In 1989, I finally understood that the Holy Spirit is not poured out as a reward for a well sanctified life, but is given to give me power to live that sanctified life and to have victory over sin. This freed me to freely receive as it tore down a wall of incorrect doctrine that has stood in the way of my surrendering my own efforts and receiving by faith that which was freely given to me. You would have thought that I had never read the book of Galatians.

Anyway, I simply asked, and received and as I began to thank and praise the Lord, words began to form in my mind that seemed strange. Obviously I knew about speaking in tongues, but the mechanics of it were unknown to me. I simply said what came to my mind, and felt such a flood of the sweet presence of the Spirit of the Lord. I then felt like I wanted to sing (I grew up singing and love to sing). I began to sing in another tongue. Suddenly I realized I was not alone. A young lady next to me was also singing in tongues, the same song, same melody, same words, at the same time. I know now that God orchestrated that song so that I could never talk myself out of the reality of that experience.

I would say that the most powerful thing that the baptism of the Holy Spirit has done in my life has been the power to live the life of a martyr. The power to die to self and live out of the rivers of living water that flow from within. I live a very holy life by the world's, and 99% of the church's standards, but not because I have given myself a list of rules to follow and doggedly follow them in some self powered attempt to "be holy" I simply allow God to work in my the life of His Spirit and do what He prompts me. He brings His Word to life. I read the Bible and the author is right there with me to help me interpret. I see where I fall short from the Word and say, "Yes Lord". He speaks to me in my spirit and soul and says, "I am not pleased with that attitude, etc.", and I say, "Yes Lord." And, even in saying yes Lord, I am learning that apart from the power of the Holy Spirit I can never fulfill what I have said yes to.

I have come to learn that the Holy Spirit is a constant presence in my life. Like power coming form the generation plant, the Holy Spirit is always on. It is me that is on and off. I believe that I may pray in tongues any time I wish. Praise God, I wish to often because when I pray in tongues it is my spirit that prays, and since my born again spirit is in fellowship with the Holy Spirit (something that could not happen when I was not born again), I know that I pray the perfect wisdom of God over a situation. I also pray with my understanding (my own tongue). Both are important in the life of a believer. Either one in absence of the other is incomplete. Not bad, but simply incomplete.

I also believe that the gift of tongues and the interpretation of tongues listed as two of the nine in 1st Corinthians are given severally as God wills. So, I am not free to simply stand and speak in tongues in an assembly unless the Holy Spirit gives me the direction to do so. I personally believe that this was probably the primary confusion that caused Paul to need to teach the Corinthian church on this matter.

El, I know where you stand on the issue. Bro. Tom, I am not sure where you stand on this issue. I don't argue with anyone over it. It is my experience. I am just praising God today for a reminder of His power in me to cause me to live the life that I could not on my own. I praise Him for His constant presence. Jesus is so wonderful. The Holy Spirit of God is so wonderful. My heavenly Father is so wonderful. I just overflow in praise to Him for what He is doing in me. Wow!

Oh, one more thing Brothertom. I do believe that as believers experience pentecost, they will be compelled by the Spirit of God toward lives that exemplify the holiness of God. You are absolutely right in my opinion. Walking close to God WILL yield the peaceable fruit of righteousness which is holiness.

Praise God! God Bless you guys!

Dear Brothertom,

I normally do not comment on threads that touch on speaking in tongues to avoid useless arguments, but I just had to thank you for this statement...

Also, Paul makes a very clear assessment of the exclusivity of the holy right concerning those who may pride in this gift. "Do ALL speak in tongues?", and no, he was not referring to those as of inferior faith that hadn't quite progressed to superior faith. All do not speak in tongues, either by the Prophetic gift of prophesy, or in their prayer language.

I praise God for you and for those like you.

Leo

Thank you again, Brothertom,

This is to live as a martyr would. Pentecost is primarily filled with Holiness and Power, and the Cross as the means to attain Him, as He is exalted, we are diminished. This, and not the manifestation of tongues is the sign of Pentecost.

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

" To remain in the fire, is to allow Christ to live in me, not I.

This is the heart of being a Christian.

hi, what a refreshing, wonderful blog on a subject that could lead to arguements instead of what has been writen.the finished work of Jesus must always be the message and what happens along the way is secondary. God gave me this experience because i am a jerk and needed Him in a way i knew not.thank you all for the civility of your posts.jimp we cannot attain it. He must send it.

Leo, Brother Tom:

I have to say I am blessed by what both of you guys have had to say on this issue. I appreciate the obvious spiritual maturity and Christlike attitude that you guys demonstrate in discussing this issue.

The Holy Spirit is such a integral and vital part of the life of a believer, and if we allow Him to have His way completely(allow God to occupy the only throne in our lives) He will transform us in ways that we cannot fathom. Look at the lives of the twelve original apostles before pentecost and after. What a difference!!! This very same empowerment will change us forever, and continue to change us into His image from glory to glory.

I cannot imagine what it would be like to try to live my life without the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. He is so sweet, so precious. Thank You Lord for not leaving us comfortless, for sending Your Holy Spirit to baptize and indwell us.

Jimp, every one of us desperately need the Holy Spirit dwelling in us and transforming us. That is why He was sent. Take a good look at the word that is translated as comforter (paraklētos). I am not a greek scholar, but this is a compound word. Look at the two parts. Pretty powerful!

Brothertom wrote:
I do not believe that we should seek Pentecost. I think we should seek JESUS!

From the foundation of the world, Jesus coming to earth and becoming the perfect sacrifice (Luke 24.46-47) was always plan A and I also humbly submit that the promise of the Father (being endued with power from on high) was ALWAYS plan A [b]from the beginning of time also[/b]!!

Please hear me out, my heart is not to say that to shame anyone who has not had a Pentecost experience but I say that to ENCOURAGE those who haven't had a Pentecost experience to seek Him and ask the Lord about it because it is there for all those who would ask and wants to receive. I like what Bro Zac Poonen says, “Jesus didn’t say go tarry until you are endued with tongues or knowledge or miracles; no, he said until you be endued with [b]power from on high[/b].” Satan gets us so bogged down on the smallest insignificant details and fighting from different camps that we cannot see the whole picture.

Prov 3:5 says [i]Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. [/i] Do you or I “think” we understand the Scriptures? We are not to lean to our own understanding. I have over analyzed and talked myself out of many things the Lord would have given me because I did in fact lean to my own understanding and start questioning “hath God said?” Just like satan did to Eve in the garden. Has satan done that to anyone reading this about the baptism of the Holy Spirit? Hath God really said…..?

We are living in the latter days, how “latter” I don’t really know but I know we need every ounce of power from on high that is available to us. Re 22:11 [i]He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.[/i] And we need what ever God has for us to make us holier still and righteous still. I'm not saying I'm there but I am saying let's press in and find out what it is!

I have had the privilege of being with four of my Baptist friends since May 15th when they actively sought and received the baptism of the Holy Spirit!! It was four in three months! I live in the Bible belt and that is unheard of! I am grateful to have witnessed this and they are even more grateful to have received. Every one of them has said, “No one told me it would be like this.” I remember the day Jesus came to me and made me His and I remember a year later when I received the promise of the Father BOTH experiences are more precious to me than I can verbalize.

Like I said, I share this only to encourage those who have wondered about the promise of the Father and didn’t have anyone to ask; this was only meant to encourage anyone who wanted to be encouraged, nothing else.

God bless you all!!