Contacting of Ministers before Criticizing their Teachings

Please feel free to delete this (Paul West) if you so please. I'm not trying to cause division, etc.

I do think a good question was brought up and one that is biblical and I'd be interested to get feedback because I know I'm possibly guilty. A few people mentioned that we should contact the person FIRST if we are going to make an accusation against a person based off (matthew 18:15-17). This is especially needful in your local church body. It's more difficult in today's world where Christians have the internet and we do not fellowship in a local church. I do agree that contacting the person first is the biblical thing to do BUT... with some people in reality it's nearly impossible. I can't pick up the phone right now and contact, for example, Joel Osteen, or Rich Warren. And actually I've seen a "discernment ministry" that shared their emails (unanswered to certain ministries) with questions. Joseph Farah of WND had this problem for awhile and Farah is well known.. at least more than me.. Most of the times these calls or emails go unanswered. Understandably, these men have many things to deal with and don't have time to answer every email or phone call. I'm sure some of us in our secular jobs have similar problems.

So how do we respond as Christians? These men have huge ministries and yet have books put out that are very unbiblical. Some have their own shows, and they are guest speakers and do conferences and influence MANY. Not just individuals but churches and even denominations. Personally, I've been part of 2 mega-churches where the teachings of Rick Warren and bill Hybels pretty much destroyed the church. I was involved in the church so I knew about the leadership going to their conferences, etc. Eventually I saw the outcome and had to leave. To this day they are still on the same path and I keep praying for these churches. So is it wrong for me to criticize warren or hybels? I'm sorry, but I don't think whether they do more for Christ should be a determining factor should it? Based on what?

I'm not a "pastor" but in the last 10 years or so, I've felt a responsibility to warn people about these false teachings and some times that includes sharing the false teachers names. I've seen first hand what happens when a church becomes part of Willow Creek Association. And yes, I'm sure people are saved in these churches that are in the WCA but does that mean that God approves of the method and we should not say anything? My wife was saved during a time when she was a covenant partner under Kenneth Copeland. Does that mean Copeland is right on? Not at all.

I do agree we need the right spirit when addressing these things. For me, the scriptures that have helped when considering false teachers is Luke 18:9-14.

[i]9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everybody else, Jesus told this parable: 10 "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.' 13"But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'[/i]

The reason being is that I try to remember to NOT ever compare myself or think of myself as anyone more discerning or spiritual when criticizing someone. The truth is that I'm a wretched sinner in need of His mercy. As some of you know, we sometimes like to criticize others to make ourselves appear more wise, righteous, etc.

So in conclusion, I do believe there is a more pressing need as as shepherd or just a fellow brother in Christ to warn people in these last days if we see someone in danger (Ezekiel 33) but we need the right spirit to do so.

My pastor has mentioned names at times but he does it only to warn the sheep. sometimes a pastor needs to do this because some people will come into the church inviting others to so and so's conference or "revival" or talking about this "great book" they just read. Know what I mean? Should the pastor hold off saying something until he's sent so and so a letter or made a phone call?

I look forward to your feedback. Or like I said, i you think this causes division then feel free to delete. Email me privately if you prefer.

The scriptures in Matthew were dealing with personal offences ("...if thy brother shall trespass against thee..."). However, I believe that you are correct in that false teachers should be confronted about what they are teaching, but if they continue, they should be rejected (see 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15, Titus 3:10). I'm sure that the Joel Osteens and Rick Warrens out there have had plenty more than two admonitions. Because of their pride, they've refused to question their own teachings and scrutinize it by the scriptures. However, I'm betting there are plenty of brothers and sisters out there who have been duped by these guys and have never been confronted by a brother in Christ about these teachings. We should remain patient with these men, that perhaps God will grant them repentance (2 Timothy 2:24-25)

Hi Jeremy and bdcutler...

Yes, I believe that all efforts should be made to contact individuals before we go about pointing fingers of "heresy" or "apostasy." This is not so much as to prevent a "watchman" from exposing the truth...as it is to gain clarity for any remark or idea that might have been misconstrued, badly communicated or misunderstood.

bdcutler wrote:
I'm sure that the Joel Osteens and Rick Warrens out there have had plenty more than two admonitions.

I certainly think that we should "cry out" against false doctrine. However, I can't help but wonder if people are confusing "gossip" and "libel" with the duty of a "watchman?" We can certainly disagree with a pastor about doctrine. However, it is an entirely different matter to publicly call such a man an "apostate."

What harm can be done if someone goes through the trouble to VERIFY, TEST or allow for CLARITY before someone takes it upon themselves to call out someone as an "apostate?" I learned a long time ago that there is often "another side" of many (if not [i]most[/i]) stories.

hello chris,
while I agree we should verify things, there are a number of teachers today where its unquestionable that their teachings are dangerous. It's in their books, websites, and they have stated it several times over. In other words, it's not a question of hearing the other side or getting the proper context. In those instances, I think we need to warn people that are deceived or possibly being lead astray.. ...If the Spirit leads.

I do agree that we should be careful before using those "heresy" and "apostate" terms though.. It all depends upon the teaching in question.

Thanks again for the feedback.

I look forward to your feedback.

However, I found myself increasingly bitter and judgmental throughout it all. I found that the more people I condemned to the proverbial heretic's stake, the more would then appear, and it became easier and easier each time to pronounce judgment on the next batch.

As I embarked upon my self-imposed heretic-rebuking fest, I found my own walk with Christ and devotion begin to wane. I noticed that I stopped hearing the still, quiet voice of God speak into my life. I was going so full-charge into battle with warning and rebuking that I couldn't hear the voice of my own Captain when He began to warn and rebuke [i]me[/i]. One day, however, I heard a clear trumpet call that I've never forgotten:

[i]"Leave them alone"[/i]

I heard that every tree my Father didn't plant would one day be uprooted; and that the blind following the blind would both fall into the same ditch. These were the words of the Captain, and I decided to follow Him in this instruction. I saw that while on earth, my Captain mentioned no names, never went on a tirade or a diversion against one particular person. He spoke instead against general hypocrisy, the hypocrisy of the scribes and pharisees, and to beware of their leaven. He didn't mention the individual religious leaders in detail with specifics of their character or ministry that caused them to be damned. Even if you notice with Judas Iscariot, Christ never mentioned his name as the betrayer of the Son of Man publically.

I chose to obey what I read and follow what I noticed as a pattern in Christ's ministry. It seemed He never had time to write any letters to the Sannhedrin or to the Herodians or scribes and lawyers -- He was too busy ministering to the sick and mute and blind and maimed and preaching the Kingdom to the poor to write a letter to those who were bent on scattering instead of gathering. In fact, when brought before them, He never even opened His mouth to either justify His ministry or rebuke theirs.

So I too stopped publically rebuking others, and writing letters of criticism to ministries I had no business meddling with. When I spoke to other believers about these things, all God told me was to warn others not to follow them, and "not to do as they do", and I have found time and time again this to be totally sufficient. If we are careful to walk before God with a clear conscience and in a spirit of humility and meekness, the Holy Spirit will lend power and authority to our admonitions and warnings which will automatically vindicate the truth...and confirm that which is false without us so much as lifting a finger or launching into a vitriolic tirade.

I hope you pray about what I've written here. It will save you from alot of headaches and embarrasment and further your growth into hearing the finer whisperings of God's voice to your spirit.

Yours,

Brother Paul

Dear Brothers in Christ,

Please allow me to add to this discussion. It is very important nowadays to be, not only discerning of the teachings of others, but also to be openly critical, if necessary, in order to warn those who would otherwise be led down the wrong path. However, there is also a danger of possibly being so careless in our approach that we may cause even more harm than good.

Scripture gives us two basic things we must do before we start criticizing someone else or his/her teachings:

The first is - we must search ourselves, our own sinfulness and our own motives. JCGarc55 said:

The reason being is that I try to remember to NOT ever compare myself or think of myself as anyone more discerning or spiritual when criticizing someone. The truth is that I'm a wretched sinner in need of His mercy. As some of you know, we sometimes like to criticize others to make ourselves appear more wise, righteous, etc.

So in conclusion, I do believe there is a more pressing need as as shepherd or just a fellow brother in Christ to warn people in these last days if we see someone in danger (Ezekiel 33) but we need the right spirit to do so.

Mt 7:3-5 [color=CC3300]“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye."[/color]

[b]We must be right before God before we attempt to correct others.[/b]

Second, we must determine whether the point to be argued is a clear and essential aspect of our faith that can and must be set right. [b]If the matter is non-essential, or if Scripture is unclear about it, then argument is pointless.[/b]

Ro 14:1-10 "Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. One man’s faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat."

[b]All too often, heated arguments occur among brothers concerning peripheral matters of practice, or of doctrine, or of experience that really need not be discussed. Such things should be ignored, and we should stand united regarding the more important things we have in common.

I believe if we apply the two steps given us by scripture before questioning others, there will be a lot less to fight about.[/b]

Personally I think the danger is when folk get so consumed with dealing with heresy, etc., that they miss what God is truly calling them to do. I look on (as I'm sure many of us do) and see the barrage of criticism going that some folk seem to be constantly doing and I wonder, "Hmmm, are they doing anything 'else' in the name of the Lord?" I mean, are they relieving the afflicted and ministering to the saints, etc?

I have a hard time dealing with folk that seem only to be a denouncer. We need doctrine and we need correction; but in many cases folk need to have established themselves in love within the body of Christ. I guess I have taken on heresy as much as anyone and share Paul and others concerns; but God help us to see Christ leading us also in the edifying of the saints. If all one does is reprove and rebuke it is hard to see any edification there.

I have two things...

First, I used to go to a church where the pastor lied to me about three different things but it wasn't lying to him. He told me that he told me what I wanted to hear. My closest friends know this and I know that I know if they went to him to ask him about it, he would turn it completely around to be all my fault. That was my only point, that some pastors will never state the truth TRUTH, only their version of it.

Secondly, I don't know if this will help or not but this morning the Lord gave me a verse to help me (concerning an acquaintance)...

[i][b]Give your servant therefore an understanding heart to judge your people, that I may discern between good and evil[/b]; for who is able to judge this your great people?[/i] 1 Kings 3.9

I want this to be my prayer for me when dealing with any child of living God.

God bless

Hi Jeremy...

JCGarc55 wrote: hello chris, while I agree we should verify things, there are a number of teachers today where its unquestionable that their teachings are dangerous. It's in their books, websites, and they have stated it several times over. In other words, it's not a question of hearing the other side or getting the proper context. In those instances, I think we need to warn people that are deceived or possibly being lead astray.. ...If the Spirit leads.

Unfortunately, the internet is filled with websites that go a step further than just stating the obvious. Rather than basing their words on something that is indisputable, these “watchmen” use their personal liberty to hurl accusations that are mostly based upon personal judgment derived from circumstantial reasoning.

As a teenager, I fellowshipped with a congregation that had several people who claimed to have the ministry of“discernment.”There was a very sincere man in the church who I liked to talk with. He was noticeably into the things of God (if that makes sense). He was excited, and loved to share his faith with others. Within a year of having moved to town, this man became a Sunday School teacher. In fact, his wife became a Sunday School teacher for younger children. However, he disagreed with some of the “discernment” folks about a few things. This caused them to question his ability to “hear God.” This friction was weird because the disagreement was over some silly issue.

One day, one of the “discerners” actually saw this brother coming out of a bar in a bad side of town. Within a week, word spread that this brother was seen coming out of a bar. Within two weeks, people were meeting with the pastor to discuss this brother’s lack of leadership to merit teaching Sunday School. Within a month, the gossip had gotten very carried away. The brother decided to step down from teaching Sunday School. A few months later, he accepted a transfer to another location. No one had bothered to ask him about all of this. One day, I was driving past that same bar. Sure enough, there was this brother outside. However, he had his Bible in his hand and was praying for a man.

I think that we need to be extremely careful about just which accusations we make publicly (especially if one desires to be a "watchman"). It would be a sad condition to be right about such a man (that he preaches false doctrines) but guilty of bearing false witness against the same man by making a false or misleading accusation.

In other words, we should strive to tell the truth...and nothing more than the truth.
:-)

Great post Paul West. Wisdom is there that only experience can teach.

[i]I hope you pray about what I've written here. It will save you from alot of headaches and embarrasment and further your growth into hearing the finer whisperings of God's voice to your spirit. [/i]

Amen and thank you for the advice. The difficult thing for me has been that I constantly come in contact with people who are affected by this seeker sensitive / church growth movement. [i]Even when I go on vacation[/i], I run into people who are influenced by it. I also hear from Christian folks that are scratching their heads. It seems there are so many that don't know what's happening.. Over and over I hear from Christians and they are asking what is happening to their church where once upon a time, the Spirit would move on hearts? 99% of the time, their church has joined the Willow Creek Association. It's so sad. I share with them of course what I know regarding the free "field tested" sermons that are given out, the skits, etc...I've sent some people to this forum so they can download some good Wilkerson, Ravenhill, etc. sermons and get fed. I also give them TSC CD and DVDs. But yeah, many are famished these days.

So anyways..please pray for me. I really don't want to have the wrong spirit. I also don't want to be a coward either if God opens the door for me to share. I understand that as Christians we must contend for the faith. Amen and may God bless each of us with wisdom.

[i]Falling Away to the Antichrist! [/i]

Excellent message. That was one of the first messages I heard way back in the 90s that opened my eyes as to what was happening. There's another one that Wilkerson preached called "Seven Women Shall Lay Hold of One Man" that is also excellent on this issue. Anyone have the mp3 for that one? Also "The Passionate Bride" is a favorite of mine too.

ccchhhrrriiisss wrote:

bdcutler wrote: I'm sure that the Joel Osteens and Rick Warrens out there have had plenty more than two admonitions.

How would someone know that this is true unless they actually contacted the accused?

What these men preach is no secret; many have been vocal in pointing out that these men are not preaching the Gospel of Christ (this is also no secret).

In Galatians 1:6-9, Paul calls anybody who preaches any other gospel than the one delivered to them accursed. Notice that Paul is not judging the motives, but the message. Even if angel from heaven preaches another gospel, let him be accursed. What about a really nice guy who's sincere in his teaching? Paul makes it explicit, if any teach another gospel, than the Gospel which they received, let him be accursed. Again, we are to reject a heretic who does not repent (Titus 3:10). Certainly, someone, who is teaching another gospel than the one Paul preached is a heretic (a follower of false doctrine), because another gospel is a false gospel.

So, what is the gospel that Paul preached? In Acts 20:20-21, we read that he preached: "...repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ." If anybody preaches any other means of salvation (which includes freedom from sin), other than this Gospel is preaching another gospel. If it's adding to this or taking away, it's another gospel. The Galatians were being taught another gospel, because they were being taught that their perfection was through the works of the law, and not faith in Christ (Galatians 3:1-3). These are clearly the teachers that inspired Paul to write what he did in chapter 1.

Notice in contrast what Paul says about preachers of the Gospel in Philippians 1:15-18. Regardless of their inward motivations, he rejoices whenever Christ is preached. This is true judgment. Instead of judging the motives of the heart (which Christ indeed warned about), we should judge the message being preached. How many times, when we hear a preacher of the true gospel, do we judge their motives? Yet, we refuse to judge a message as a false gospel simply because the preacher appears to be sincere.

So anyways..please pray for me. I really don't want to have the wrong spirit. I also don't want to be a coward either if God opens the door for me to share. I understand that as Christians we must contend for the faith. Amen and may God bless each of us with wisdom.

He kept is mouth shut and everyone, including the Procurator of Judea, marvelled. I tell you, people will also marvel if you will desist in joining in with all the popular heresy hunting and preacher critiquing going on these days. Modern Christianity is full of criticism: one group criticizing another, arguing over words and doctrine. One side says the other is Babylon, and the other side calls its accusers "legalists". It's never ending, it engenders perpetual conflict like a bad soap opera, and whoever indulges in it suffers in their walk.

There is a time to rebuke and a time to keep silent. Most of the rebukes you see in this forum - I'll say 99% of them - are done in the wrong spirit and out of season. The truth is, people are not content with God in their own walks due to various reasons (i.e. defiled conscience, unrepentant sin, hurt pride, unforgivenenss, etc.) and so they have no peace with God. Because of the lack of peace, they cannot be edified by things and topics that are lovely, noble, of good repute, full of charity and devotion, gentleness, kindness, peaceable to the soul, born of meekness, etc. These things are not conducive to their turbulent spiritual condition, and so they are drawn to fault-find and meddle in other men's affairs and ministries that rub them the wrong way. Since misery loves company, they relish in publishing their attacks in public forums in the form of libel and slander.

The thing is, however, many of their criticisms are correct and true! They may have the correct doctrine and their rebukes are foundationed on scripture and healthy theology; sadly, though, all this is often negated through a fleshy rebuke and a spirit of contention. The correction itself is true, but the spirit in which it is done is false, and thus God does not accept it; He does not anoint it or put His authority behind it...and all it ever accomplishes is the furtherance of more strife and contention.

As for me, I would rather be labeled a coward by other believers and accused as one who does not stand zealously for truth - and keep the anointing of God upon my life and ministry - than join the popular rebuking crowd of critiquing believers and lose God's anointing upon my life and ministry. The truth is that God very seldom calls us to publically rebuke another man. Most of what we see and the letters we read are but the spoiled fruit of believers out of touch with God and expressing what is only natural to them.

Brother Paul

Hi bdcutler...

What these men preach is no secret; many have been vocal in pointing out that these men are not preaching the Gospel of Christ (this is also no secret).

Rick Warren appears to be WAY OFF in regard to some of his doctrine and many of his methods. However, it is another thing altogether to accuse the man of "[i]working feverishly to create a one world religion[/i]" or "[i]one world government[/i]." While someone might try to make such a claim based upon what they see as "circumstantial evidence," I think that in such cases that it is better to confirm such a claim by contacting the man himself (or those who work with the man).

In other words, we need to make sure that our accusations are based upon truth and not any sort of prejudicial "conspiracy sleuthing" and then call it "discernment." I don't listen to Rick Warren because of reasons that are obvious to me. I don't need to accuse him (or entertain accusations) about his supposed involvement in some sort of "one world" conspiracy. I think that, in regard to this accusation, it would be best to contact the man himself.

A few years ago, a well-meaning person on SermonIndex was making claims about David Wilkerson. This person made claims that David Wilkerson no longer believed in a "pre-tribulation" rapture. As a result, I actually contacted his ministry and his church. I was quickly sent an email from Pastor Neil Rhodes in regard to the matter. In other words, I "tested" the claims of this particular person.

Now, while I am not a fan of Rick Warren and disagree with quite a few of his views, I have been tempted to try and contact the man or his ministry in order to see what THEY have to say about some of the accusations. I would probably still disagree with those things that are obvious (at least, obvious to [i]me[/i] and my understanding of the Word) flaws in his doctrinal views or methods. However, it would be interesting to see what he has to say about other accusations (like the "one world" insinuations).

Brother Paul West, I agree with what you are saying. I think that there is quite a bit of wisdom in such an approach.

:-)

Please forgive this diversion from the topic. I have taught high school math both in public and private high schools in California, and I couldn't help noticing what Jesus-is-God said....

I ask you: What would happen if I went into the streets, rounded up all the kids who were skipping school, and asked them, "What kind of school would you like? I'll build one that you'll enjoy, just so you'll want to come." Those kids would answer: "We want a school that lasts only three days a week - and just two hours a day! We want no algebra, no calculus and no science. And we want lunch from noon to two, with nothing but pizza and snacks. There won't be any lectures, rules or grades. And we'll be able to come and go as we please." If I followed through on that, I would have the biggest school in New York, with every dropout in sight. But what would happen to those kids ten years down the road, without any real preparation for living?

Let us pray that our churches will turn away from this humanistic trend of becoming man-pleasers, back to the true purpose of being God-pleasers.

In Christ's Love,
Leo

"There is a time to rebuke and a time to keep silent. Most of the rebukes you see in this forum - I'll say 99% of them - are done in the wrong spirit and out of season."

Brother Paul,

I couldn't agree with you more, and I have been in that 99% at times, and I believe that I have given a rebuke before that I believed to be the truth, but I did it in anger, so it wasn't done in the right spirit. Everytime that I have ever done this, the Lord has dealt with me about it.

Many years ago I was in a Church where there was a pastor that was very dominant and controlling. He was a good friend of mine, but we had our disagreements and even had some words, and I was ready to leave that church. I believed that I had every right to do this, but everytime that I would pray about it, the thing that I always came away with was that I was not leaving in the right spirit, and that the Lord would not be pleased until my heart was right towards that pastor before I left that church.

I believe that most of the time that the Lord shows us some fault or error in a brother or sister that it is for the purpose of us taking it to God in prayer. Even if we are led to go directly to the one in fault, it should always be done in the spirit of meekness with the purpose of restoration in mind.

The chastisements of God towards His children are always for the purpose of restoration and not for destruction.

Mike

I have been in that 99% at times, and I believe that I have given a rebuke before that I believed to be the truth, but I did it in anger, so it wasn't done in the right spirit. Everytime that I have ever done this, the Lord has dealt with me about it.

I had no stirring in my spirit over the "other gospel" the man preached; I had no inclination to grieve over his probable demise and over those who followed him, heading into the ditch. What right did I have then to lambast? To defame, to rebuke and torch? My heart simply wasn't right, though in my head I [i]knew[/i] he was preaching another gospel and leading millions astray.

It suddenly became a heart issue each time one of these heretic threads emerged, and I discovered that the verve to publically flay these men went away. It became sufficient instead to warn without condemning; I saw myself instead as a witness in court and not the judge. God sent His Son into the world not to condemn, and therefore God also sent me to SermonIndex not to condemn. The blind leading the blind both fall into the ditch irrespective of anonymous forum diatribes.

That all took place a few years ago, and I lost some friends because I've refused to take sides or support one camp over another. I just want to be on the Lord's side. I have also found that God honors those who honor Him, and if you humble yourself He will for sure exalt you in due time. The secret is in not giving up doing good before the harvest. If we are careful to keep a good, clear conscience and walk in the humility of what we know the Lord expects from us, He will show Himself mighty in our lives.

We also find that the more we submit to the leading of the Holy Spirit, the more peaceable our lives become...and the more insight God lends us to see the compassion and longsuffering He has for all men. As we continue to look unto Jesus we learn these things, and much more, as we become more and more fashioned into His image.

Brother Paul

[i]As for me, I would rather be labeled a coward by other believers and accused as one who does not stand zealously for truth - and keep the anointing of God upon my life and ministry - than join the popular rebuking crowd of critiquing believers and lose God's anointing upon my life and ministry[/i]

Thanks again Paul. I really appreciate your feedback. I see that we've all experienced the Lord's loving rebuke in these matters. Like I shared earlier, the Luke 18 one was the one that hit me pretty hard because I began to 'thank the Lord that i wasn't deceived like them other people' rather than seeing myself still as the wretched sinner that needs mercy.

In regards to being a coward, I was thinking more in terms of God's view and my fearing man's rejection, etc. Some of these opportunities have happened with people that are close to me so that makes it even more difficult.

Your point about not being worried about being labeled a coward is good though. I hadn't thought of it that way.